Jk Rowling/Transphobia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men. ”

Are you a man? Are you a woman who really doesn’t keep her guard up walking around a city after dark? Do you feel comfortable walking alone in a parking garage? Have you never been harassed? I mean, is this a joke? I have never been attacked but I’m also not stupid.

I'm a woman. I wouldn't feel comfortable in high-crime areas, but neither would my DH. I don't mind walking alone at night in "safe" areas of cities though. Parking garages don't bother me.

I had an old guy at work make a sexist comment a million years ago but everyone in the room just laughed at him so it didn't feel threatening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Stop it already. JK Rowlings is the opposite of transphobic. She has some perfectly well-reasoned arguments that are respectful of the trans community and rooted in support of women. I support her and I agree with her.

+1

I've read what she's written and I don't see the transphobia. I don't why she's being attacked.

Same. I even spent a day going through her Twitter feed to figure it out. I've come to the conclusion that everything that she's said has been twisted and misinterpreted. I tried not to be vocal about my support for her initial. However, once I did speak up, I realized that a lot of my friends felt the same way. Progressive friends. I don't think that we're alone in this. It's the super vocal minority that is labeling her transphobic. And they are flat out wrong.

I think it might be a generational thing. I am an older millennial who is in her corner but I go somewhere where posters skew younger, like reddit, and her name is mud. I don’t get it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I like to make connections with any adult, trans or not, who doesn’t act like they’re a newborn baby that doesn’t understand how the world works.

What on earth does that mean? And what does that have to do with connecting with a transgender woman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1
Stop trying to demonize her.

+1000

+100,000

I want to know what anyone believes is to be gained by quashing meaningful and challenging dialog about ideas.

The same thing happened to the researcher in womens health who dared to ask the question about what is going on with so many teen girls suddenly identifying as trans boys, and could the sharp spike in numbers be something other than just people feeling more free? Its an absolutely legitimate _question_ of public health.

She asked the question, did the research, and paid for it in ways that are totally wrong.

People are being demonized in the same way feminists once were, and on whose shoulders all gender related issues even have been able to reach the light of day. We make enemies of those who could be allies by making them pass a purity test. Huh, kinda like the Republican party is trying to do.

This idea that you must accept a concept, an idea, without dissent is very very dangerous and I am confused as to why the demonization of Rowling is not understood as a sign of something not good.

She is after all entitled to feel and express what she does. She is not hurting anyone with her views, not in any way that can be demonstrated. Is she?

Okay I know this is an old-ish issue but I want to respond.

Her statements are hurting people. Trans people. Pointing out the problems with what she is saying is not demonizing her, nor is it suggesting you have to accept something without dissent. She is free to contribute to the dehumanization of trans individuals, and we are free to stop supporting her. It’s not cancel culture, it is a simple consequence of something she is currently doing.

I agree that people shouldn’t threaten her though. That was wrong too.

I've read what she has written and I cannot for the life of me see that anything she has written is dehumanizing. i, as a woman, find a lot of trans activist rhetoric extremely dehumanizing for women and girls. Also, she has most definitely been confronted with cancel culture.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men. ”

Are you a man? Are you a woman who really doesn’t keep her guard up walking around a city after dark? Do you feel comfortable walking alone in a parking garage? Have you never been harassed? I mean, is this a joke? I have never been attacked but I’m also not stupid.

I'm a woman. I wouldn't feel comfortable in high-crime areas, but neither would my DH. I don't mind walking alone at night in "safe" areas of cities though. Parking garages don't bother me.

I had an old guy at work make a sexist comment a million years ago but everyone in the room just laughed at him so it didn't feel threatening.

Alright, everybody go home. PP feels safe most of the time, so your fears are unfounded. Her experience is universal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Stop it already. JK Rowlings is the opposite of transphobic. She has some perfectly well-reasoned arguments that are respectful of the trans community and rooted in support of women. I support her and I agree with her.

+1

I've read what she's written and I don't see the transphobia. I don't why she's being attacked.

Same. I even spent a day going through her Twitter feed to figure it out. I've come to the conclusion that everything that she's said has been twisted and misinterpreted. I tried not to be vocal about my support for her initial. However, once I did speak up, I realized that a lot of my friends felt the same way. Progressive friends. I don't think that we're alone in this. It's the super vocal minority that is labeling her transphobic. And they are flat out wrong.

I think it might be a generational thing. I am an older millennial who is in her corner but I go somewhere where posters skew younger, like reddit, and her name is mud. I don’t get it.

Honestly, I wonder if the younger kids have even bothered to go through her actual words - as opposed to just reading on reddit why someone else hates her. Pardon my age, but I also think life experiences has a lot to do with this. The younger generation is so quick to get on the BURN THEM ALL DOWN bandwagon without taking the time to understand ideas. For all their talk of tolerance, I'm always blown away by the younger generations inability to understand a differing POV. I chalk it up to lack of life experiences.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men. ”

Are you a man? Are you a woman who really doesn’t keep her guard up walking around a city after dark? Do you feel comfortable walking alone in a parking garage? Have you never been harassed? I mean, is this a joke? I have never been attacked but I’m also not stupid.

I'm a woman. I wouldn't feel comfortable in high-crime areas, but neither would my DH. I don't mind walking alone at night in "safe" areas of cities though. Parking garages don't bother me.

I had an old guy at work make a sexist comment a million years ago but everyone in the room just laughed at him so it didn't feel threatening.

Alright, everybody go home. PP feels safe most of the time, so your fears are unfounded. Her experience is universal.

Yes, one sexist comment a million years ago which was immediately and publicly repudiated by all colleagues is the norm, for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men. ”

Are you a man? Are you a woman who really doesn’t keep her guard up walking around a city after dark? Do you feel comfortable walking alone in a parking garage? Have you never been harassed? I mean, is this a joke? I have never been attacked but I’m also not stupid.

I'm a woman. I wouldn't feel comfortable in high-crime areas, but neither would my DH. I don't mind walking alone at night in "safe" areas of cities though. Parking garages don't bother me.

I had an old guy at work make a sexist comment a million years ago but everyone in the room just laughed at him so it didn't feel threatening.

Alright, everybody go home. PP feels safe most of the time, so your fears are unfounded. Her experience is universal.

One of my points was that no one's experience is universal.

My other point was very little of how we connect with others is based on gender. Being scared of walking down a "scary" street isn't limited to women. Having a jerk at work isn't limited to women. Having people treat you poorly isn't limited to women.

Maybe focus on the common, human connections instead of the differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

I'm sure there are a lot of topics you can cover.

There is much more to life than menstruation, pregnancy, and breastfeeding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men. ”

Are you a man? Are you a woman who really doesn’t keep her guard up walking around a city after dark? Do you feel comfortable walking alone in a parking garage? Have you never been harassed? I mean, is this a joke? I have never been attacked but I’m also not stupid.

I'm a woman. I wouldn't feel comfortable in high-crime areas, but neither would my DH. I don't mind walking alone at night in "safe" areas of cities though. Parking garages don't bother me.

I had an old guy at work make a sexist comment a million years ago but everyone in the room just laughed at him so it didn't feel threatening.

Alright, everybody go home. PP feels safe most of the time, so your fears are unfounded. Her experience is universal.

One of my points was that no one's experience is universal.

My other point was very little of how we connect with others is based on gender. Being scared of walking down a "scary" street isn't limited to women. Having a jerk at work isn't limited to women. Having people treat you poorly isn't limited to women.

Maybe focus on the common, human connections instead of the differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

Do you only have deep relationships with women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

Do you only have deep relationships with women?

Np but I’d say that’s quite common. Besides my husband all my close relationships are with women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

I'm sure there are a lot of topics you can cover.

There is much more to life than menstruation, pregnancy, and breastfeeding.

The female experience is not limited to those things. Granted you have had a special snowflake experience different from many others, but not everyone is you.