WSJ/Times Higher Education: College Rankings for 2021

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It made this Tar Heel smile to see UNC over UCB. But c’mon... maybe decades ago that would be the case, but now I’d say UNC should be much lower than UCB. Sad but true.

Berkeley is a great graduate school and research school, and a very strong option if you are in a few majors like business or computer science, but I think many schools are better overall at an undergraduate level. It is difficult to get classes, classes are large, professors aren't interested in undergraduate teaching and TAs take a heavy part of the undergraduate load.

This is true for the vast majority of schools in this list (or USNWR for that matter).

Starting with Harvard

I don't think it is difficulty to get classes at Harvard or have smaller classes earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely different methodology than US News, with student test scores and grades, admit rates and yields not included. The rankings are based on resources (like endowment), student engagement (by survey), outcomes (graduate salaries) and environment (measure of diversity). So naturally the wealthiest schools rise to the top. The pecking order we are used to based on selectivity gets shaken up here, after the top cluster at least.

+1

This WSJ list feels like a reactionary attempt by the upper middle class to return college rankings back to the good old days of being the gatekeepers of social status. The schools are ordered largely based on the wealth of the school and its students, along with vestigial “prestige.” It doesn’t say anything about the delta between the where the students start and where they end up, which should be the real measure of a school’s value.

USNews isn’t perfect, but I appreciate how they are attempting to measure the value that a school truly adds by considering the socioeconomic status of the students when judging their outcomes. If a school has a disproportionate percentage of affluent students, its not surprising that the student outcomes look good. I’m more impressed by less exalted schools that consistently deliver positive outcomes for less affluent students.

US News ranking recently seems to be on steroid, with big spurious oscillations from year to year.

The US News top rankings are pretty stable. Perhaps too stable. The big changes recently happened more below 20 or so in the rankings and seem to have been driven by the inclusion of Pell Grants / Social mobility in the ratings. This WSJ ranking doesn't make that much sense to me below the top schools as well.

It looks more like what international students in China might prefer. Harvard is #1 cuz Chinese grandpas and grandmas would know Harvard. The list looks more like what schools their kids might have realistic chances - soft-"ivy" Cornell over some top Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely different methodology than US News, with student test scores and grades, admit rates and yields not included. The rankings are based on resources (like endowment), student engagement (by survey), outcomes (graduate salaries) and environment (measure of diversity). So naturally the wealthiest schools rise to the top. The pecking order we are used to based on selectivity gets shaken up here, after the top cluster at least.

+1

This WSJ list feels like a reactionary attempt by the upper middle class to return college rankings back to the good old days of being the gatekeepers of social status. The schools are ordered largely based on the wealth of the school and its students, along with vestigial “prestige.” It doesn’t say anything about the delta between the where the students start and where they end up, which should be the real measure of a school’s value.

USNews isn’t perfect, but I appreciate how they are attempting to measure the value that a school truly adds by considering the socioeconomic status of the students when judging their outcomes. If a school has a disproportionate percentage of affluent students, its not surprising that the student outcomes look good. I’m more impressed by less exalted schools that consistently deliver positive outcomes for less affluent students.

US News ranking recently seems to be on steroid, with big spurious oscillations from year to year.

The US News top rankings are pretty stable. Perhaps too stable. The big changes recently happened more below 20 or so in the rankings and seem to have been driven by the inclusion of Pell Grants / Social mobility in the ratings. This WSJ ranking doesn't make that much sense to me below the top schools as well.

It looks more like what international students in China might prefer. Harvard is #1 cuz Chinese grandpas and grandmas would know Harvard. The list looks more like what schools their kids might have realistic chances - soft-"ivy" Cornell over some top Ivies.

Schools could be ranked cleanly based on some clear criteria. Most prestigious. Most selective. Value add for earnings. Value for money. Quality of teaching. But when you combine them all together in a ranking, it kind of muddies things up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems odd that William and Mary, Washington and Lee and yes, GT are missing. Also odd to include Boston University and omit Northeastern with co-ops.

They are 71-73. I could make an argument all three could be higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting.. my DD got into NYU (#27) but was rejected as in-state at the University of Washington (45).

Both are fairly selective. I wonder if the situation in NYC is affecting applications.

NY is safer than more than 30 states. People from hot states need to quarantine upon entering NY.

My husband is a consultant who's worked with several major municipalities. His words: inner-city crime data is fake, it's at least 2x worse than they claim. The only accurate data point are homicides, because you can't really conceal or manipulate cold bodies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting.. my DD got into NYU (#27) but was rejected as in-state at the University of Washington (45).

Both are fairly selective. I wonder if the situation in NYC is affecting applications.

NY is safer than more than 30 states. People from hot states need to quarantine upon entering NY.

My husband is a consultant who's worked with several major municipalities. His words: inner-city crime data is fake, it's at least 2x worse than they claim. The only accurate data point are homicides, because you can't really conceal or manipulate cold bodies.

318 murders in NYC last year, including 18-yo Tessa Majors, a freshman at Barnard (Columbia).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tessa_Majors

How many other college students were murdered last year across the U.S.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting.. my DD got into NYU (#27) but was rejected as in-state at the University of Washington (45).

Both are fairly selective. I wonder if the situation in NYC is affecting applications.

NY is safer than more than 30 states. People from hot states need to quarantine upon entering NY.

My husband is a consultant who's worked with several major municipalities. His words: inner-city crime data is fake, it's at least 2x worse than they claim. The only accurate data point are homicides, because you can't really conceal or manipulate cold bodies.

318 murders in NYC last year, including 18-yo Tessa Majors, a freshman at Barnard (Columbia).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tessa_Majors

How many other college students were murdered last year across the U.S.?

You really want to do this? Take a seat.

https://www.news.meredithlmg.com/south-carolina-college-student-and-her-stepfather-shot-dead-over-a-fender-bender-police-say/article_1ea2e462-e8a5-11ea-9a15-bb94fe14eff7.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/university-south-carolina-student-missing-friday-night-died/story?id=62056723

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-01-29/college-student-confirmed-as-3rd-fatality-in-sc-bar-shooting

https://katv.com/news/local/1-student-dead-1-injured-in-shooting-at-southern-arkansas-university

http://www.magnoliareporter.com/news_and_business/local_news/article_b3f80d4e-dea0-11ea-a351-97f147f6c230.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-lsu-shooting-southern-university-female-students-dead-party/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: My husband is a consultant who's worked with several major municipalities. His words: inner-city crime data is fake, it's at least 2x worse than they claim. The only accurate data point are homicides, because you can't really conceal or manipulate cold bodies.

Your husband says so?

Well, that settles it.

Stop with the links and the data. This lady's husband says so. Discussion over.

Now can we get back to the topic : WSJ/Times Higher Education: College Rankings for 2021?? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It made this Tar Heel smile to see UNC over UCB. But c’mon... maybe decades ago that would be the case, but now I’d say UNC should be much lower than UCB. Sad but true.

Berkeley is a great graduate school and research school, and a very strong option if you are in a few majors like business or computer science, but I think many schools are better overall at an undergraduate level. It is difficult to get classes, classes are large, professors aren't interested in undergraduate teaching and TAs take a heavy part of the undergraduate load.

True. It is same the situation with many other fine research type public universities, like UIUC, UMichigan, for example. Great place to do graduate study, undesirable for undergrads. Just too big the schools are. You hardly see a professor in lower classes. They are not interested in teaching undergrads and many of them are not required to. This is why the elite private schools are better for undergrads, but of course they are more expensive and much harder to get in.

[Anonymous]

https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Scheduling/CS/schedule.html?_ga=2.86858008.1436108233.1600652896-290863879.1600652896

This is the list of courses in EECS from Berkeley this fall. Most are taught by professors, with lots of TA in the lower level courses. The list of courses offered is broad and expansive.

Certainly the classes in Berkeley are large due to the big size of the university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I speak on good authority:
nobody chooses Northwestern over Ivies
nobody chooses Brown over Princeton
nobody chooses Chicago over Columbia
and Georgetown is 10 spots too low

Lots of people choose Chicago or WUSTL or Vanderbilt over any of the Ivies. The east coast freaks some Midwesterners out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting.. my DD got into NYU (#27) but was rejected as in-state at the University of Washington (45).

Both are fairly selective. I wonder if the situation in NYC is affecting applications.

NY is safer than more than 30 states. People from hot states need to quarantine upon entering NY.

My husband is a consultant who's worked with several major municipalities. His words: inner-city crime data is fake, it's at least 2x worse than they claim. The only accurate data point are homicides, because you can't really conceal or manipulate cold bodies.

318 murders in NYC last year, including 18-yo Tessa Majors, a freshman at Barnard (Columbia).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tessa_Majors

How many other college students were murdered last year across the U.S.?

You really want to do this? Take a seat.

https://www.news.meredithlmg.com/south-carolina-college-student-and-her-stepfather-shot-dead-over-a-fender-bender-police-say/article_1ea2e462-e8a5-11ea-9a15-bb94fe14eff7.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/university-south-carolina-student-missing-friday-night-died/story?id=62056723

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-01-29/college-student-confirmed-as-3rd-fatality-in-sc-bar-shooting

https://katv.com/news/local/1-student-dead-1-injured-in-shooting-at-southern-arkansas-university

http://www.magnoliareporter.com/news_and_business/local_news/article_b3f80d4e-dea0-11ea-a351-97f147f6c230.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-lsu-shooting-southern-university-female-students-dead-party/

Was Tessa the only college student murdered in NYC last year?

[Anonymous]

True. It is same the situation with many other fine research type public universities, like UIUC, UMichigan, for example. Great place to do graduate study, undesirable for undergrads. Just too big the schools are. You hardly see a professor in lower classes. They are not interested in teaching undergrads and many of them are not required to. This is why the elite private schools are better for undergrads, but of course they are more expensive and much harder to get in.

Total and complete nonsense. Undergrads hardly see professors at Michigan? You are beyond clueless. It’s embarrass the amount of stupidity one reads here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I speak on good authority:
nobody chooses Northwestern over Ivies
nobody chooses Brown over Princeton
nobody chooses Chicago over Columbia
and Georgetown is 10 spots too low

Lots of people choose Chicago or WUSTL or Vanderbilt over any of the Ivies. The east coast freaks some Midwesterners out.

Then why do they apply? Pretty dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting.. my DD got into NYU (#27) but was rejected as in-state at the University of Washington (45).

Both are fairly selective. I wonder if the situation in NYC is affecting applications.

NY is safer than more than 30 states. People from hot states need to quarantine upon entering NY.

My husband is a consultant who's worked with several major municipalities. His words: inner-city crime data is fake, it's at least 2x worse than they claim. The only accurate data point are homicides, because you can't really conceal or manipulate cold bodies.

My investment guy was walking with his wife a block away from St Patricks Cathedral in Manhattan. He got hit on the brick from behind by a male and crashed to the ground. The assault was so severe he thought scaffolding had fallen on him. The dude did not want money or cell phone. THis was mid afternoon. He just wanted to sucker attack a white dude wearing a suit from behind.

Dude doing the sucker attack was arrested but bailed out after 3 hours. This was last fall (pre Covid).