Is AAP race blind? Are there quotas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading the appeals decisions thread about insane wisc scores getting denied makes me wonder if there is more to the story at FCPS AAP this year.

Does anyone know if race is now being taken into consideration?

Race is likely a factor but it is just one factor. I doubt the county has quotas to fill, that would likely be illegal. Consideration of race is not just a quota issue anyways. Having a more diverse AAP population serves a more important purpose - studies have shown that when a student body is more diverse than the collective experience is more valuable.

It may not seem fair that kids aren't held to the same standards but it is not an easy one to fix. In the end, if race is one factor so that the AAP population is more diverse, we are better for it.

It is actually an easy one to fix.
Option 1 - provide programming and opportunities in PK3-2nd that help more hispanic and AA kids meet the standards they need to be successful in AAP. You can increase their representation without needing to artificially decrease anyone else's. If there is a hard cap on numbers of kids, then put in the Asian and white kids who are actually gifted and not the ones with 120s test scores and high GBRS.
Option 2 - LLIV at all schools. Admit any kids to AAP who show that they need more than gen ed. Conduct a lottery for the AAP Center spots, and have the lottery pick a percentage of students from each race comparable to the representation of that race in the FCPS population. Centers would be diverse and serve everyone's needs, and while the LLIVs might be less diverse, at least the kids would get what they need academically.
Option 3 - Make AAP open enrollment, just like MS Honors. Keep standards high, and provide extra help, kind of like the MS AVID program, for the kids from underrepresented groups.


Option 3 is a terrible choice. I also think open honors classes are ridiculous as well. I am a 6th grade teacher and can tell you for a fact there are many students performing below grade level who sign up for all honors. I personally think kids should be reevaluated each year for AAP. I also think GBRS shouldn’t have as much weight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Board has been clear they take race into consideration.

It's on the front page of the application as is address school name and languages spoken.

They have goals to admit certain percentages and have discussed it in public meetings.

Is 2 or more races a separate category? Obviously you don't want to be white or Asian so would 2 or more be a minority in itself?

It is, but I think if you're white/Asian biracial, they would consider you Asian.

Dang what is the best thing to do just say you are aa?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people overcomplicating this? For white kids in that 2018-2019 cohort, 596 are in pool and 880 are in AAP. For black kids, 26 were in pool and 154 are in AAP. For Hispanic kids, 72 in pool and 271 in AAP. For Asian kids, 592 were in pool and 677 in AAP. For Multiracial kids, 118 were in pool and 210 in AAP. Even if you assume that all of the pool kids got in, which they didn't, that's still a sizable number of kids who got in without being in pool.

So what I am also seeing with these stats are that about the same number of Asian kids and white kids were in then pool, but 200 more white kids got in through than Asian kids. Thats interesting. I would love to know how many of those from each groups were accepted from original pool and how many were parent referrals in each group. It would shed a little light on the whole Asian bias (they prep, etc.) Any way of getting those stats?

White kids had parents pay for WISC test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Clearly reading data and statistics isnt your strong suit which makes your comment about stubbornly clinging to incorrect notions even more funny but to start:
1. those who were in pool and referred by parents/teachers aren't mutually exclusive. In fact Fairfax actively encourages parents to refer because the scores come back too close to the referral cut off date. I referred based on that notice from our school and a day later found out my kid was already in pool.
2.The 20% white overall number of AAP eligible isnt the same as thing as the numbers used for just those in the testing year
3. Your explanation and understanding of statistics used here is just wrong

I'm not responding to your foolishness any longer. You clearly dont know what you're talking about and insist on asserting things that aren't true, aren't stated in this report and are seemingly based on your faulty math skills. Bye

You are hilarious and proof of the Dunning Kruger effect. 1. You CAN NOT be both in pool and parent referred. You can submit forms, but a kid who is in pool is not counted as a parent referral and vice versa. Table 9 clearly shows that the Total of white kids screened for AAP is the Pool + Parent Referred + Teacher Referred. No one is occupying more than one category. 2. I'll give you this one, but the tables show that for the specific 2018-2019 cohort, 880 white kids were AAP eligible out of about 5400 total, so close to 15%. 3. How so? Please explain. I'm all ears. My calculations show that the Z score for a 132 CogAT composite for white kids is 1.39, which corresponds to 9% of the white kids in FCPS. How is this incorrect?

What are your credentials for statistics?

DP. Can’t get the doc to load, so don’t know how this is addressed.

We parent referred our in-pool child (would’ve been, based on scores), who was not in FCPS. I’m sure we aren’t the only ones coming from a different school system, doing parent referrals. How are these kids binned? Are kids in different grades broken out differently? Because every single one of them that is not a rising 3rd grader, is also parent referred. How are they classified?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Board has been clear they take race into consideration.

It's on the front page of the application as is address school name and languages spoken.

They have goals to admit certain percentages and have discussed it in public meetings.

Is 2 or more races a separate category? Obviously you don't want to be white or Asian so would 2 or more be a minority in itself?

It is, but I think if you're white/Asian biracial, they would consider you Asian.

Dang what is the best thing to do just say you are aa?

Yep. Or try AA/Hispanic (50/50), which I believe is the "sweet spot."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Option 3 - Make AAP open enrollment, just like MS Honors. Keep standards high, and provide extra help, kind of like the MS AVID program, for the kids from underrepresented groups.

Option 3 is a terrible choice. I also think open honors classes are ridiculous as well. I am a 6th grade teacher and can tell you for a fact there are many students performing below grade level who sign up for all honors. I personally think kids should be reevaluated each year for AAP. I also think GBRS shouldn’t have as much weight.

As a parent, I'm curious why parents do this. Isn't it detrimental to the kids? What do you think the motivation is? To get away from the poorly behaved kids (but I heard that there are SN and poorly behaved kids in higher classes too)? Or do you think the parents are honestly just delusional about the kids' abilities and think there's been some type of mistake if they aren't invited into these classes? Or you think they're just wanting to keep up with appearances and seem as successful as other people they know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Option 3 - Make AAP open enrollment, just like MS Honors. Keep standards high, and provide extra help, kind of like the MS AVID program, for the kids from underrepresented groups.

Option 3 is a terrible choice. I also think open honors classes are ridiculous as well. I am a 6th grade teacher and can tell you for a fact there are many students performing below grade level who sign up for all honors. I personally think kids should be reevaluated each year for AAP. I also think GBRS shouldn’t have as much weight.

As a parent, I'm curious why parents do this. Isn't it detrimental to the kids? What do you think the motivation is? To get away from the poorly behaved kids (but I heard that there are SN and poorly behaved kids in higher classes too)? Or do you think the parents are honestly just delusional about the kids' abilities and think there's been some type of mistake if they aren't invited into these classes? Or you think they're just wanting to keep up with appearances and seem as successful as other people they know?

Its to boost college applications

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Board has been clear they take race into consideration.

It's on the front page of the application as is address school name and languages spoken.

They have goals to admit certain percentages and have discussed it in public meetings.

OMG. Do you even know who “the board” is? It’s 200 teachers that volunteer and get a sub day and spend the whole day at Willow Oaks reading packets. They rotate through over the course of 5 days. I’m an ESOL teacher and I’ve done it every year for 5 years. We aren’t specially trained and we look at the whole package and not just those test scores. We also are told to disregard parent work submitted because it’s often done by them or with a lot of help. We never look at the identifying info. Honestly after reading several hundred, no one cares if it’s a boy or girl, age, grade, etc. it’s draining. You can surmise all you want about the system but I’m here to tell you it’s a complete crapshoot. It has to get 4 yes or 4 no to be completed. Sometimes 3 people say yes, one says no, and then it goes to another reader. It’s a botched system. After completing the packet, your best chance it just to pray. All depends on who reads it and if they are feeling the love. There are also no limited spots (the only time that may come into play is during appeals since classes have been formed by then). Basically, have good scores and make sure the teacher likes your kid for good GBRS. Other than that pray and wait. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Option 3 - Make AAP open enrollment, just like MS Honors. Keep standards high, and provide extra help, kind of like the MS AVID program, for the kids from underrepresented groups.

Option 3 is a terrible choice. I also think open honors classes are ridiculous as well. I am a 6th grade teacher and can tell you for a fact there are many students performing below grade level who sign up for all honors. I personally think kids should be reevaluated each year for AAP. I also think GBRS shouldn’t have as much weight.

As a parent, I'm curious why parents do this. Isn't it detrimental to the kids? What do you think the motivation is? To get away from the poorly behaved kids (but I heard that there are SN and poorly behaved kids in higher classes too)? Or do you think the parents are honestly just delusional about the kids' abilities and think there's been some type of mistake if they aren't invited into these classes? Or you think they're just wanting to keep up with appearances and seem as successful as other people they know?

I think it is a mix of not truly accepting where there child is performing and FOMO. In Loudoun, Honors is based off teacher recommendation. It should be here too. Luckily, the middle schools are good at contacting parents if they think a schedule isn’t appropriate. I could def see having open AAP being the same disaster. I really wish all kids could get AAP for different subjects and not all 4. I would say only a small portion needs it for all 4 subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Board has been clear they take race into consideration.

It's on the front page of the application as is address school name and languages spoken.

They have goals to admit certain percentages and have discussed it in public meetings.

OMG. Do you even know who “the board” is? It’s 200 teachers that volunteer and get a sub day and spend the whole day at Willow Oaks reading packets. They rotate through over the course of 5 days. I’m an ESOL teacher and I’ve done it every year for 5 years. We aren’t specially trained and we look at the whole package and not just those test scores. We also are told to disregard parent work submitted because it’s often done by them or with a lot of help. We never look at the identifying info. Honestly after reading several hundred, no one cares if it’s a boy or girl, age, grade, etc. it’s draining. You can surmise all you want about the system but I’m here to tell you it’s a complete crapshoot. It has to get 4 yes or 4 no to be completed. Sometimes 3 people say yes, one says no, and then it goes to another reader. It’s a botched system. After completing the packet, your best chance it just to pray. All depends on who reads it and if they are feeling the love. There are also no limited spots (the only time that may come into play is during appeals since classes have been formed by then). Basically, have good scores and make sure the teacher likes your kid for good GBRS. Other than that pray and wait. 🙄

This is the problem right here. Just like with college admission there is too much subjective bs in all of this

No one should be getting in without being in pool. That should be it if you are in pool in, not in pool out period done end of story. No appeals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Board has been clear they take race into consideration.

It's on the front page of the application as is address school name and languages spoken.

They have goals to admit certain percentages and have discussed it in public meetings.

OMG. Do you even know who “the board” is? It’s 200 teachers that volunteer and get a sub day and spend the whole day at Willow Oaks reading packets. They rotate through over the course of 5 days. I’m an ESOL teacher and I’ve done it every year for 5 years. We aren’t specially trained and we look at the whole package and not just those test scores. We also are told to disregard parent work submitted because it’s often done by them or with a lot of help. We never look at the identifying info. Honestly after reading several hundred, no one cares if it’s a boy or girl, age, grade, etc. it’s draining. You can surmise all you want about the system but I’m here to tell you it’s a complete crapshoot. It has to get 4 yes or 4 no to be completed. Sometimes 3 people say yes, one says no, and then it goes to another reader. It’s a botched system. After completing the packet, your best chance it just to pray. All depends on who reads it and if they are feeling the love. There are also no limited spots (the only time that may come into play is during appeals since classes have been formed by then). Basically, have good scores and make sure the teacher likes your kid for good GBRS. Other than that pray and wait. 🙄

Wow... That's horrifying on so many levels. I think we were all under the impression that it was mostly AARTs and AAP teachers, and not just any random teacher. Before appeals, then, they already know which centers are over capacity and which have room. I bet the kids getting rejected with the high WISC scores are zoned to centers that are over-capacity, and they never had a chance of getting in on appeals.

[Anonymous]

I was always told a high Wisc can get kids into aap even they don’t do well on nnat/cogat nor perform good in class. Hopefully my DC will do well on both test and be a good student in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Board has been clear they take race into consideration.

It's on the front page of the application as is address school name and languages spoken.

They have goals to admit certain percentages and have discussed it in public meetings.

OMG. Do you even know who “the board” is? It’s 200 teachers that volunteer and get a sub day and spend the whole day at Willow Oaks reading packets. They rotate through over the course of 5 days. I’m an ESOL teacher and I’ve done it every year for 5 years. We aren’t specially trained and we look at the whole package and not just those test scores. We also are told to disregard parent work submitted because it’s often done by them or with a lot of help. We never look at the identifying info. Honestly after reading several hundred, no one cares if it’s a boy or girl, age, grade, etc. it’s draining. You can surmise all you want about the system but I’m here to tell you it’s a complete crapshoot. It has to get 4 yes or 4 no to be completed. Sometimes 3 people say yes, one says no, and then it goes to another reader. It’s a botched system. After completing the packet, your best chance it just to pray. All depends on who reads it and if they are feeling the love. There are also no limited spots (the only time that may come into play is during appeals since classes have been formed by then). Basically, have good scores and make sure the teacher likes your kid for good GBRS. Other than that pray and wait. 🙄

Putting more weight on test scores would go a long ways towards making it less arbitrary. Just sayin'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was always told a high Wisc can get kids into aap even they don’t do well on nnat/cogat nor perform good in class. Hopefully my DC will do well on both test and be a good student in the future.

Your DC could have the best score in the school (on both NNAT and Cogat), and could have a high WISC score and still be rejected (as the ESOL teacher pointed out, DC needs to pray and hope they're getting the love from the board)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is the problem right here. Just like with college admission there is too much subjective bs in all of this

No one should be getting in without being in pool. That should be it if you are in pool in, not in pool out period done end of story. No appeals

Appeals are required by law, it's not up to the school system.