Jk Rowling/Transphobia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

I realize we must be responding to a man, but I’ll bite. It’s not that the conversation is centered around these things, but there is an understanding of experience that comes with being a woman. We literally live our lives differently than men. How many men do you know who change the route they walk home based on the season? The way we move through life is totally different because women have evolved to survive living on a planet with men.

I don't think those things fundamentally change how I connect with others. The vast majority of my experiences and connections with other people are not based on "female" things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

+1 This reminds me, a car salesman didn't want to let me test drive a car once, wanted to know if my husband was there. I wasn't even married at the time. I bought that car myself but made sure to go to another dealer across town.

I wonder if that guy would have been a jerk to a transwoman as well...

I doubt it. I'm a very petite woman and get infantilized and condescended to often. I'm going to guess even more so than women of more average height.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

I realize we must be responding to a man, but I’ll bite. It’s not that the conversation is centered around these things, but there is an understanding of experience that comes with being a woman. We literally live our lives differently than men. How many men do you know who change the route they walk home based on the season? The way we move through life is totally different because women have evolved to survive living on a planet with men.

I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally supportive of trans because if it makes you happier to live as the opposite of your birth gender, then go for it.

But I am puzzled at the insistence by activist that trans women have to be considered true biological women (which they are not). Which was JK Rowling's point. A transwoman will never have the body of a biological woman, and this includes periods and menstruation. And I do think people need to be honest about the disadvantages of transwomen competing in women's sports. And that there have been problems with transwomen in women's prisons.

There's clearly a generational divide here. I blame it on the emergence of the idea that everything is a social construct and anyone can be anything they want at all times under all circumstances. The real world, aka biology, doesn't quite work like that and it would be helpful to remember there are limits and to seek a middle ground.

+1

What's wrong with a middle ground? What's wrong with acknowledging the reality that trans women are not biological women? I mean, it's just a fact.

I was disturbed to read that trans women wanted to attend a group for women who had lost children in childbirth. Why should people who had never or could never experience miscarriages or still births be allowed to attend, but cis gender women who had never had those experiences were barred? All in the name of equal access?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Stop it already. JK Rowlings is the opposite of transphobic. She has some perfectly well-reasoned arguments that are respectful of the trans community and rooted in support of women. I support her and I agree with her.

+1

I've read what she's written and I don't see the transphobia. I don't why she's being attacked.

[Anonymous]

“ I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men. ”

Are you a man? Are you a woman who really doesn’t keep her guard up walking around a city after dark? Do you feel comfortable walking alone in a parking garage? Have you never been harassed? I mean, is this a joke? I have never been attacked but I’m also not stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Stop it already. JK Rowlings is the opposite of transphobic. She has some perfectly well-reasoned arguments that are respectful of the trans community and rooted in support of women. I support her and I agree with her.

+1

I've read what she's written and I don't see the transphobia. I don't why she's being attacked.

Same. I even spent a day going through her Twitter feed to figure it out. I've come to the conclusion that everything that she's said has been twisted and misinterpreted. I tried not to be vocal about my support for her initial. However, once I did speak up, I realized that a lot of my friends felt the same way. Progressive friends. I don't think that we're alone in this. It's the super vocal minority that is labeling her transphobic. And they are flat out wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I like to make connections with any adult, trans or not, who doesn’t act like they’re a newborn baby that doesn’t understand how the world works.