FCPS decline

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

How is FCPS going to overcome the "divided population" that comes down to....whatever you want to call it, racism, classism, haves/have-nots, etc. This thread is basically, we have resources, pay a lot in taxes, and invest a lot in our kids and we're pissed that we live in a county where resources are spread around so much to "other" groups instead of our kids. So we're going to use our resources for private instead.

That's the "division" -- people who think that public education means we all pay into a system that redistributes so that everyone gets what they need--that's equity--and people who think that public education means you get what you pay for, and if you pay more you get more.

That's what "the system is too big" is code for. There is too much room for redistribution. People want to carve out the richer areas from the poorer areas. Then you won't have all this political division, because you won't be trying to get people to compromise any more--they won't be dividing up the same pot. Some people will have a big pot to themselves, and some people will have a small pot.

This is spot-on, but it is certainly the case that FCPS is run today by people who look to redistribute resources to the poorer schools at every opportunity.

For example, Karen Keys Gamarra has been on the School Board as an at-large member for three years. Not once has she attended an event at McLean HS or displayed the slightest concern about the fact that the school has turned into a dilapidated trailer park. But she championed the renaming of Lee HS this summer and now wants FCPS to spend millions on setting up a brand-new "social justice" Academy program at Lewis HS. No work session will be held on solutions to the overcrowding at McLean, but the School Board will spend hours next month entertaining Keys Gamarra's "Academy" proposal. And Elaine Tholen, who would like to help McLean, will get taken along for a ride by Keys Gamarra et al. and ignored if she brings up the overcrowding at MHS.

That is just one example, but the venting you read about so frequently on this forum is the last anguished plea from MC and UMC families who expected something better from FCPS. They won't get it and soon they will exit the system. It's a bonanza for private schools and other counties (Arlington, Loudoun), but it will not turn out so well for Fairfax.

The easiest way to narrow the achievement gap is to ruin the good schools, whether it’s TJ or McLean. They’ll go after Langley, too, when they have a chance.

I think the overcrowding issue is handled poorly across the board by FCPS. Before Bailey's Elementary was split into a lower and upper school, the school was overcrowded for years. It was supposed to be a school for the Arts and Sciences, but had to get rid of the science lab due to overcrowding. They got rid of part of the library and even a part of the cafeteria, so kids had to eat lunch in classrooms because the cafeteria was no longer big enough to have the kids eat there. The part of the playground that once had a basketball court for kids to use at recess was overrun by trailers. This went on for years. I don't think FCPS is serving any SES well. They are lowering the caliber of education for all, so the achievement gap might actually end up bigger because most lower SES families don't have the education level or financial means to fill in the gap created by the lowering of the bar.

The schools in Mason get treated much better than the schools in Dranesville when it comes to capital resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

How is FCPS going to overcome the "divided population" that comes down to....whatever you want to call it, racism, classism, haves/have-nots, etc. This thread is basically, we have resources, pay a lot in taxes, and invest a lot in our kids and we're pissed that we live in a county where resources are spread around so much to "other" groups instead of our kids. So we're going to use our resources for private instead.

That's the "division" -- people who think that public education means we all pay into a system that redistributes so that everyone gets what they need--that's equity--and people who think that public education means you get what you pay for, and if you pay more you get more.

That's what "the system is too big" is code for. There is too much room for redistribution. People want to carve out the richer areas from the poorer areas. Then you won't have all this political division, because you won't be trying to get people to compromise any more--they won't be dividing up the same pot. Some people will have a big pot to themselves, and some people will have a small pot.

The things a lot of us are asking for wouldn't cost anything though. We're not asking for fancy science labs and expensive field trips. We're asking for spelling tests, and feedback in red ink on writing assignments, and a simple math workbook instead of iReady. Those things would benefit every child in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

So you're saying kids shouldn't be allowed to learn because it's not fair to others? And teachers should just stop and go through the motions pretending, but not actually teaching anything new? Genius idea, wonderful suggestion for improving education in society. Let's just completely screw everyone who is not on the same level, including teachers who may actually want to you know... actually teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Ok, so what's your proposal for the multitude of kids at the high SES schools who are bored to death? Continue to have schools and teachers waste time and resources to pretend to "teach" ? Ship low SES kids to the high SES elementary school? Close down high SES school and redistribute all the resources to other schools? How about actually teaching to the group's ability level? You must be smart enough to be aware of the vastly different ability levels in classrooms; so why the pretense that everyone has to move at the same page? Just admit that your agenda is to lower the bar across the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

How is FCPS going to overcome the "divided population" that comes down to....whatever you want to call it, racism, classism, haves/have-nots, etc. This thread is basically, we have resources, pay a lot in taxes, and invest a lot in our kids and we're pissed that we live in a county where resources are spread around so much to "other" groups instead of our kids. So we're going to use our resources for private instead.

That's the "division" -- people who think that public education means we all pay into a system that redistributes so that everyone gets what they need--that's equity--and people who think that public education means you get what you pay for, and if you pay more you get more.

That's what "the system is too big" is code for. There is too much room for redistribution. People want to carve out the richer areas from the poorer areas. Then you won't have all this political division, because you won't be trying to get people to compromise any more--they won't be dividing up the same pot. Some people will have a big pot to themselves, and some people will have a small pot.

The things a lot of us are asking for wouldn't cost anything though. We're not asking for fancy science labs and expensive field trips. We're asking for spelling tests, and feedback in red ink on writing assignments, and a simple math workbook instead of iReady. Those things would benefit every child in the county.

So ask the school board for these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

[Anonymous]

Teachers have been giving all the suggestions for years. So much is out of our control. We have meeting after meeting about closing the gap. In.jy 20 years of teacher, maybe there have been a handful of meetings about extension activities for higher kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

So you're saying kids shouldn't be allowed to learn because it's not fair to others? And teachers should just stop and go through the motions pretending, but not actually teaching anything new? Genius idea, wonderful suggestion for improving education in society. Let's just completely screw everyone who is not on the same level, including teachers who may actually want to you know... actually teach.

it's what we're doing now. Some group of kids ends up being screwed either way - be it the kids in high ses schools moving slower or the kids in low res schools getting an inferior education because their class composition won't allow the schools to move faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers have been giving all the suggestions for years. So much is out of our control. We have meeting after meeting about closing the gap. In.jy 20 years of teacher, maybe there have been a handful of meetings about extension activities for higher kids.

^^Sorry, fingers typing too fast, all over the place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

remedial classes are bad- if you don't think so, ask UVA or W&M or any other selective school why they care about the schedule strength an applicant takes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

What if the ESOL kids were in their own class so their teacher could work with them on their level and the lower SES kids who are not ESOL can work at their own level? Wouldn't that work better for everyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
^FCPS has not developed a culture that supports the divided population we are seeing here. Years ago we had a more middle to upper middle class population. Now we are seeing the divide like much of America. FCPS is struggling to figure it all out.

The divide is not really a big issue for the families who want their kids to actually learn in school. Maybe it's an issue at the lower SES schools due to large number of resources needed to be spent bringing many kids to on level. But far more concerning is the fact that the quality of education is very low at high SES schools as well. At our FCPS elementary school (small school, and almost all high SES kids) there is very little learning going on in class. It's not that the kids are not capable or behind (they're clearly doing fine as most are privileged with lots of resources). It's the fact that many of the kids are bored and not getting what they need in math and reading/writing. The curriculum itself and the way the teachers teach is very basic and shallow. This in my opinion is the tragedy that is happening in FCPS, it's not the divide. The divide is good as the are is becoming more diverse, and bringing low SES kids up to on level is great. But the dumbing down of curriculum especially in high SES classrooms is really heartbreaking to see.

so the high SES schools should be allowed to move forward, while the gen ed kids in low SES schools still have to go the speed that the ESOL kids are capable of. Then when the schools meet up in middle school, the high SES kids will be so far ahead that the kids from the low SES schools will be stuck in remedial classes? sounds great for the high SES kids

Don't you think it a bit racist of you to claim that remedial classes are bad? Isn't the goal of closing the education gap to teach these kids effectively? You should be glad if kids are learning, irrespective of the class they are placed in, as long as they are at the appropriate level and the teacher is capable of teaching at that level.

so you're fine with kids from high SES schools being able to move forward and kids at low SES schools being forced to slow down due to the proportion of ESOL kids and then end up on a slower track not because of their ability, but because they ened up in a class room full of english learners that couldn't move at the same rate as a class in an SES school?

If a school is so heavily low SES that it doesn't even have one class for students ready to take on more challenging materials (and that's quite unlikely at the MS or HS level), I'd say the parents should have known what they were getting. That should not be a reason to frustrate the progress of students at other schools. Otherwise everything is being geared to the lowest possible denominator.