Articles are completely useless in the English language, grammar police where are you to weigh in?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Of all the things to complain about the English language, you pick.........articles?

Most ESL people complain about articles in English. Yet, is there a need for them? If you pause and think about it without being defensive, what is really gained by the use of articles? Sure, it sounds right, but useless to the meaning.

But they're not useless. They add meaning. So there's a need for them.

Ok, what meaning do they add? Outside elementary ESL classroom examples?

I gave you an example up thread of a medical case report: THE patient experienced acute vomiting and vertigo vs A patient tends to present with dyspnea.

Ok, sure, but we know we are talking about a patient, no? When will you ever say, A patient other than teaching a class, in which case, patient is just as good? Be it THE or A.

I have no idea what this word salad is supposed to mean. I'm talking about writing a case report. And yes, teaching a class, because that's what I do. And I need my articles in Enlgish to communicate my information clearly. I can't leave room to interpretation..- it's life or death.

Give me THE Epinephrine! Vs give me An Epinephrine dose!! One means it is a specific object that has the medication ready to go. The other means you need to draw it up. Seconds count in a code.

Attacking instead of answering, plus if you have that much trouble understanding my sentence well, you can't understand much of anything! If you said epinephrine it would result in the same action.

No you don't understand what I meant by a case report. The point of an article like this is differentiating between THE patient vs A typical patient with the same condition.

And I hope you will never run my code if you think saying "Epinephrine" is precise enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of all the things to complain about the English language, you pick.........articles?

Most ESL people complain about articles in English. Yet, is there a need for them? If you pause and think about it without being defensive, what is really gained by the use of articles? Sure, it sounds right, but useless to the meaning.

But they're not useless. They add meaning. So there's a need for them.

Ok, what meaning do they add? Outside elementary ESL classroom examples?

I gave you an example up thread of a medical case report: THE patient experienced acute vomiting and vertigo vs A patient tends to present with dyspnea.

Ok, sure, but we know we are talking about a patient, no? When will you ever say, A patient other than teaching a class, in which case, patient is just as good? Be it THE or A.

I have no idea what this word salad is supposed to mean. I'm talking about writing a case report. And yes, teaching a class, because that's what I do. And I need my articles in Enlgish to communicate my information clearly. I can't leave room to interpretation..- it's life or death.

Give me THE Epinephrine! Vs give me An Epinephrine dose!! One means it is a specific object that has the medication ready to go. The other means you need to draw it up. Seconds count in a code.

Attacking instead of answering, plus if you have that much trouble understanding my sentence well, you can't understand much of anything! If you said epinephrine it would result in the same action.

No you don't understand what I meant by a case report. The point of an article like this is differentiating between THE patient vs A typical patient with the same condition.

And I hope you will never run my code if you think saying "Epinephrine" is precise enough.

LOL! What if your aid is from another country and doesn't know how to sue the article? Fired? How will it makes any difference to the dose or shot or anything? Please explain better to a moron like me.

[Anonymous]

https://amj.amegroups.com/article/view/4743/html

Hear ya go, OP. An entire article from a medical journal about how important proper use of the indefinite and definite article are in English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://amj.amegroups.com/article/view/4743/html

Hear ya go, OP. An entire article from a medical journal about how important proper use of the indefinite and definite article are in English.

And yet this is why they are necessary? From your article:
The three written articles are the most commonly used words in the English language, so it is critical that a writer must master them. They are essential for four reasons. One, because when the misuse of an article occurs, it can have a significant impact on the meaning of the sentence. Two, articles indicate a particular viewpoint of a noun, so misusing them will leave the readers confused and frustrated, trying to figure out what the author is trying to say. Three, articles are understood by all native English speakers, so when the misuse occurs, an editor will notice. Four, getting articles incorrect, could potentially harm a writer’s academic image as an author and it could result in the research work and manuscript not being taken seriously if the mistakes are big enough.
Really? Confused about what they are trying to say? As if they are that stupid?
And then their example is a slang phrase "the bomb" vs a bomb that explodes? That is used how often in medical speech? And then they add, that it might impact the standing of a professional?
But, the example in a medical sentence they gave is legit. That is definitely a great example that an article can change the meaning of a sentence. That is what I was looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://amj.amegroups.com/article/view/4743/html

Hear ya go, OP. An entire article from a medical journal about how important proper use of the indefinite and definite article are in English.

And yet this is why they are necessary? From your article:
The three written articles are the most commonly used words in the English language, so it is critical that a writer must master them. They are essential for four reasons. One, because when the misuse of an article occurs, it can have a significant impact on the meaning of the sentence. Two, articles indicate a particular viewpoint of a noun, so misusing them will leave the readers confused and frustrated, trying to figure out what the author is trying to say. Three, articles are understood by all native English speakers, so when the misuse occurs, an editor will notice. Four, getting articles incorrect, could potentially harm a writer’s academic image as an author and it could result in the research work and manuscript not being taken seriously if the mistakes are big enough.
Really? Confused about what they are trying to say? As if they are that stupid?
And then their example is a slang phrase "the bomb" vs a bomb that explodes? That is used how often in medical speech? And then they add, that it might impact the standing of a professional?
But, the example in a medical sentence they gave is legit. That is definitely a great example that an article can change the meaning of a sentence. That is what I was looking for.

Read the whole article not just the Abstract for more examplea

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://amj.amegroups.com/article/view/4743/html

Hear ya go, OP. An entire article from a medical journal about how important proper use of the indefinite and definite article are in English.

And yet this is why they are necessary? From your article:
The three written articles are the most commonly used words in the English language, so it is critical that a writer must master them. They are essential for four reasons. One, because when the misuse of an article occurs, it can have a significant impact on the meaning of the sentence. Two, articles indicate a particular viewpoint of a noun, so misusing them will leave the readers confused and frustrated, trying to figure out what the author is trying to say. Three, articles are understood by all native English speakers, so when the misuse occurs, an editor will notice. Four, getting articles incorrect, could potentially harm a writer’s academic image as an author and it could result in the research work and manuscript not being taken seriously if the mistakes are big enough.
Really? Confused about what they are trying to say? As if they are that stupid?
And then their example is a slang phrase "the bomb" vs a bomb that explodes? That is used how often in medical speech? And then they add, that it might impact the standing of a professional?
But, the example in a medical sentence they gave is legit. That is definitely a great example that an article can change the meaning of a sentence. That is what I was looking for.

Read the whole article not just the Abstract for more examplea

I will. Have to rush away now. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic of this thread is wrong. First, articles are not completely useless. The definite article serves to refer to a specific object, only meaningful in context. If you examine an isolated sentence, articles seem useless. They serve no purpose without surrounding context. Can you work around them? Yes. For example, you wrote, "the English language" when you could write just English. BTW, that's a curious usage for a non-native speaker attempting to be reductionist. Weigh in is another curious idiomatic usage that's generally not taught because it's a poor construct.

Every language has poor constructs, for sure. Yet, articles are used so often, and often are useless. If I write a paper stating... Jack's results show that he suffers from anemia. (detail results here) The results show that he needs to improve his intake of..
Sure, I know I am referring to specific Jack's results, no? Superficial.
Can you give an example of where it helps with the meaning? In a longer passage?

"The results" means Jack's specific results. Just saying "results" could mean any results from anywhere. Repeatedly writing Jack's results in the text would be irritating.

[Anonymous]

When I read a sentence without articles, I say it in a Russian accent in my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between "the" and "a." Look at these two sentences:

1) The boy is running down the street.
2) A boy is running down the street.

In #1 you know it is a specific boy, one who within the context of the paragraph has been identified. In #2 you only know that some random boy is running down the street.

Not much difference, though, and who is ever saying that other than English teachers? To teach how to use a useless article. When did you hear that sentence in actual use? I know this boy or a random boy is running? You are never going to use it that way, ever. Useless.

Well, why not communicate like cave people, i.e., "me hungry?" "Me done?"

Or, write using proper English.

"A Falls Church boy was found today lost in the woods. The boy had been missing for five days."

As a PP explained, you introduce the person or thing using "a" or "an." After the introduction, you use "the."

Consider incorrect English:

"The Falls Church boy was found today."

"The" boy? Is he famous? Should I already know about THE boy?

On that note, I'm not "a" DCUM. I am THE DCUM. THE one. ha!

[Anonymous]

And yet most people in the world probably speak languages without articles and get by just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between "the" and "a." Look at these two sentences:

1) The boy is running down the street.
2) A boy is running down the street.

In #1 you know it is a specific boy, one who within the context of the paragraph has been identified. In #2 you only know that some random boy is running down the street.

Not much difference, though, and who is ever saying that other than English teachers? To teach how to use a useless article. When did you hear that sentence in actual use? I know this boy or a random boy is running? You are never going to use it that way, ever. Useless.

Well, why not communicate like cave people, i.e., "me hungry?" "Me done?"

Or, write using proper English.

"A Falls Church boy was found today lost in the woods. The boy had been missing for five days."

As a PP explained, you introduce the person or thing using "a" or "an." After the introduction, you use "the."

Consider incorrect English:

"The Falls Church boy was found today."

"The" boy? Is he famous? Should I already know about THE boy?

On that note, I'm not "a" DCUM. I am THE DCUM. THE one. ha!

Superfluous use, at best. Your examples are only showing that in most cases articles are useless for the meaning of the sentence. Like in that sentence I just typed. However, one smart pp showed me examples of when they do matter. You would likely not even get a job with VIPKID with that great "knowledge" of English!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet most people in the world probably speak languages without articles and get by just fine.

Exactly. I think we can all agree that perhaps the mix of French and German and old whatever they spoke before. I think some believe that old "English" prototype-speaking people were in central Europe, Greece, the Balkans, Turkey. But, that is a very common pattern of migration for many tribes. Yet, for some reason, people here are offended when you ask a simple question, that has nothing to do with impugning their "honor."
In the meantime, plenty pps mock immigrants, think they are stupid, and can't understand them if they don't speak hoity-toity English!
I have never seen a group of people, other than the French, who pretend like they have no clue what you just wrote bcs you were not 100% grammatically correct. On dcum! They feel free to actually insults pps for "word salads," when in fact the meaning of what was written is clear to 3-year-olds!

[Anonymous]

OP, you aren't very bright, are you? I'm sure your caveman English is perfectly adequate for someone of your station and needs, but be grateful that there are others capable of thinking at a higher level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP are you a foreigner? I feel like only non native speakers have these arguments. Articles just sound better.

I remember there was some island in sociology class that we learned about. They brought two languages together and didn't have grammar rules. By the next generation, grammar had developed.

Yes, I am from another country. I am not disrupting that article just sounds better. I am saying I don't see any need for them. Grammar develops all the time. Grammatical gender is used in many languages, for example. Does that make English still a simple, not yet developed language compared to other languages with more complicated rules? Articles in English do not even determine gender.
I really think that the use of articles in English is superficial, a remnant of some French/German structures, and absolutely irrelevant in understanding the meaning.

Your English is functional, but you miss a lot of nuance and higher level meaning. You sound so foolish and uninformed, bleating repeatedly over people who have mastered English at a level you cannot and will not, that you know best. Just shut up and accept that you don't know as much as you thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bison

And if you just said: bison.
You would know exactly what you mean, and everyone would know it too.

No, stupid. The PP's point, which you missed because your English isn't very good, is that "bison" can be either singular or plural. "A bison" means one bison. Just saying "bison" can mean any number of bison; removing the article removes the precision of indicating a singular item only here.