For people who say "school is not for childcare"...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Yes, words means things. So saying that school is not childcare is ridiculous.

Yeah. Pay attention to the words. "School is not childcare" =/= "The mandate is education."

Schools happen to provide childcare, but as we can see, they do not have to. That is why they aren't.

If you want them to provide childcare, then mandate it. While you're there, sort out what they are going to do with homeschooled or unschooled kids whose caregivers don't want them in class but may want sporadic childcare for their own reasons.

I think you’re off topic here. School is education and childcare. People think that it isn’t. Those people are nuts. Clearly. That’s on topic.

Schools are required to provide education. They can shrug and say it’s not by job to provide childcare. The fact that they’re not required to supply childcare is a major failure of government. That’s off topic.

What people think -- as well as your opinion of them -- isn't particularly relevant to what schools are required to be. That's a matter of federal and state law.

Change the law if you want to change the requirements, or mandates. Or rant on anonymous forums that other people are nuts, but it won't have the effect you seem to desire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is that childcare is not the primary purpose of school, if it were it would be open year round like daycare.

Yes, but it is A purpose of school. To say it's not puts an unfair amount of burden on working parents.

Closing schools definitely has a major impact on US families -- to the point where it can make it hard for families to stay intact and survive -- but that doesn't mean it is a mandate of the schools. Not of how they are designed. The mandate is the education.

Now that also doens't mean that it shouldn't be part of tha mandate -- it just isn't. SO, for example, if you have a kid who leaves formal schooling because you are going to homeschool or unschool, or if the child is over 16 and decides not to go, you can't just drop those kids off at school on the days you need to work. They are either an enrolled student or not, and if enrolled, ithey have to be in classes.a

Some countries have universal daycare provisions, or state-sponsered childcare availability. We don't. Maybe we should. But that's not the same question.

The mandate is not just education. Case point- 4 million meals being served this spring/ summer. These boards were literally begging people to pick up meals because some locations were throwing out so much food. Dont you think they could have cut some locations off that did not have high pick up rates? No, because they must feed families.

Case in point 2- mcps cannot open without providing transportation to schools to children. Why hasn't everyone been screaming, "school is uber!" Bussing is not education. But School cannot open without it by law. Because theoretically school is an uber also. You can't have one without the other.

The school systems and government chose to prioritize what they want- they could do DL and childcate not for pay if they chose to.

So what can students get from schools if they are not getting educated or receiving educational services there? Nothing.

Can students get educational services from schools if they don't participate in the other ancillary services? Yes. You don't have to use the bus, or the meals, or anything else.

The mandate is the education. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I encourage you to work on changing it.

The question is not whats mandated, it's what's provided.

But does DL meet "education? "

Don't encourage me to change it. We've moved to an in person private.

I encourage teachers to evaluate whether their students are learning.

So you think that if an institution provides something which it doesn't have to, that they always have to provide it thereafter in exactly the same way?

I bet new baggage fees and no more meals on airplanes really did you in.

No, you're making an incorrect inference. Never mentioned future requirements.

Debate- "school is not childcare "

My opinion - it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Yes, words means things. So saying that school is not childcare is ridiculous.

Yeah. Pay attention to the words. "School is not childcare" =/= "The mandate is education."

Schools happen to provide childcare, but as we can see, they do not have to. That is why they aren't.

If you want them to provide childcare, then mandate it. While you're there, sort out what they are going to do with homeschooled or unschooled kids whose caregivers don't want them in class but may want sporadic childcare for their own reasons.

I think you’re off topic here. School is education and childcare. People think that it isn’t. Those people are nuts. Clearly. That’s on topic.

Schools are required to provide education. They can shrug and say it’s not by job to provide childcare. The fact that they’re not required to supply childcare is a major failure of government. That’s off topic.

What people think -- as well as your opinion of them -- isn't particularly relevant to what schools are required to be. That's a matter of federal and state law.

Change the law if you want to change the requirements, or mandates. Or rant on anonymous forums that other people are nuts, but it won't have the effect you seem to desire.

The law does not change what schools actually are. Why are you being so obtuse? The topic of this thread is regarding people who don’t think school is childcare. It CLEARLY IS CHILDCARE. That’s objective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that it comes from this idea that teachers are college educated professionals and not babysitters, so saying school is childcare is pejorative.

It makes me crazy too, OP. It's factual. That's the way the entire public school institution is arranged. It's childcare AND education.

I agree!

--teacher and parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I really hate how the phrase degrades the valuable work of childcare providers, who are nearly all women.

When teachers union leaders say this, it comes across as incredibly out of touch and degrading. I don't understand why they do not see how awful they sound when they talk like this.

Agree. That’s another reason it’s cringey

Except teachers themselves are predominantly women and childcare providers are not expected to write legal documents, take data, conduct assessments, prepare children for state tests, etc.
If childcare providers want to become teachers, they are certainly free to work through school to make that happen. I was a nanny and I got my transitional license, went to school at night, and worked my way through my certification. The two jobs are not the same, and one of them requires a master's degree, while the other does not require any educational qualifications. That's reality.

Just stop.

I know. Lol. The 2nd to last sentence tipped it over the edge...

Why, because you think it's unkind to point out that some jobs require qualifications and degrees while others do not? Because it's true, and it isn't an opinion. Just like you can become a restaurant worker, a factory worker, or a bus driver without a diploma but you can't become a doctor, a nurse, a lawyer, an accountant, or many many other professions. If daycare providers decide they want the high salaries and prestige of teachers (sarcasm) then they should become teachers. The primary function of daycare is childcare, the primary function of school is education. That is the difference. It's not like daycare workers are primarily women and teachers are primarily men.
Lots of people who want to cry that school closures are a feminist crisis while conveniently ignoring the people who actually run our schools.

You keep demonstrating the point by being insulting and degrading. You should really think about how you come across.

There was no point to demonstrate. "Just stop" is not an argument and has no basis in fact. That's your opinion. I did not say anything insulting or degrading. I did not use pejoratives or name call anyone (unlike the people on here constantly bashing teachers for being "lazy" and "whiners"). It is fundamentally true that daycare is childcare and school is for educational purposes. If you find it upsetting to acknowledge that different jobs require different qualifications and serve different functions, then we won't get anywhere. Do you also pretend that you "don't see color"?

I didn't say "just stop." And as for you, after that utterly out of touch and unaware ramble, you segue into an outright insult (your last sentence), so I think you've neatly made the point that people who say "school isn't childcare" come across as entitled and pejorative for me, thanks.

You are the one who is insulting other people. Let's count, in just that short response. "Utterly out of touch", "Unaware", "ramble". You seem to be totally unable to see outside yourself. I made a comparison to many people's unwillingness to talk about class or race because it's relevant here.
By the way, I don't think that daycare providers are somehow unaware that they are childcare. If people didn't need childcare, daycare would not exist. It isn't insulting to state the function of their job, just as it is not insulting to say that a grocery store worker stocks shelves, takes inventory, and manages transactions at a cash register.

There are indeed race and class issues here, which are made much worse by you and other people like you when you disparage childcare workers, who are disproportionately women of color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that it comes from this idea that teachers are college educated professionals and not babysitters, so saying school is childcare is pejorative.

It makes me crazy too, OP. It's factual. That's the way the entire public school institution is arranged. It's childcare AND education.

I agree!

--teacher and parent

I think there’s a bit of racism and classism in that “school is not daycare” thing. Teachers want to make the distinction between their positions (bachelor’s degree/teaching credentials required) and that of the everyday daycare worker. Not coincidently, daycare workers are typically blacker or browner than the average teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that it comes from this idea that teachers are college educated professionals and not babysitters, so saying school is childcare is pejorative.

It makes me crazy too, OP. It's factual. That's the way the entire public school institution is arranged. It's childcare AND education.

I agree!

--teacher and parent

I think there’s a bit of racism and classism in that “school is not daycare” thing. Teachers want to make the distinction between their positions (bachelor’s degree/teaching credentials required) and that of the everyday daycare worker. Not coincidently, daycare workers are typically blacker or browner than the average teacher.

I completely agree with this, except I don't think it's just "a bit" of racism and classism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is that childcare is not the primary purpose of school, if it were it would be open year round like daycare.

Yes, but it is A purpose of school. To say it's not puts an unfair amount of burden on working parents.

Closing schools definitely has a major impact on US families -- to the point where it can make it hard for families to stay intact and survive -- but that doesn't mean it is a mandate of the schools. Not of how they are designed. The mandate is the education.

Now that also doens't mean that it shouldn't be part of tha mandate -- it just isn't. SO, for example, if you have a kid who leaves formal schooling because you are going to homeschool or unschool, or if the child is over 16 and decides not to go, you can't just drop those kids off at school on the days you need to work. They are either an enrolled student or not, and if enrolled, ithey have to be in classes.a

Some countries have universal daycare provisions, or state-sponsered childcare availability. We don't. Maybe we should. But that's not the same question.

The mandate is not just education. Case point- 4 million meals being served this spring/ summer. These boards were literally begging people to pick up meals because some locations were throwing out so much food. Dont you think they could have cut some locations off that did not have high pick up rates? No, because they must feed families.

Case in point 2- mcps cannot open without providing transportation to schools to children. Why hasn't everyone been screaming, "school is uber!" Bussing is not education. But School cannot open without it by law. Because theoretically school is an uber also. You can't have one without the other.

The school systems and government chose to prioritize what they want- they could do DL and childcate not for pay if they chose to.

So what can students get from schools if they are not getting educated or receiving educational services there? Nothing.

Can students get educational services from schools if they don't participate in the other ancillary services? Yes. You don't have to use the bus, or the meals, or anything else.

The mandate is the education. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I encourage you to work on changing it.

The question is not whats mandated, it's what's provided.

But does DL meet "education? "

Don't encourage me to change it. We've moved to an in person private.

I encourage teachers to evaluate whether their students are learning.

So you think that if an institution provides something which it doesn't have to, that they always have to provide it thereafter in exactly the same way?

I bet new baggage fees and no more meals on airplanes really did you in.

No, you're making an incorrect inference. Never mentioned future requirements.

Debate- "school is not childcare "

My opinion - it is.

Well, if you are arguing based on the way things *are*, not how you expected them to be, then you probably noticed you aren't getting childcare. That might continue. No future requirements -- just maintain the status quo? Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Yes, words means things. So saying that school is not childcare is ridiculous.

Yeah. Pay attention to the words. "School is not childcare" =/= "The mandate is education."

Schools happen to provide childcare, but as we can see, they do not have to. That is why they aren't.

If you want them to provide childcare, then mandate it. While you're there, sort out what they are going to do with homeschooled or unschooled kids whose caregivers don't want them in class but may want sporadic childcare for their own reasons.

I think you’re off topic here. School is education and childcare. People think that it isn’t. Those people are nuts. Clearly. That’s on topic.

Schools are required to provide education. They can shrug and say it’s not by job to provide childcare. The fact that they’re not required to supply childcare is a major failure of government. That’s off topic.

What people think -- as well as your opinion of them -- isn't particularly relevant to what schools are required to be. That's a matter of federal and state law.

Change the law if you want to change the requirements, or mandates. Or rant on anonymous forums that other people are nuts, but it won't have the effect you seem to desire.

The law does not change what schools actually are. Why are you being so obtuse? The topic of this thread is regarding people who don’t think school is childcare. It CLEARLY IS CHILDCARE. That’s objective.

It also CLEARLY PROVIDES AIR TO STUDENTS. But it is not required to provide clean air for them if they are not there in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Yes, words means things. So saying that school is not childcare is ridiculous.

Yeah. Pay attention to the words. "School is not childcare" =/= "The mandate is education."

Schools happen to provide childcare, but as we can see, they do not have to. That is why they aren't.

If you want them to provide childcare, then mandate it. While you're there, sort out what they are going to do with homeschooled or unschooled kids whose caregivers don't want them in class but may want sporadic childcare for their own reasons.

I think you’re off topic here. School is education and childcare. People think that it isn’t. Those people are nuts. Clearly. That’s on topic.

Schools are required to provide education. They can shrug and say it’s not by job to provide childcare. The fact that they’re not required to supply childcare is a major failure of government. That’s off topic.

What people think -- as well as your opinion of them -- isn't particularly relevant to what schools are required to be. That's a matter of federal and state law.

Change the law if you want to change the requirements, or mandates. Or rant on anonymous forums that other people are nuts, but it won't have the effect you seem to desire.

The law does not change what schools actually are. Why are you being so obtuse? The topic of this thread is regarding people who don’t think school is childcare. It CLEARLY IS CHILDCARE. That’s objective.

It also CLEARLY PROVIDES AIR TO STUDENTS. But it is not required to provide clean air for them if they are not there in person.

DP. You are making literally no sense at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Yes, words means things. So saying that school is not childcare is ridiculous.

Yeah. Pay attention to the words. "School is not childcare" =/= "The mandate is education."

Schools happen to provide childcare, but as we can see, they do not have to. That is why they aren't.

If you want them to provide childcare, then mandate it. While you're there, sort out what they are going to do with homeschooled or unschooled kids whose caregivers don't want them in class but may want sporadic childcare for their own reasons.

I think you’re off topic here. School is education and childcare. People think that it isn’t. Those people are nuts. Clearly. That’s on topic.

Schools are required to provide education. They can shrug and say it’s not by job to provide childcare. The fact that they’re not required to supply childcare is a major failure of government. That’s off topic.

What people think -- as well as your opinion of them -- isn't particularly relevant to what schools are required to be. That's a matter of federal and state law.

Change the law if you want to change the requirements, or mandates. Or rant on anonymous forums that other people are nuts, but it won't have the effect you seem to desire.

The law does not change what schools actually are. Why are you being so obtuse? The topic of this thread is regarding people who don’t think school is childcare. It CLEARLY IS CHILDCARE. That’s objective.

It also CLEARLY PROVIDES AIR TO STUDENTS. But it is not required to provide clean air for them if they are not there in person.

So you agree school is childcare. Yeah! Hooray! Huzzah! That’s on topic. Thank you and good evening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Yes, words means things. So saying that school is not childcare is ridiculous.

Yeah. Pay attention to the words. "School is not childcare" =/= "The mandate is education."

Schools happen to provide childcare, but as we can see, they do not have to. That is why they aren't.

If you want them to provide childcare, then mandate it. While you're there, sort out what they are going to do with homeschooled or unschooled kids whose caregivers don't want them in class but may want sporadic childcare for their own reasons.

I think you’re off topic here. School is education and childcare. People think that it isn’t. Those people are nuts. Clearly. That’s on topic.

Schools are required to provide education. They can shrug and say it’s not by job to provide childcare. The fact that they’re not required to supply childcare is a major failure of government. That’s off topic.

What people think -- as well as your opinion of them -- isn't particularly relevant to what schools are required to be. That's a matter of federal and state law.

Change the law if you want to change the requirements, or mandates. Or rant on anonymous forums that other people are nuts, but it won't have the effect you seem to desire.

The law does not change what schools actually are. Why are you being so obtuse? The topic of this thread is regarding people who don’t think school is childcare. It CLEARLY IS CHILDCARE. That’s objective.

It also CLEARLY PROVIDES AIR TO STUDENTS. But it is not required to provide clean air for them if they are not there in person.

So you agree school is childcare. Yeah! Hooray! Huzzah! That’s on topic. Thank you and good evening.

*amused*

I agree that schools happen to provider childcare, chairs, and clean air to students who are there in person to fulfil the mandate of providing education. If education is provided virtually, don't expect you to be able to demand childcare from them, just as I don't expect you to be able to demand chairs from them

Thank you for agreeing with me.

[Anonymous]

^^provide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Yes, words means things. So saying that school is not childcare is ridiculous.

Yeah. Pay attention to the words. "School is not childcare" =/= "The mandate is education."

Schools happen to provide childcare, but as we can see, they do not have to. That is why they aren't.

If you want them to provide childcare, then mandate it. While you're there, sort out what they are going to do with homeschooled or unschooled kids whose caregivers don't want them in class but may want sporadic childcare for their own reasons.

I think you’re off topic here. School is education and childcare. People think that it isn’t. Those people are nuts. Clearly. That’s on topic.

Schools are required to provide education. They can shrug and say it’s not by job to provide childcare. The fact that they’re not required to supply childcare is a major failure of government. That’s off topic.

What people think -- as well as your opinion of them -- isn't particularly relevant to what schools are required to be. That's a matter of federal and state law.

Change the law if you want to change the requirements, or mandates. Or rant on anonymous forums that other people are nuts, but it won't have the effect you seem to desire.

The law does not change what schools actually are. Why are you being so obtuse? The topic of this thread is regarding people who don’t think school is childcare. It CLEARLY IS CHILDCARE. That’s objective.

It also CLEARLY PROVIDES AIR TO STUDENTS. But it is not required to provide clean air for them if they are not there in person.

DP. You are making literally no sense at all.

Sorry you're having problems understanding. Hope it gets better.

[Anonymous]

I guess I never realized how much teachers and their unions disdained and disrespected childcare workers and their work. It's disgraceful.