Upper elementary at a Title 1 school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give you the view of a White parent who's committed to going all the way through Title I schools with both kids, one is already in middle school now.

Background re: lens to view me through: people would probably call me woke, liberal, not focused on "what's best for my child." Both parents work white collar jobs with moderate-high income, making us overall higher income than many of our neighbors who send their kids to the local DCPS.

The Choice Regime is real. At every grade kids leave. The ones most likely to leave are the flaky status-conscious White people. You know who. But it does include every type of family. And it generally only ratchets one direction - people don't go to a "desired" school then come back to Title I schools.

There is the kind of general expectation that the Title I families move less and that the upper quartile-income families increasingly leave. It's noticeable in 4th grade probably most for families who are moving for in-boundary fancy schools, either outside DC or in Ward 3, and moreso before 5th grade when kids disappear to go to the 5th-grade-starting-charters which are all higher status than the local middle school.

There is a belief that the kids aren't challenged who are able to test above average for the school. That's only true if you think that the teachers can't engage your kid in material that they don't have fully secure or keep them interested with side work. Judge that on the evidence, in my opinion, rather than assuming your child is a genius surrounded by drooling incipient criminals. And the teachers generally can offer side things to do if your kid is advancing unevenly, as is the case for our older kid - good at some subjects, way ahead in others, this kid was always engaged and had friends in elementary school.

If you think that in schools in Ward 3 or high-status PCS your kids are somehow going to get way beyond the basic scope and sequence for DCPS you're probably wrong. If they're real real smart and you're able to check that out and verify they're going to get pushed, good on you. Otherwise, I just think being engaged in a Title I school is all you need.

My opinion is based on my being raised in a really heterogeneous school as a child with kids basically sorting themselves out based on how engaged THEY were and THEIR level of effort. I think the idea that the parents have to sort the kids in advance of schooling to get good outcomes from their kids is just not true. I believe that that is not true, but not what commonly is done by people of "our class" and of course, as I mentioned, I'm some kind of radical liberal by DC standards.

But let me just say this - if you take my views skeptically - and you should - please also do the same for those views who say you need to "move for the schools" or that it's bad to be an "only" in DCPS or even more bluntly (but not publicly) that White kids are not challenged in schools where they are surrounded by black or Hispanic children and teachers "cater to the lowest common denominator."

All the best, enjoy your children's schooling and your time in DC.

This is a great comment and I think I would like this person, as Ive found that I really like the higher-income people who have stuck around our Title 1 past preK.

People definitely leave every year and that is a bummer for my kids. However, the people who leave tend to be, as this PP mentioned, status-conscious. The people who stay are just awesome -- they have confidence in their kids, they are comfortable being a racial minority as a white person, they are almost universally super smart (maybe this is why they have confidence in their kids.) the cohort of families who are sticking with our school for the duration are just awesome, and my kid is very bonded to those friends.

Well, yeah. It's a lot easier to be satisfied with a school if your kid is doing well, on or above grade level, no major concerns. Much harder to stay confident if your child is falling behind and it may or may not be due to the school.

Ya. so maybe the upper-income Title 1 families are thoe who know that their kids will thrive anywhere. I've definitely noticed that at ours. but to be honest I love having that group as our cohort.

How does this play out for smart kids with special needs who are atypical learners? Or high-income minority/non-white kids?

It is easy to be confident if you are solidly the most advantaged people in a society (no special needs, white, high income).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

OP, I wish you well. I really do. But when we attended a similar school for ECE I thought the same thing, and there were actually a lot of things that legitimately made people want to leave the school. Disorganization. Incompetent front office staff. Some teachers great, others intensely strict and vindictive. For advanced kids, differentiation was playing math games on a computer. 95% of the kids were sweet and charming and well-behaved, but it only takes one kid with a serious behavior problem to disrupt the classroom all day ever day. A really really screwed up Instructional Superintendent and weird policy things from downtown. And most of all, a terrible middle school feeder. I'm glad you've had a nice 6 weeks of Kindergarten, but there's a lot you haven't experienced yet, and a lot of things that you may care more about later that you aren't really engaging with now. It's racism, but it isn't *just* racism. The shortcomings of DCPS are real and those of us who want DCPS to succeed must face the issues and work to address them.

-Low performing peer groups. PP is totally right about the computer games used as differentiation
- Academics geared towards mastering basics which kids are lacking. Very hard to develop critical thinking skills and problem solving when you don’t have the basic foundation down. This is why there are so many worksheets at the school, beginning as early as in ECE. Endless worksheets.
-Disruptive classrooms - can happen at any school but much more prevalent at title 1 school (trauma, abuse, food/housing insecurity, neglect, etc, etc..)
-Poor general communication from school, if you are lucky to get any
-Disorganization
-authoritarian style teachers
- skeleton PTA if any
- little, if any, parent involvement at the school, difficult to recruit parent volunteers or needed chaperones for things
- no clubs/after school enrichment or minimal with minimal family participation
- poor resources and the inability to raise money to be able to address it
- principal and admin are so focused on the needs of these kids (academic, social, emotional) that there is no room for any other ides or suggestions. They also spend a large portion of their day putting out fires.
- majority lower class families values and interests don’t align with yours

Middle and UMC families who stay love to use the racism card as the reason families leave but it’s a host of factors as PP above says, the problems above are real. Above are few things that comes to mind but far from the only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

OP, I wish you well. I really do. But when we attended a similar school for ECE I thought the same thing, and there were actually a lot of things that legitimately made people want to leave the school. Disorganization. Incompetent front office staff. Some teachers great, others intensely strict and vindictive. For advanced kids, differentiation was playing math games on a computer. 95% of the kids were sweet and charming and well-behaved, but it only takes one kid with a serious behavior problem to disrupt the classroom all day ever day. A really really screwed up Instructional Superintendent and weird policy things from downtown. And most of all, a terrible middle school feeder. I'm glad you've had a nice 6 weeks of Kindergarten, but there's a lot you haven't experienced yet, and a lot of things that you may care more about later that you aren't really engaging with now. It's racism, but it isn't *just* racism. The shortcomings of DCPS are real and those of us who want DCPS to succeed must face the issues and work to address them.

-Low performing peer groups. PP is totally right about the computer games used as differentiation
- Academics geared towards mastering basics which kids are lacking. Very hard to develop critical thinking skills and problem solving when you don’t have the basic foundation down. This is why there are so many worksheets at the school, beginning as early as in ECE. Endless worksheets.
-Disruptive classrooms - can happen at any school but much more prevalent at title 1 school (trauma, abuse, food/housing insecurity, neglect, etc, etc..)
-Poor general communication from school, if you are lucky to get any
-Disorganization
-authoritarian style teachers
- skeleton PTA if any
- little, if any, parent involvement at the school, difficult to recruit parent volunteers or needed chaperones for things
- no clubs/after school enrichment or minimal with minimal family participation
- poor resources and the inability to raise money to be able to address it
- principal and admin are so focused on the needs of these kids (academic, social, emotional) that there is no room for any other ides or suggestions. They also spend a large portion of their day putting out fires.
- majority lower class families values and interests don’t align with yours

Middle and UMC families who stay love to use the racism card as the reason families leave but it’s a host of factors as PP above says, the problems above are real. Above are few things that comes to mind but far from the only.

Yup. Now, not all schools have all of these problems. And you can certainly have a good experience, especially if you enjoy this kind of volunteer work and your child is on or above grade level with no significant special needs. But all of these problems are real, real, real. And it doesn't have to be this way! DCPS-- the adults in charge of it-- are the problem here. Not the kids.

Academic stuff
- Focus on ELA and math, science and social studies are an afterthought
- High-performing kids may find themselves a group of one, it's possible to spend time in higher grade classrooms but at a certain point that's not developmentally appropriate. May be okay academically but it's not very fun for the kid.
- Poor student retention among students of all incomes. Lower-income families may struggle with housing costs/stability. This means that the teachers have to start with new kids every year. Great teaching can happen, but it doesn't compound over time because so many of this year's 3rd graders are a different bunch of kids than last year's 2nd graders.


PTA stuff:
- It's fun at first but after a while you just burn out. Not enough people, so you feel like you have to do a lot of work even though you don't want to.
- PTA dominated by clueless preschool parents who focus on preschool quality of life issues and are oblivious to upper grade concerns. Their cluelessness alienates other parents at the school, the staff, and the principal. It's an uphill battle to convince them to care, because they aren't planning to stay.


Cultural differences:
- When I first got involved 5+ years ago, waaaaaay too much Christian holiday decorations and obliviousness to other religions' holidays.
- Intractable refusal to provide outdoor play. Constant evasion and a different excuse every day. "Indoor recess" on a beautiful day just because they happen to feel like it.
- Sugary treats used for every celebration and to manage behavior, perplexity why this wouldn't be okay. Donating better snacks makes no difference.


Most frustrating of all, many of the problems stem from the central office.
- Mediocre or even terrible principals and APs forced on you from downtown (parent input into principal selection is a carefully crafted illusion)
- Downtown overriding your principal's budget and management decisions.
- Bad teachers force-placed into your school.
- Self-contained classrooms are overcrowded because so many schools refuse to have them.
- Not enough spots in free/subsidized aftercare, no subsidized before-care, that puts parents off.

And, last but not least, self-righteous wokies who have been at the school for 5 minutes, don't really do any work, and love to scold other people for recognizing that these problems are real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

OP, I wish you well. I really do. But when we attended a similar school for ECE I thought the same thing, and there were actually a lot of things that legitimately made people want to leave the school. Disorganization. Incompetent front office staff. Some teachers great, others intensely strict and vindictive. For advanced kids, differentiation was playing math games on a computer. 95% of the kids were sweet and charming and well-behaved, but it only takes one kid with a serious behavior problem to disrupt the classroom all day ever day. A really really screwed up Instructional Superintendent and weird policy things from downtown. And most of all, a terrible middle school feeder. I'm glad you've had a nice 6 weeks of Kindergarten, but there's a lot you haven't experienced yet, and a lot of things that you may care more about later that you aren't really engaging with now. It's racism, but it isn't *just* racism. The shortcomings of DCPS are real and those of us who want DCPS to succeed must face the issues and work to address them.

it's all tangled though. my kids have been at a title 1 for many years and are thriving, and I've had many hours over conversations over the years with parents who moved and parents who stayed. the ones who were racist never said "we are racist and that's why we are leaving" they found many excuses to look for other problems within the school -- *even when their kids were clearly thriving*. the ones who have stayed did not.

I have found that the people most okay with this type of school are also the peoe who are planning to move out of DC regardless, and tend to have bright children without significant special needs. It's one thing to be okay with a low performing school when your kid is doing well. Not when your kid isn't, for any reason.

Part of this is that DCPS can differentiate better than almost every charter in the city. So if your child is brighter than the advanced group at the charter, but not quite MCPS magnet material (or you don’t think that environment would be good for them), then often a DCPS, even a Title 1, is the only option for meeting your child where they are. Maybe they’ll be a group of one, but for some kids that’s better than being bored and getting into trouble in another school’s small group.

This is hilarious. PP is living in an alternate reality. Your child who you think is so bright and smarter than the other kids in your low performing school will be just average in a higher performing school in DCPS or at a charter. He will not be at the top of the class.

It’s all relative and obvious PP doesn’t get out of her title 1 DCPS bubble.

This. What on earth are you talking about, PP? DCPS differentiation isn't that great. And what on earth makes you think your child is really that bright? The advanced kids at our HRCS are very, very bright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

OP, I wish you well. I really do. But when we attended a similar school for ECE I thought the same thing, and there were actually a lot of things that legitimately made people want to leave the school. Disorganization. Incompetent front office staff. Some teachers great, others intensely strict and vindictive. For advanced kids, differentiation was playing math games on a computer. 95% of the kids were sweet and charming and well-behaved, but it only takes one kid with a serious behavior problem to disrupt the classroom all day ever day. A really really screwed up Instructional Superintendent and weird policy things from downtown. And most of all, a terrible middle school feeder. I'm glad you've had a nice 6 weeks of Kindergarten, but there's a lot you haven't experienced yet, and a lot of things that you may care more about later that you aren't really engaging with now. It's racism, but it isn't *just* racism. The shortcomings of DCPS are real and those of us who want DCPS to succeed must face the issues and work to address them.

it's all tangled though. my kids have been at a title 1 for many years and are thriving, and I've had many hours over conversations over the years with parents who moved and parents who stayed. the ones who were racist never said "we are racist and that's why we are leaving" they found many excuses to look for other problems within the school -- *even when their kids were clearly thriving*. the ones who have stayed did not.

I have found that the people most okay with this type of school are also the peoe who are planning to move out of DC regardless, and tend to have bright children without significant special needs. It's one thing to be okay with a low performing school when your kid is doing well. Not when your kid isn't, for any reason.

Part of this is that DCPS can differentiate better than almost every charter in the city. So if your child is brighter than the advanced group at the charter, but not quite MCPS magnet material (or you don’t think that environment would be good for them), then often a DCPS, even a Title 1, is the only option for meeting your child where they are. Maybe they’ll be a group of one, but for some kids that’s better than being bored and getting into trouble in another school’s small group.

This is hilarious. PP is living in an alternate reality. Your child who you think is so bright and smarter than the other kids in your low performing school will be just average in a higher performing school in DCPS or at a charter. He will not be at the top of the class.

It’s all relative and obvious PP doesn’t get out of her title 1 DCPS bubble.

This. What on earth are you talking about, PP? DCPS differentiation isn't that great. And what on earth makes you think your child is really that bright? The advanced kids at our HRCS are very, very bright.

I'm speaking from experience. We left DCPS for a HRCS and the differentiation at the charter was definitely a step down. So we did the CogAT privately and are now looking at MCPS and FCPS. DC, DCPS or charter, is just a good fit for our family's needs. But DCPS made more of an effort and had more resources in place compared to the "one size fits all" approach that seems more normal at the HRCS. Your experience may differ, and I'm sure it's very much school dependent.

[Anonymous]

** just NOT a good fit for our family's needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

Accusing everyone else but themselves of racism but then saying the Black and Brown kids are "well spoken" -- the classic condescending compliment that white people use toward Black and Brown people and only Black and Brown people -- is quite a flex.

Let's be honest here: no white person has ever described another white person as "well spoken."

I bet PP has "a lot of Black friends," too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

OP, I wish you well. I really do. But when we attended a similar school for ECE I thought the same thing, and there were actually a lot of things that legitimately made people want to leave the school. Disorganization. Incompetent front office staff. Some teachers great, others intensely strict and vindictive. For advanced kids, differentiation was playing math games on a computer. 95% of the kids were sweet and charming and well-behaved, but it only takes one kid with a serious behavior problem to disrupt the classroom all day ever day. A really really screwed up Instructional Superintendent and weird policy things from downtown. And most of all, a terrible middle school feeder. I'm glad you've had a nice 6 weeks of Kindergarten, but there's a lot you haven't experienced yet, and a lot of things that you may care more about later that you aren't really engaging with now. It's racism, but it isn't *just* racism. The shortcomings of DCPS are real and those of us who want DCPS to succeed must face the issues and work to address them.

-Low performing peer groups. PP is totally right about the computer games used as differentiation
- Academics geared towards mastering basics which kids are lacking. Very hard to develop critical thinking skills and problem solving when you don’t have the basic foundation down. This is why there are so many worksheets at the school, beginning as early as in ECE. Endless worksheets.
-Disruptive classrooms - can happen at any school but much more prevalent at title 1 school (trauma, abuse, food/housing insecurity, neglect, etc, etc..)
-Poor general communication from school, if you are lucky to get any
-Disorganization
-authoritarian style teachers
- skeleton PTA if any
- little, if any, parent involvement at the school, difficult to recruit parent volunteers or needed chaperones for things
- no clubs/after school enrichment or minimal with minimal family participation
- poor resources and the inability to raise money to be able to address it
- principal and admin are so focused on the needs of these kids (academic, social, emotional) that there is no room for any other ides or suggestions. They also spend a large portion of their day putting out fires.
- majority lower class families values and interests don’t align with yours

Middle and UMC families who stay love to use the racism card as the reason families leave but it’s a host of factors as PP above says, the problems above are real. Above are few things that comes to mind but far from the only.

Yup. Now, not all schools have all of these problems. And you can certainly have a good experience, especially if you enjoy this kind of volunteer work and your child is on or above grade level with no significant special needs. But all of these problems are real, real, real. And it doesn't have to be this way! DCPS-- the adults in charge of it-- are the problem here. Not the kids.

Academic stuff
- Focus on ELA and math, science and social studies are an afterthought
- High-performing kids may find themselves a group of one, it's possible to spend time in higher grade classrooms but at a certain point that's not developmentally appropriate. May be okay academically but it's not very fun for the kid.
- Poor student retention among students of all incomes. Lower-income families may struggle with housing costs/stability. This means that the teachers have to start with new kids every year. Great teaching can happen, but it doesn't compound over time because so many of this year's 3rd graders are a different bunch of kids than last year's 2nd graders.


PTA stuff:
- It's fun at first but after a while you just burn out. Not enough people, so you feel like you have to do a lot of work even though you don't want to.
- PTA dominated by clueless preschool parents who focus on preschool quality of life issues and are oblivious to upper grade concerns. Their cluelessness alienates other parents at the school, the staff, and the principal. It's an uphill battle to convince them to care, because they aren't planning to stay.


Cultural differences:
- When I first got involved 5+ years ago, waaaaaay too much Christian holiday decorations and obliviousness to other religions' holidays.
- Intractable refusal to provide outdoor play. Constant evasion and a different excuse every day. "Indoor recess" on a beautiful day just because they happen to feel like it.
- Sugary treats used for every celebration and to manage behavior, perplexity why this wouldn't be okay. Donating better snacks makes no difference.


Most frustrating of all, many of the problems stem from the central office.
- Mediocre or even terrible principals and APs forced on you from downtown (parent input into principal selection is a carefully crafted illusion)
- Downtown overriding your principal's budget and management decisions.
- Bad teachers force-placed into your school.
- Self-contained classrooms are overcrowded because so many schools refuse to have them.
- Not enough spots in free/subsidized aftercare, no subsidized before-care, that puts parents off.

And, last but not least, self-righteous wokies who have been at the school for 5 minutes, don't really do any work, and love to scold other people for recognizing that these problems are real.

PP. I hear you. A friend of mine sent her child to her title 1 IB school. She was so motivated and enthusiastic to help the school. She and a few parents put in so much time and energy into just basic things the school didn’t have which we take for granted. It wasn’t even extras or enrichment or events. As the to needs of the kids, it’s overwhelming.

Long story short, she totally burned out. Left her IB and her child is now at a HRCS.

We got lucky in the lottery and got our top choice HRCS for preK 3. Although I didn’t send DC to our IB title 1 school, I had some time and wanted to help the school. So I joined the PTA there although my child did not go there and everyone was OK with it. It was basically 4 parents, myself, and the librarian. No matter what type of outreach we did, we could not increase membership. Did 1 fundraiser and raised about $1000. I suggested ideas for a bigger event to raise money, suggested to solicit funds from organizations, etc.. but they just couldn’t imagine that scale and was resistant even though I said I could organize. We also couldn’t get anymore parents to join or volunteer for anything.

Contrast that to our HRCS. Robust PTA, had 2 month giving campaign and just asked families for funds once a year and easily got over 6 figures. They also organized an dinner/drinks evening gala, with donations from businesses in the community. and raised another 6 figure plus. Had numerous other events to build community, raise money from Fall fest to Thanksgiving party, to Xmas party, to spring fest, etc…

When parents in the classroom was asked to volunteer and chaperones these big field trips, it was ultra-competitive and the sign up list filled within 1/2 hour of email going out. Weekly newsletter from the teachers, monthly newsletter from the school, responsive leadership and returned emails within 24-48 hours. School had a ton of great after school clubs and enrichment to choose from for aftercare - it wasn’t just babysitting.

I could go on and on about the differences. It was night and day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

Accusing everyone else but themselves of racism but then saying the Black and Brown kids are "well spoken" -- the classic condescending compliment that white people use toward Black and Brown people and only Black and Brown people -- is quite a flex.

Let's be honest here: no white person has ever described another white person as "well spoken."

I bet PP has "a lot of Black friends," too.

OP here. No, you misunderstood and my apologies if I was speaking unclearly. Absolutely not all of those big kids I referred to are black and brown, and it's not ONLY the white or ONLY the black and brown kids that seem bright and well spoken from what I've seen so far. Any kid that wants to chat your ear off about a topic that interests them is "well spoken" to me, yes even the white kids. Because I'm not talking about adults, I'm talking about kids. And some kids can hold a conversation with an adult better than others. But the point is that the claim that the achievement gap gets huge in second grade and your advanced child will be in a small group of one doesn't seem inevitable based on the older kids that are at the school now. But whatever small groups we end up in, it's highly unlikely it will be a cohort of white kids at the top and not white kids below, like I've heard about in other schools. And that's a good thing for all kids, not just mine.

But I get the defensiveness and assumptions and why people want to attack me. When we were lotterying I assumed we'd end up at a charter like all of our neighbors. And if we had gotten into a small handful of charters easily, we probably would have. But when we saw what our options were, we really dug down and looked past the waitlist numbers and overall PARCC scores, and were surprised that the school that seemed to fit best was one that most people would turn down for other options. That's why I started this thread months ago, and it's been very helpful. People have mixed experiences depending on their school, the available alternatives, and their child. It's not one size fits all, but just like not all HRCS are created equal, neither are all DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

Accusing everyone else but themselves of racism but then saying the Black and Brown kids are "well spoken" -- the classic condescending compliment that white people use toward Black and Brown people and only Black and Brown people -- is quite a flex.

Let's be honest here: no white person has ever described another white person as "well spoken."

I bet PP has "a lot of Black friends," too.

+1 how is she going to be a racist if her kids play with brown kids?/s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

Accusing everyone else but themselves of racism but then saying the Black and Brown kids are "well spoken" -- the classic condescending compliment that white people use toward Black and Brown people and only Black and Brown people -- is quite a flex.

Let's be honest here: no white person has ever described another white person as "well spoken."

I bet PP has "a lot of Black friends," too.

OP here. No, you misunderstood and my apologies if I was speaking unclearly. Absolutely not all of those big kids I referred to are black and brown, and it's not ONLY the white or ONLY the black and brown kids that seem bright and well spoken from what I've seen so far. Any kid that wants to chat your ear off about a topic that interests them is "well spoken" to me, yes even the white kids. Because I'm not talking about adults, I'm talking about kids. And some kids can hold a conversation with an adult better than others. But the point is that the claim that the achievement gap gets huge in second grade and your advanced child will be in a small group of one doesn't seem inevitable based on the older kids that are at the school now. But whatever small groups we end up in, it's highly unlikely it will be a cohort of white kids at the top and not white kids below, like I've heard about in other schools. And that's a good thing for all kids, not just mine.

But I get the defensiveness and assumptions and why people want to attack me. When we were lotterying I assumed we'd end up at a charter like all of our neighbors. And if we had gotten into a small handful of charters easily, we probably would have. But when we saw what our options were, we really dug down and looked past the waitlist numbers and overall PARCC scores, and were surprised that the school that seemed to fit best was one that most people would turn down for other options. That's why I started this thread months ago, and it's been very helpful. People have mixed experiences depending on their school, the available alternatives, and their child. It's not one size fits all, but just like not all HRCS are created equal, neither are all DCPS.

It starts to be a big gap in 2nd grade. It grows and grows, partly because of higher achieving kids leaving and lower achieving kids coming in. HRCS tend to have a similar growing gap, but because they have more high scoring kids, there is still an academic peer group for everyone.

OP, just try to give it more than a few weeks before deciding that anyone who doesn't love your school is a racist, ok? There's a lot you don't know about DCPS as a K parent. A lot you don't see yet. But you will, in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

Accusing everyone else but themselves of racism but then saying the Black and Brown kids are "well spoken" -- the classic condescending compliment that white people use toward Black and Brown people and only Black and Brown people -- is quite a flex.

Let's be honest here: no white person has ever described another white person as "well spoken."

I bet PP has "a lot of Black friends," too.

People describe my white only child as "well spoken" often. I notice it because I HATE it because they say it with a shocked tone of voice and usually follow up with something like, "that's such a surprise for an only child because only children are usually so ...." Clearly it's not my favorite phrase, but I think people use it differently for children than from adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

OP, I wish you well. I really do. But when we attended a similar school for ECE I thought the same thing, and there were actually a lot of things that legitimately made people want to leave the school. Disorganization. Incompetent front office staff. Some teachers great, others intensely strict and vindictive. For advanced kids, differentiation was playing math games on a computer. 95% of the kids were sweet and charming and well-behaved, but it only takes one kid with a serious behavior problem to disrupt the classroom all day ever day. A really really screwed up Instructional Superintendent and weird policy things from downtown. And most of all, a terrible middle school feeder. I'm glad you've had a nice 6 weeks of Kindergarten, but there's a lot you haven't experienced yet, and a lot of things that you may care more about later that you aren't really engaging with now. It's racism, but it isn't *just* racism. The shortcomings of DCPS are real and those of us who want DCPS to succeed must face the issues and work to address them.

-Low performing peer groups. PP is totally right about the computer games used as differentiation
- Academics geared towards mastering basics which kids are lacking. Very hard to develop critical thinking skills and problem solving when you don’t have the basic foundation down. This is why there are so many worksheets at the school, beginning as early as in ECE. Endless worksheets.
-Disruptive classrooms - can happen at any school but much more prevalent at title 1 school (trauma, abuse, food/housing insecurity, neglect, etc, etc..)
-Poor general communication from school, if you are lucky to get any
-Disorganization
-authoritarian style teachers
- skeleton PTA if any
- little, if any, parent involvement at the school, difficult to recruit parent volunteers or needed chaperones for things
- no clubs/after school enrichment or minimal with minimal family participation
- poor resources and the inability to raise money to be able to address it
- principal and admin are so focused on the needs of these kids (academic, social, emotional) that there is no room for any other ides or suggestions. They also spend a large portion of their day putting out fires.
- majority lower class families values and interests don’t align with yours

Middle and UMC families who stay love to use the racism card as the reason families leave but it’s a host of factors as PP above says, the problems above are real. Above are few things that comes to mind but far from the only.

Yup. Now, not all schools have all of these problems. And you can certainly have a good experience, especially if you enjoy this kind of volunteer work and your child is on or above grade level with no significant special needs. But all of these problems are real, real, real. And it doesn't have to be this way! DCPS-- the adults in charge of it-- are the problem here. Not the kids.

Academic stuff
- Focus on ELA and math, science and social studies are an afterthought
- High-performing kids may find themselves a group of one, it's possible to spend time in higher grade classrooms but at a certain point that's not developmentally appropriate. May be okay academically but it's not very fun for the kid.
- Poor student retention among students of all incomes. Lower-income families may struggle with housing costs/stability. This means that the teachers have to start with new kids every year. Great teaching can happen, but it doesn't compound over time because so many of this year's 3rd graders are a different bunch of kids than last year's 2nd graders.


PTA stuff:
- It's fun at first but after a while you just burn out. Not enough people, so you feel like you have to do a lot of work even though you don't want to.
- PTA dominated by clueless preschool parents who focus on preschool quality of life issues and are oblivious to upper grade concerns. Their cluelessness alienates other parents at the school, the staff, and the principal. It's an uphill battle to convince them to care, because they aren't planning to stay.


Cultural differences:
- When I first got involved 5+ years ago, waaaaaay too much Christian holiday decorations and obliviousness to other religions' holidays.
- Intractable refusal to provide outdoor play. Constant evasion and a different excuse every day. "Indoor recess" on a beautiful day just because they happen to feel like it.
- Sugary treats used for every celebration and to manage behavior, perplexity why this wouldn't be okay. Donating better snacks makes no difference.


Most frustrating of all, many of the problems stem from the central office.
- Mediocre or even terrible principals and APs forced on you from downtown (parent input into principal selection is a carefully crafted illusion)
- Downtown overriding your principal's budget and management decisions.
- Bad teachers force-placed into your school.
- Self-contained classrooms are overcrowded because so many schools refuse to have them.
- Not enough spots in free/subsidized aftercare, no subsidized before-care, that puts parents off.

And, last but not least, self-righteous wokies who have been at the school for 5 minutes, don't really do any work, and love to scold other people for recognizing that these problems are real.

PP. I hear you. A friend of mine sent her child to her title 1 IB school. She was so motivated and enthusiastic to help the school. She and a few parents put in so much time and energy into just basic things the school didn’t have which we take for granted. It wasn’t even extras or enrichment or events. As the to needs of the kids, it’s overwhelming.

Long story short, she totally burned out. Left her IB and her child is now at a HRCS.

We got lucky in the lottery and got our top choice HRCS for preK 3. Although I didn’t send DC to our IB title 1 school, I had some time and wanted to help the school. So I joined the PTA there although my child did not go there and everyone was OK with it. It was basically 4 parents, myself, and the librarian. No matter what type of outreach we did, we could not increase membership. Did 1 fundraiser and raised about $1000. I suggested ideas for a bigger event to raise money, suggested to solicit funds from organizations, etc.. but they just couldn’t imagine that scale and was resistant even though I said I could organize. We also couldn’t get anymore parents to join or volunteer for anything.

Contrast that to our HRCS. Robust PTA, had 2 month giving campaign and just asked families for funds once a year and easily got over 6 figures. They also organized an dinner/drinks evening gala, with donations from businesses in the community. and raised another 6 figure plus. Had numerous other events to build community, raise money from Fall fest to Thanksgiving party, to Xmas party, to spring fest, etc…

When parents in the classroom was asked to volunteer and chaperones these big field trips, it was ultra-competitive and the sign up list filled within 1/2 hour of email going out. Weekly newsletter from the teachers, monthly newsletter from the school, responsive leadership and returned emails within 24-48 hours. School had a ton of great after school clubs and enrichment to choose from for aftercare - it wasn’t just babysitting.

I could go on and on about the differences. It was night and day.

I've totally been that mom. I know the fundraising looks pathetic. But in that kind of situation, you have to remember a lot of the things the PTA obtains are in-kind. The Kennedy Center's Get On The Bus program, for example, is 50 tickets to a show, plus lunch, plus charter bus transportation from school and back. Valuable? Yes! Dollar amount, no. Home Depot will give you materials. Harris Teeter will give you food. Parents tend to donate directly to their classroom teacher e.g. by buying printer cartridges or something. Teachers ask parents directly if they need something. And if that's working well for the school, there's no reason to run things through the PTA. And if the PTA doesn't yet have insurance or a 501(c)(3) application or generally the ability to comfortably handle larger amounts, then it's best to set that as a goal but not start doing it right away. Grantwriting takes time and expertise, and programs like Harris Teeter or Amazon Smile require paperwork and a 501(c)(3) number. So in my first year, we didn't raise much and I was fine with that. I spent my time and energy laying the groundwork for future fundraising. It isn't a good thing in a gentrifying school to come swooping in with a lot of money, it makes people uncomfortable.

Also, not all of the "fundraisers" have as their primary goal to make money. Our school used to do a bake sale at various events. Super fun. Everyone loved it. The kids are cute, they're baking, they're doing math. We'd raise like $200, maybe a net loss if you count the value of the ingredients. But it got community attention to our school, DC's were thrilled to participate, and we did get a little cash. "Fall Fest" is really a party to build community and any minor fundraising from sale of shirts or whatever is a bonus, not the primary goal.

[Anonymous]

we have hit the wall in third grade at our Title 1. Teachers seem pretty checked out. THe stuff kid is doing seems like stuff that was covered in first grade.
General low expectations ("kids have an entire month to get math worksheets complete).
Really frustrated by lack of afterschool activtiies, clubs, sports.
pushback from admins and PTA to not change the "culture" of school...meaning upper SES parents need to stay out of the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We changed our older child from a title 1 dcps dual language to oyster adams in 4th. The difference was mostly in a more prepared and (wealthy) peer group. Teaching in core subjects was equally strong in both schools, but the specials were much better at oyster adams. The kids’ behavior was not much better, but academically the kids were much stronger at Adams.

Thank you. How do you think the difference in academic strength translated into a different experience for your child? Do you mind sharing which school you switched from?

Bump (DP)

Are you still deciding or already regretting your decision?

OP here. Actually we’re at the Title 1 and I’m convinced it’s mostly racism scaring people away. They look at a playground of brown kids and assume they’re below grade level and misbehaved. They’re not. The games the big kids play with the little kids are adorable and sweet, and all of the 3rd-4th graders I know (classmates siblings and kids from activities) seem bright and are certainly well spoken. I understand not all Title 1 schools are created equal, but I’m happy my child has the experience of seeing kids that don’t look like her being leaders and doing better in some things than her. Those are life lessons that really can change how a person interacts with the world going forward.

Accusing everyone else but themselves of racism but then saying the Black and Brown kids are "well spoken" -- the classic condescending compliment that white people use toward Black and Brown people and only Black and Brown people -- is quite a flex.

Let's be honest here: no white person has ever described another white person as "well spoken."

I bet PP has "a lot of Black friends," too.

OP here. No, you misunderstood and my apologies if I was speaking unclearly. Absolutely not all of those big kids I referred to are black and brown, and it's not ONLY the white or ONLY the black and brown kids that seem bright and well spoken from what I've seen so far. Any kid that wants to chat your ear off about a topic that interests them is "well spoken" to me, yes even the white kids. Because I'm not talking about adults, I'm talking about kids. And some kids can hold a conversation with an adult better than others. But the point is that the claim that the achievement gap gets huge in second grade and your advanced child will be in a small group of one doesn't seem inevitable based on the older kids that are at the school now. But whatever small groups we end up in, it's highly unlikely it will be a cohort of white kids at the top and not white kids below, like I've heard about in other schools. And that's a good thing for all kids, not just mine.

But I get the defensiveness and assumptions and why people want to attack me. When we were lotterying I assumed we'd end up at a charter like all of our neighbors. And if we had gotten into a small handful of charters easily, we probably would have. But when we saw what our options were, we really dug down and looked past the waitlist numbers and overall PARCC scores, and were surprised that the school that seemed to fit best was one that most people would turn down for other options. That's why I started this thread months ago, and it's been very helpful. People have mixed experiences depending on their school, the available alternatives, and their child. It's not one size fits all, but just like not all HRCS are created equal, neither are all DCPS.

You literally said nearly everyone who doesn't make the same decision you did is a racist while using the coded language white-racists-who-don't-want-to-be-seen-as-racist have been using for decades.

I really don't think you get it at all. You need some serious self-awareness.