Why don't you believe in God?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs who say there is no evidence God exists, and that they believe in science rather than God:

What if science IS the evidence God exists? What kind of evidence would you prefer?

"What if?" is a hypothesis, not proof.

Agreed. PP's idea is a sloppy ball of mush. Frankly, the reason people believe in God is that (in 99% of cases) their parents believed in God. We internalize what our parents tell us. That's why indoctrination of children is such a desperate project for most religions.

I don't believe in God because a) outside of folks who were indoctrinated at an early age, it's not the "default" position; so b) it just doesn't come up much. There's zero evidence for it, and there's zero evidence that "god's" existence has any intersection with our own, so why should I care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see the modern faithful as people who are scared, and want to have hope that this isn't all there is.

No, that's not it. That's a reasonable hypothesis, but lots of us don't need an afterlife to make us feel safe. Plenty of Christians have lived in perpetual fear of hell, the kind that keeps them up at night. For others, faith is a burden, a responsibility that we'd rather not have. And don't forget Catholic guilt. Trust me, most people do not go around thinking they are great and have a free ride to heaven.

[Anonymous]

15:48 and 15:42 You both speak to me, except you are better at expressing yourselves. I fall somewhere between in that I want to believe in God, was raised an agnostic, have attended church off and on since I had kids, but really don't get the need to be part of an organized religion. Not sure about the Jesus thing. I think the bible is an amazingly powerful (influencial to those who believe it's the word of God) book considering it was written by people who only had their primitive knowledge of the world (wouldn't "God" have clued them in better if he in fact spoke to them?), or in the case of the new testament, it was written decades, if not centuries after the fact. That lends itself to tremendous distortion, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a non-religious family - wasn't part of our lives at all, though I did go to church a handful of times with friends over the years. I think adopting a faith as an adult is fairly difficult - I suppose I like the notion of a church community and the comfort that religious beliefs give to others, but not having grown up with religion in my life it seems like I'd have to really set a lot of logic aside to go there at this point in my life. I also second the above PP - my marriage isn't broken, not depressed, not overwhelmed by my kids. You can have a happy life without following a particular faith.

Absolutely. Religious belief can actually be likened to a virus crossed with a genetic disorder. It's self-replicating, but also passed on from parent from child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would be curious to hear what you think of the responses. Not your response to them, in religious terms, but what you now think of why some people do not believe.

I find the responses fascinating.

I sense a lot of apathy, though apathy might be too strong of a word. More a non-issue.

Faith in science as an alternative to faith in God. But what does "science" mean in that context?

I spotted several misunderstandings and logical lapses (a couple were already noted).

A lack of necessity. People feel they are doing well on their own.

The most curious response is the one that is most underrepresented: a direct repudiation of known arguments FOR the existence of God. We have thousands of years of discussion about God, and very little of it has come up so far. Is it a lack of a sense of history, philosophy, theology?

Again, please keep the conversation going! These direct, personal positions are exactly what I hoped to elicit. No one could revisit all of human history in a posting. What leaps to the forefront of your own, unique mind?

[Anonymous]

I clicked on this thread expecting a lot of backlash against non-believers and ended up dumbfounded at the number and thoughtfulness of responses. I am so heartened to see this as I have often thought I am the only non-believer in the room. I've been an atheist since 11 or 12 after I got my hands on the newly published Cosmos by Carl Sagan. It pushed me over the edge from mere skepticism of my parents' religion (and resulting self-righteousness) to openly expressing my belief in science versus religion. My parents have never gotten over this and we haven't had a relationship in over 20 years. That's right, they chose a religion over a child. While that may have made me hostile toward religion, I am not. I have never found a need that has not been met by a secular source but I am teaching my children about all of the world's major religions while constantly underlining that they must choose a belief system for themselves, that no one can tell them what to believe (my other main issue with religion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been reading DCUM for a while now, and I feel steeped in broken marriages, angry/depressed/overwhelmed parents, misbehaving children, and general snarkiness. Almost never do I see a reference to a deep and profound faith, or even a thought about a Creator. I do see plenty of snide comments about faith being only for the stupid, the weak, the unthinking, but I can't recall a single specific reason as to why belief in a Creator is so obviously dumb.

So now is your chance: if you do not believe in God, why not? Have you wrestled with this question and constructed a tight argument, or do you just not particularly care?

I don't believe in God for a variety of reasons, but really, the bolded part makes it simple. I don't have to make a tight argument to prove something is not. Philosophically and scientifically, it is near impossible to try to prove a negative. The argument needs to be made [i]for God, not against him. So until I see Jesus' face in my toast, I don't believe just because others do.

[Anonymous]

I just cannot believe in something that seems so far-fetched to me. I am too logical, maybe?

And I know this is different, but it does affect my thinking: I am so turned off by overtly, in-your-face religious people, or people who do terrible things in the name of religion, that I think I subconsciously have no desire to be associated with religion in any kind of way.

I have many close friends, coworkers, and family members who are devoutly religious, and I respect that. I just don't do it myself. Most of these people (almost all, actually) have no idea I'm an atheist. It's just something I keep to myself.

[Anonymous]

OP, the problem for me with the arguments for the existence of God, whether from philosophy or science/intelligent design, is that none of them prove the existence of God as a logical matter and none of them prove existence as a factual matter. (They don't disprove him of course but as someone without faith, the burden of proof is not mine). If the arguments work for someone, I assume they speak to a kernel of faith the person already has. If you believe in God, I don't doubt you can see him in the beauty of the Earth. But if you do not believe, the beauty of the Earth does not compel you to believe.

[Anonymous]

I was raised evangelical. We went to church 3 times a week, my parents held weekly bible studies with friends, we went to Christian schools, etc. Then, something awful happened. I saw the world differently. The idea of a loving and protecting god was gone. Then, on a challenge from a high school teacher, I read the entire bible. I could not reconcile the Old Testament god with the New Testament god and found some of the morality appalling. Who was this god and why was he such an asshole? I spent the next few years pondering it and science and decided that, given the available information, I don't think there is a god. And, even if the bible has identified the right god, he's too morally devoid for me to follow/worship. If he exists, he's not loving or compassionate. There would be no real reason for evil, disease or destruction. No good parent would torment their children to see if they still loved them. That's just wrong. If he could beat all that is evil, WTF is he waiting for?

[Anonymous]

"If he could beat all that is evil, WTF is he waiting for?"

The answer you are usually given is that God allows free will. But the general consensus is that the Christian god is all knowing, all loving, and all powerful. Logically, he can't be all three, so one has to give. Then the whole house of cards begins to fall.

[Anonymous]

Because it's like believing in mythology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:.

The most curious response is the one that is most underrepresented: a direct repudiation of known arguments FOR the existence of God. We have thousands of years of discussion about God, and very little of it has come up so far. Is it a lack of a sense of history, philosophy, theology?

I think this is the rub. The discussions mean little to me in a faith sense because I don't believe the premise. There is nothing there to refute, it's all a matter of belief. I think you have to have some belief or question about the premise in order to take it seriously. I do, however, find the history and development of religion to be fascinating.

And, how to sift through all of it? Which arguments for the existance of God merit discussion and which, really, are just out of left field? I'm sure you don't mean God on toast or crying statues. The existence of the Bible doesn't add much to the argument. The discussions about God are just that - circular talk. Meeting the threshold of a credible argument for someone who doesn't believe is extremely high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I clicked on this thread expecting a lot of backlash against non-believers and ended up dumbfounded at the number and thoughtfulness of responses.

It's amazing the responses you can get when you ask in an open and respectful manner (eg not "If you don't believe in God, why don't you eat your children?!?")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because it's like believing in mythology.

Remove the "like" in your sentence, and you've nailed it.