FCPS decline

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

If a school is so heavily low SES that it doesn't even have one class for students ready to take on more challenging materials (and that's quite unlikely at the MS or HS level), I'd say the parents should have known what they were getting. That should not be a reason to frustrate the progress of students at other schools. Otherwise everything is being geared to the lowest possible denominator.

Yes, those lower middle class and working class families should have thought about this before they bought a house in Mount Vernon instead of McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

If a school is so heavily low SES that it doesn't even have one class for students ready to take on more challenging materials (and that's quite unlikely at the MS or HS level), I'd say the parents should have known what they were getting. That should not be a reason to frustrate the progress of students at other schools. Otherwise everything is being geared to the lowest possible denominator.

Yes, those lower middle class and working class families should have thought about this before they bought a house in Mount Vernon instead of McLean.

If education were their priority they'd be renting an apartment to get into a McLean school rather than buying a house in Mount Vernon.

But I doubt you're sticking up for the lower middle class families. It's usually the MC/UMC families at the low SES schools with buyer's remorse who want to hold others back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

If a school is so heavily low SES that it doesn't even have one class for students ready to take on more challenging materials (and that's quite unlikely at the MS or HS level), I'd say the parents should have known what they were getting. That should not be a reason to frustrate the progress of students at other schools. Otherwise everything is being geared to the lowest possible denominator.

Yes, those lower middle class and working class families should have thought about this before they bought a house in Mount Vernon instead of McLean.

If education were their priority they'd be renting an apartment to get into a McLean school rather than buying a house in Mount Vernon.

But I doubt you're sticking up for the lower middle class families. It's usually the MC/UMC families at the low SES schools with buyer's remorse who want to hold others back.

or those parents could have the audacity to expect that public schools in the same county will have the same standards and follow the same curriculum- you know crazy ideas like that

[Anonymous]

Diversity and equity in FCPS = intense focus on lower SES/ESOL. Everyone else be damned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we're adding to the wish list of things we'd like FCPS to do better in ES, could we please add spelling to the list? They don't teach it, which absolutely floored me when I finally realized that this year. My 2nd grader has never had a spelling test. I'd have to hire a reading tutor because my kid is behind and the tutor is helping her with spelling. It's insane.

You know as a parent that you can help them with their spelling as well, correct?

Go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Diversity and equity in FCPS = intense focus on lower SES/ESOL. Everyone else be damned.

not totally, they expanded level IV past gifted so that more parents would stop complaining about the lack of education. Of course, this made gen ed worse resulting in more complaints

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

If a school is so heavily low SES that it doesn't even have one class for students ready to take on more challenging materials (and that's quite unlikely at the MS or HS level), I'd say the parents should have known what they were getting. That should not be a reason to frustrate the progress of students at other schools. Otherwise everything is being geared to the lowest possible denominator.

Yes, those lower middle class and working class families should have thought about this before they bought a house in Mount Vernon instead of McLean.

If education were their priority they'd be renting an apartment to get into a McLean school rather than buying a house in Mount Vernon.

But I doubt you're sticking up for the lower middle class families. It's usually the MC/UMC families at the low SES schools with buyer's remorse who want to hold others back.

or those parents could have the audacity to expect that public schools in the same county will have the same standards and follow the same curriculum- you know crazy ideas like that

Sorry, but one size doesn't fit all. If you don't know this already, and can't find a way to secure a more challenging education for your kid (whether it's moving to a higher-achieving pyramid or finding a way to get your kid into LLIV or AAP classes at the ES/MS level), you're stuck. It doesn't mean everything else should get dumbed down just because FCPS can't pay for a class with only two or three higher-achieving Gen Ed kids at your school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

If a school is so heavily low SES that it doesn't even have one class for students ready to take on more challenging materials (and that's quite unlikely at the MS or HS level), I'd say the parents should have known what they were getting. That should not be a reason to frustrate the progress of students at other schools. Otherwise everything is being geared to the lowest possible denominator.

Yes, those lower middle class and working class families should have thought about this before they bought a house in Mount Vernon instead of McLean.

If education were their priority they'd be renting an apartment to get into a McLean school rather than buying a house in Mount Vernon.

But I doubt you're sticking up for the lower middle class families. It's usually the MC/UMC families at the low SES schools with buyer's remorse who want to hold others back.

or those parents could have the audacity to expect that public schools in the same county will have the same standards and follow the same curriculum- you know crazy ideas like that

Sorry, but one size doesn't fit all. If you don't know this already, and can't find a way to secure a more challenging education for your kid (whether it's moving to a higher-achieving pyramid or finding a way to get your kid into LLIV or AAP classes at the ES/MS level), you're stuck. It doesn't mean everything else should get dumbed down just because FCPS can't pay for a class with only two or three higher-achieving Gen Ed kids at your school.

actually it does and it has. The parents in the schools moving slower complain to their board members, principals and regional siuperintentendants. The easiest way to respond is a standard curriculum

[Anonymous]

FCPS is definitely in decline. The school board is highly-politicized and focused on everything other than academics -- equity, diversity, homosexual and transsexual stuff, free lunches, racial busing, renaming schools . . . basically everything other than actually teaching children core academic skills.

We came from public schools in another deep blue state (NJ), so I'm used to living in a left-leaning community -- but we were shocked at how disorganized, overcrowded, mismanaged, and poorly run the FCPS schools are. And then, after a year or so, it really sank in how weak the education was, and how the dysfunction was manifest not only in the school and in the district, but also in the classroom.

I'm talking about everything from the school not being able to handle basic, mundane issues properly -- like communicating about classmates with lice, disciplining unruly and disruptive students, or figuring out reasonable lunch or bus schedules -- to more complex and troubling issues, such as students bringing weapons to school, doing away with textbooks, teaching to the lowest common denominator, and really questionable and low-effort "instruction" based on sending kids to "the internet" for research assignments. I could actually witness my children becoming disinterested and regressing from skills they had achieved years before in public school elsewhere.

We pulled out kids out and they are now happy in private school. It's shocking, to me, the low-quality and high-taxes that parents in FCPS put up with. I think FCPS is coasting on the fumes of historically being a better school district than it is today. But that will only last for a few more years. Per capita, you'll see the "success" of FCPS students falling in comparison to better-run school districts.

I can only chalk it up to everything in the DC-metro area having become so uber-political that even the public schools have become a battleground for political ideology, and parents around here are so political that they are blind to the low-quality education that their kids are actually receiving, so long as their pet political beliefs are reinforced.

In short, at 190K students, FCPS is a bloated institution, run like an inner-city school district in terms of the incompetence, waste, low-morale, low-expectations, and "anything but academics" mentality of the school board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is definitely in decline. The school board is highly-politicized and focused on everything other than academics -- equity, diversity, homosexual and transsexual stuff, free lunches, racial busing, renaming schools . . . basically everything other than actually teaching children core academic skills.

We came from public schools in another deep blue state (NJ), so I'm used to living in a left-leaning community -- but we were shocked at how disorganized, overcrowded, mismanaged, and poorly run the FCPS schools are. And then, after a year or so, it really sank in how weak the education was, and how the dysfunction was manifest not only in the school and in the district, but also in the classroom.

I'm talking about everything from the school not being able to handle basic, mundane issues properly -- like communicating about classmates with lice, disciplining unruly and disruptive students, or figuring out reasonable lunch or bus schedules -- to more complex and troubling issues, such as students bringing weapons to school, doing away with textbooks, teaching to the lowest common denominator, and really questionable and low-effort "instruction" based on sending kids to "the internet" for research assignments. I could actually witness my children becoming disinterested and regressing from skills they had achieved years before in public school elsewhere.

We pulled out kids out and they are now happy in private school. It's shocking, to me, the low-quality and high-taxes that parents in FCPS put up with. I think FCPS is coasting on the fumes of historically being a better school district than it is today. But that will only last for a few more years. Per capita, you'll see the "success" of FCPS students falling in comparison to better-run school districts.

I can only chalk it up to everything in the DC-metro area having become so uber-political that even the public schools have become a battleground for political ideology, and parents around here are so political that they are blind to the low-quality education that their kids are actually receiving, so long as their pet political beliefs are reinforced.

In short, at 190K students, FCPS is a bloated institution, run like an inner-city school district in terms of the incompetence, waste, low-morale, low-expectations, and "anything but academics" mentality of the school board.

if all that was true, you'd see test scores- including scores that can be compared across districts like AP and SAT scores- falling in comparison to other districts. You're not because it really doesn't matter because educated parents will have expectations for their kids and those kids will more often than not follow in their parents' footsteps. FCPS bends over backwards trying to fix the achievement gap, but a kid whose parents are doctors or lawyers or who has an ivy educated SAHM is going to do well in school and a kid whose parent's don't have diplomas or who is learning English and math at the same time probably won't. Unfortunately for FCPS, it has very large numbers in both groups so the gap that everyone cares about looks particularly bad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is too big, too poorly administered, and too focused on equity over achievement to provide a quality education. Things will only get worse with the current School Board and Superintendent. The mismanagement is staggering.

+1. This about sums it up.

+2 and LCPS is exactly the same. What options do MC parents have? We are not religious and cannot afford $40k+ per kid for secular private school.

Some church schools are not that religious...and they are cheap.

[Anonymous]

I agree 100% with the NJ poster above. The misbehavior that routinely was tolerated in in my daughter’s classroom (at a good Level 4 center) was shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if all that was true, you'd see test scores- including scores that can be compared across districts like AP and SAT scores- falling in comparison to other districts. You're not because it really doesn't matter because educated parents will have expectations for their kids and those kids will more often than not follow in their parents' footsteps. FCPS bends over backwards trying to fix the achievement gap, but a kid whose parents are doctors or lawyers or who has an ivy educated SAHM is going to do well in school and a kid whose parent's don't have diplomas or who is learning English and math at the same time probably won't. Unfortunately for FCPS, it has very large numbers in both groups so the gap that everyone cares about looks particularly bad

Well, time will tell. I can't imagine that today's crop of elementary and middle school children, receiving the "lowest common denominator," textbook-free education that FCPS is providing, will do very well on standardized tests in high school.

I agree with some of what you've described -- there are wealthy parents who will, for whatever reason, keep their kids in FCPS while supplementing their education with tutors, extracurricular learning opportunities, etc., and those kids will do well. But I expect that many wealthy families in this demographic will pull their kids out of FCPS as the quality of education continues to decline (and as the discipline and safety issues continue to degrade due to politicized issues like "disproportionate discipline") and that this will exert downward pressure on test scores and other metrics of achievement.

There are the students at the other end of the achievement gap, to whom FCPS will continue to devote the bulk of its resources, but the result will continue to be low-achievement and possibly worse achievement, as the discipline situation continues to degrade.

But the real damage will be caused by those parents in the middle -- the ones who aren't going to keep their kids in FPCS while trying to supplement FCPS's deficiencies with costly tutors, private instruction, and other such extracurricular activities. They will just pull their kids out -- move, send them to Catholic school, or do whatever it takes to flee the sinking ship that is FCPS. These students are the worst-affected -- they are ignored by FCPS because they don't fit anyone's political hot-button categories, but their parents can't buy their way out of FCPS's lowest common denominator approach to education. This is where you'll see the bottom drop out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is too big, too poorly administered, and too focused on equity over achievement to provide a quality education. Things will only get worse with the current School Board and Superintendent. The mismanagement is staggering.

+1. This about sums it up.

+2 and LCPS is exactly the same. What options do MC parents have? We are not religious and cannot afford $40k+ per kid for secular private school.

Some church schools are not that religious...and they are cheap.

Cheap is relative. Parochial school generally is $12k if you aren't a member of the church. Plenty of families can't afford that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

If a school is so heavily low SES that it doesn't even have one class for students ready to take on more challenging materials (and that's quite unlikely at the MS or HS level), I'd say the parents should have known what they were getting. That should not be a reason to frustrate the progress of students at other schools. Otherwise everything is being geared to the lowest possible denominator.

Yes, those lower middle class and working class families should have thought about this before they bought a house in Mount Vernon instead of McLean.

If education were their priority they'd be renting an apartment to get into a McLean school rather than buying a house in Mount Vernon.

But I doubt you're sticking up for the lower middle class families. It's usually the MC/UMC families at the low SES schools with buyer's remorse who want to hold others back.

or those parents could have the audacity to expect that public schools in the same county will have the same standards and follow the same curriculum- you know crazy ideas like that

The schools are required to educate the ESOL students who are slowing down the classrooms. Actions have consequences.