Hunkering down: the long haul

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The county isn’t taking anything away from you.

How can you possibly say that? I had daycare. The state said the daycare provider could reopen and watch my kids. Then the county said no.

How is that not the county taking it away?

We could argue over whether that is justifiable, not whether they took it away.

It’s all happening because of a pandemic. If you think the county is responsible for that, or can/should be delivering you a quality of life that exceeds that reality, you’re...mistaken. Mistaken is the kindest way I can say it.

Again, (many) daycares didn't shut down because of the pandemic. That wasn't a decision made by the virus. It wasn't made by the parents. And it wasn't made by the providers.

It was a decision made by the state. And when the state said they could reopen, it was the county that decided that they could not.

Decisions are, in fact, made by people. Again, we could discuss whether those decisions are sensible, but that's a different issue than who/what is making those decisions. The state, and now the county, leaders are imposing their own risk-based decisions on everyone else.

And many people on here believe that their personal risk based calculations should supersede those of the community/district/county/state. They are wrong. There are people who want to drive 120 mph on the highway but we don’t allow them to. They think that’s a reasonable level of risk. You don’t exist in a vacuum and just because you feel that you personally won’t be killed or disabled by COVID (or a high speed car crash) doesn’t mean that you can force other people to accept that same level of risk.

Yes. The level of selfishness because people think that they will personally be fine when everything reopens is astounding. It completely ignores the at risk populations who will die when this spreads more.

It’s like you haven’t read any of the studies about how effective masks are about preventing transmission. They reduce the spread to less than one person per infected individual, meaning the virus would just die off if we all wore the dang masks. We don’t need to stay home. We do need to wear masks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jimmy Kimmel had a good take on this after looking over LA guidelines for school opening. Basically jail with some geometry on a side. All the fun stuff, PE, band, theater, music, etc. will be severely constrained, so kids are left with stuff that can be done from anywhere.

For us it does not make sense to send kids back until it is back to truly normal because of a vaccine and effective treatment. In the meantime it just means that I have to deal with kids more than usual. Of course, if both of us worked, it would be different.

Way to bury the lead. Next time can you please start your post by explaining that you don't work so we can just scroll on by?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep thinking that we’re going wrong in believing that returning to our previous before corona lifestyle is the only answer. I totally feel the stress too but that can’t justify just giving up and pretending the virus doesn’t exist.

PP directly above you, and why are those your only choices? They’re not.

Here’s what we’re doing: getting together with a few other families, outside only. Our kids run around together and the adults stand apart. We don’t share food or drinks, we don’t go inside together.

I’m not comfortable spending time inside with other people, with the exception of once weekly grocery shopping, and during which I wear a mask. We’re not getting our hair done or pedicures, or eating inside at restaurants (or even outside), or going to malls, or planning to go to the gym. That, to me, feels like a reasonable middle ground. There is no solid evidence that outdoor transmission is robust in non-crowded settings, and there’s some evidence that kids don’t transmit the virus as much as adults do. The things we are doing have eased our stress considerably, and yes, that matters, *especially* when those things confer minimal risk of us contracting the virus. I’ll add that none of us are high-risk for complications, either, which we also take into account.

Agree. We have shifted our lives considerably from pre-COVID times, but we are no longer staying within the confines of our property lines. We are both working from home and are not getting our hair cut or our nails done, eating at restaurants, going to the gym, even going to grocery stores anymore, but we do see people outside now and allow our children to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jimmy Kimmel had a good take on this after looking over LA guidelines for school opening. Basically jail with some geometry on a side. All the fun stuff, PE, band, theater, music, etc. will be severely constrained, so kids are left with stuff that can be done from anywhere.

For us it does not make sense to send kids back until it is back to truly normal because of a vaccine and effective treatment. In the meantime it just means that I have to deal with kids more than usual. Of course, if both of us worked, it would be different.

Way to bury the lead. Next time can you please start your post by explaining that you don't work so we can just scroll on by?

“bury the lede”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep thinking that we’re going wrong in believing that returning to our previous before corona lifestyle is the only answer. I totally feel the stress too but that can’t justify just giving up and pretending the virus doesn’t exist.

PP directly above you, and why are those your only choices? They’re not.

Here’s what we’re doing: getting together with a few other families, outside only. Our kids run around together and the adults stand apart. We don’t share food or drinks, we don’t go inside together.

I’m not comfortable spending time inside with other people, with the exception of once weekly grocery shopping, and during which I wear a mask. We’re not getting our hair done or pedicures, or eating inside at restaurants (or even outside), or going to malls, or planning to go to the gym. That, to me, feels like a reasonable middle ground. There is no solid evidence that outdoor transmission is robust in non-crowded settings, and there’s some evidence that kids don’t transmit the virus as much as adults do. The things we are doing have eased our stress considerably, and yes, that matters, *especially* when those things confer minimal risk of us contracting the virus. I’ll add that none of us are high-risk for complications, either, which we also take into account.

Agree. We have shifted our lives considerably from pre-COVID times, but we are no longer staying within the confines of our property lines. We are both working from home and are not getting our hair cut or our nails done, eating at restaurants, going to the gym, even going to grocery stores anymore, but we do see people outside now and allow our children to do the same.

You’re having get-togethers with friends but you’re too delicate of a flower for a grocery run?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You’re having get-togethers with friends but you’re too delicate of a flower for a grocery run?

I do the same. I’m minimising risks and I’m taking risks on important things like relationships, I can gave groceries delivered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You’re having get-togethers with friends but you’re too delicate of a flower for a grocery run?

I do the same. I’m minimising risks and I’m taking risks on important things like relationships, I can gave groceries delivered.

A friend who is Chinese and read many of the early studies said that Covid 19 often spread in grocery stores in China. I haven't seen any indication that visiting with friends outside occasionally is nearly as dangerous as getting groceries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You’re having get-togethers with friends but you’re too delicate of a flower for a grocery run?

I do the same. I’m minimising risks and I’m taking risks on important things like relationships, I can gave groceries delivered.

A friend who is Chinese and read many of the early studies said that Covid 19 often spread in grocery stores in China. I haven't seen any indication that visiting with friends outside occasionally is nearly as dangerous as getting groceries.

I have no idea what studies your referring to, and whether they were actually done with any scientific rigor. I kind of doubt it. It all comes down to extended close contacts, and the how many secondary contacts those people have, etc.

If you can avoid extended close contacts while grocery shopping, then it's fine. If not, then it's dangerous.

If you're closely interacting with a small group of friends who are isolating pretty strongly, then it's fine. If all your friends are going out with a bunch of other people too, then it's dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You’re having get-togethers with friends but you’re too delicate of a flower for a grocery run?

I do the same. I’m minimising risks and I’m taking risks on important things like relationships, I can gave groceries delivered.

A friend who is Chinese and read many of the early studies said that Covid 19 often spread in grocery stores in China. I haven't seen any indication that visiting with friends outside occasionally is nearly as dangerous as getting groceries.

Well, there you go. Your Chinese friend is the expert in covid.

[Anonymous]

After a month of blissful semi-normal, including several play dates indoors and out without masks, more take out drive thru, toyed with the idea of date nights and babysitters,my state NC case rate has gone bonkers so we as a family are back to lockdown. I am mentally preparing myself for Spring 2021.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You’re having get-togethers with friends but you’re too delicate of a flower for a grocery run?

I do the same. I’m minimising risks and I’m taking risks on important things like relationships, I can gave groceries delivered.

A friend who is Chinese and read many of the early studies said that Covid 19 often spread in grocery stores in China. I haven't seen any indication that visiting with friends outside occasionally is nearly as dangerous as getting groceries.

The data doesn't support this at all. If people were catching it in the grocery store at this point the numbers would be much higher. Most cases are from being in close contact, indoors, with an infected person for a prolonged period of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You’re having get-togethers with friends but you’re too delicate of a flower for a grocery run?

I do the same. I’m minimising risks and I’m taking risks on important things like relationships, I can gave groceries delivered.

A friend who is Chinese and read many of the early studies said that Covid 19 often spread in grocery stores in China. I haven't seen any indication that visiting with friends outside occasionally is nearly as dangerous as getting groceries.

The data doesn't support this at all. If people were catching it in the grocery store at this point the numbers would be much higher. Most cases are from being in close contact, indoors, with an infected person for a prolonged period of time.

The problem is that we aren't working with a complete dataset. This is a new virus and the knowledge is evolving every day so to say "oh this is safe because the data say this or that" is facile and short sighted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My husband and I (geneticist and virologist) are probably not sending our tween and teen to school until we’ve been vaccinated. We are anticipating Covid-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths to surge with each attempt to open, and hope a vaccine will be available in 2021 (Dr. Fauci predicted early 2021).

Please be more spoken at school board planning and state plannings. Some of the planners seem not well informed on covid data. I will be doing the same with my kids as you are. High risk household. But even if not, it would be life changing for all if any one of us were to be seriously ill, medical bills aside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I hear you about chronic stress in childhood; my spouse experienced it and it was no joke.

On the other hand, speaking as someone with significant medical trauma, having my child or anyone in our household go through the scope of illness coronavirus can create is low on my list of things I want to have happen. Because I am at higher risk, this is a real consideration.

I think what is hard about assessing these other variables is that we don't know what to compare this to. Is it like a war? Is it like a POW camp? Is it like being kidnapped by a crazed anti-human-contact cult? It's just dissimilar enough from many situations that could be points of departure to make the bodies of work that could inform the population-level decision-making....not that informative.

I think this generation is going to be marked by this experience. But other than the basics, I don't think our behavior as parents is going to be driving the bus about the nature and scope of that impact. It's unnerving, but I'm trying to get comfortable with it.

I think it depends a bit on the age of your children... mine are preschool/ early elementary. It’s hard not to have the social interaction. But it’s nothing like what older kids are experiencing. The youngest seems happy most of the time, the older one is sometimes frustrated about staying in but mature enough to articulate the good sides of staying home. Both have been having what I would call an old-fashioned childhood. Lots of time outside, gardening, digging in dirt, catching bugs, flying kites, blowing bubbles, hiking, hitting balls around, baking...reading books and chatting with grandparents and friends online. Learning how do chores. It is limiting and lonely at times but I think for another year it is doable. We both work so that has been a lot to juggle. Fortunately I am able to flex my hours and that helps me to keep the kids busy.

Our grandparents on both sides survived bad parts of WWII. Not enough food, death all around, being hunted. That’s trauma. Many families who are hard hit economically are also going through severe stress. But for those with jobs this really isn’t on that scale, let alone trauma.

Tell your kids their live is over now because you are paranoid. See how they go for that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband and I (geneticist and virologist) are probably not sending our tween and teen to school until we’ve been vaccinated. We are anticipating Covid-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths to surge with each attempt to open, and hope a vaccine will be available in 2021 (Dr. Fauci predicted early 2021).

Please be more spoken at school board planning and state plannings. Some of the planners seem not well informed on covid data. I will be doing the same with my kids as you are. High risk household. But even if not, it would be life changing for all if any one of us were to be seriously ill, medical bills aside.

No one is forcing you to leave your house.