Jk Rowling/Transphobia

[Anonymous]

One of my points was that no one's experience is universal.

My other point was very little of how we connect with others is based on gender. Being scared of walking down a "scary" street isn't limited to women. Having a jerk at work isn't limited to women. Having people treat you poorly isn't limited to women.

Maybe focus on the common, human connections instead of the differences.

There are literal brain based differences between the two sexes, which change even more after childbirth. Considering reading the book Brain Rules; one of the rules regards sex differences.

I’ve been very confused by the denial of biological reality and by the JK Rowling hate. I don’t think it’s safe medically for transwomen to deny their biological sex at least during medical treatments. I don’t think it’s ethical for them to compete athletically with biological females. There needs to be some level of acknowledgment of biological differences.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

Do you only have deep relationships with women?

Np but I’d say that’s quite common. Besides my husband all my close relationships are with women.

Generally my husband doesn't approve of my fun weekend trips away with my best guy friend. So, no, I don't have a lot of close male friends I connect with on a deep level. Some would call that an emotion affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

One of my points was that no one's experience is universal.

My other point was very little of how we connect with others is based on gender. Being scared of walking down a "scary" street isn't limited to women. Having a jerk at work isn't limited to women. Having people treat you poorly isn't limited to women.

Maybe focus on the common, human connections instead of the differences.

There are literal brain based differences between the two sexes, which change even more after childbirth. Considering reading the book Brain Rules; one of the rules regards sex differences.

I’ve been very confused by the denial of biological reality and by the JK Rowling hate. I don’t think it’s safe medically for transwomen to deny their biological sex at least during medical treatments. I don’t think it’s ethical for them to compete athletically with biological females. There needs to be some level of acknowledgment of biological differences.

Do those brain differences preclude people from connecting with people from the opposite gender?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ I'm rereading this again and these words really struck me. I'm sorry you experienced so much trauma that you feel this threatened by men. ”

Are you a man? Are you a woman who really doesn’t keep her guard up walking around a city after dark? Do you feel comfortable walking alone in a parking garage? Have you never been harassed? I mean, is this a joke? I have never been attacked but I’m also not stupid.

I'm a woman. I wouldn't feel comfortable in high-crime areas, but neither would my DH. I don't mind walking alone at night in "safe" areas of cities though. Parking garages don't bother me.

I had an old guy at work make a sexist comment a million years ago but everyone in the room just laughed at him so it didn't feel threatening.

Alright, everybody go home. PP feels safe most of the time, so your fears are unfounded. Her experience is universal.

One of my points was that no one's experience is universal.

My other point was very little of how we connect with others is based on gender. Being scared of walking down a "scary" street isn't limited to women. Having a jerk at work isn't limited to women. Having people treat you poorly isn't limited to women.

Maybe focus on the common, human connections instead of the differences.

You’re SO RIGHT. Men commonly walk through parking garages with their keys threaded through their fingers so they can be ready for when someone tries to rape them. Men are commonly paid much less than their female peers who perform the same job. Men are constantly having to deal with people asking their wives for permission to fix the roof or repair the car. You’re definitely not full of shit and should absolutely be taken seriously.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

+1 I don't have Y DNA. I've never had SRS surgery, assumed a new identity as another gender, or peed while standing up. I have less in common with them than I do with women, but I would like to talk to MtoF trans to learn about people who are very different from me biologically and socially. I'm very sympathetic to the third gender and I will advocate on their behalf for separate third gender spaces.

[Anonymous]

The idea that everything is a human experience is ridiculous. The poster who keep insisting that periods are the main "womanly" topic is thinking in terms of an ideal society where men and women are equal. We know that is not true in various realms as pointed out by another poster. This is even worse in other countries and societies where women as a group suffer more than men. The combination of biology and society have real world implications for women.

Take the issue of giving birth. Women are not equal in this regard. They generally have a time frame of 2 decades when they can give birth if they choose to. In that same time frame, they are likely in the most critical time of building their careers. A man can set up his career and then get married and have children. In addition, men may have children earlier, but generally don't take on the brunt of childcare duties (yes, we know they should, but it is not true for many couples from varying backgrounds).
More importantly, men can have children even into their 60's. Do men worry about this deadline that women face? This is just one example of a womanly topic that is forefront on many women's minds who may or may not have given birth. It is a topic that is not simply about exchanging breastfeeding tips and has many deeper implications on long-term career choices, time and money spent on IVF, marriage, etc. Period poster seems to think issues specific to women have finite time frames of relevance. On the other side, who bears the most burden of contraception--whether it is taking a pill, or inserting an IUD? We can go on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The idea that everything is a human experience is ridiculous. The poster who keep insisting that periods are the main "womanly" topic is thinking in terms of an ideal society where men and women are equal. We know that is not true in various realms as pointed out by another poster. This is even worse in other countries and societies where women as a group suffer more than men. The combination of biology and society have real world implications for women.

Take the issue of giving birth. Women are not equal in this regard. They generally have a time frame of 2 decades when they can give birth if they choose to. In that same time frame, they are likely in the most critical time of building their careers. A man can set up his career and then get married and have children. In addition, men may have children earlier, but generally don't take on the brunt of childcare duties (yes, we know they should, but it is not true for many couples from varying backgrounds).
More importantly, men can have children even into their 60's. Do men worry about this deadline that women face? This is just one example of a womanly topic that is forefront on many women's minds who may or may not have given birth. It is a topic that is not simply about exchanging breastfeeding tips and has many deeper implications on long-term career choices, time and money spent on IVF, marriage, etc. Period poster seems to think issues specific to women have finite time frames of relevance. On the other side, who bears the most burden of contraception--whether it is taking a pill, or inserting an IUD? We can go on and on.

But, see, the "we are all human" poster doesn't have kids. So this topic is boring to her. Therefore it is boring and of little consequence to anyone else and should never be discussed amongst other women. Can't we just talk about books and movies instead?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

Do you only have deep relationships with women?

Np but I’d say that’s quite common. Besides my husband all my close relationships are with women.

Generally my husband doesn't approve of my fun weekend trips away with my best guy friend. So, no, I don't have a lot of close male friends I connect with on a deep level. Some would call that an emotion affair.

I've had (and have) some "deep" relationships with men, but none were an emotional affair. Neighbors, colleagues, college friends. We talk about parenting, life, work, etc. Very platonic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that everything is a human experience is ridiculous. The poster who keep insisting that periods are the main "womanly" topic is thinking in terms of an ideal society where men and women are equal. We know that is not true in various realms as pointed out by another poster. This is even worse in other countries and societies where women as a group suffer more than men. The combination of biology and society have real world implications for women.

Take the issue of giving birth. Women are not equal in this regard. They generally have a time frame of 2 decades when they can give birth if they choose to. In that same time frame, they are likely in the most critical time of building their careers. A man can set up his career and then get married and have children. In addition, men may have children earlier, but generally don't take on the brunt of childcare duties (yes, we know they should, but it is not true for many couples from varying backgrounds).
More importantly, men can have children even into their 60's. Do men worry about this deadline that women face? This is just one example of a womanly topic that is forefront on many women's minds who may or may not have given birth. It is a topic that is not simply about exchanging breastfeeding tips and has many deeper implications on long-term career choices, time and money spent on IVF, marriage, etc. Period poster seems to think issues specific to women have finite time frames of relevance. On the other side, who bears the most burden of contraception--whether it is taking a pill, or inserting an IUD? We can go on and on.

But, see, the "we are all human" poster doesn't have kids. So this topic is boring to her. Therefore it is boring and of little consequence to anyone else and should never be discussed amongst other women. Can't we just talk about books and movies instead?

I do have kids, but I haven't given birth. I was pregnant several times though.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

NP. What sex were you at birth?

Female

I'm the cis woman from above with different experiences than the other cis woman.

And you believe your only shared experience with other women is “periods”? That’s incredible to me. Literally…not credible.

well perimenopause is an experience now too...but I've only discussed with friends maybe 5-6 times over the last year. we usually talk about other non-female things.

the vast majority of my connections with others aren't based on "female" things.

what are these uniquely "female" connections?

Living in the world as a woman is a “female” thing. Existing from birth to grave as a woman is a “female” thing. It’s so bizarre to me that someone old enough to be in perimenopause thinks that conversations between women must be about periods or some shit…wtf.

we **don't** talk a lot about periods. we talk about non-female things....really I'd just call them "human" things.

what are these "female" topics we should be discussing?

Oh, totally. I got cornered in a bar because I’m a human! The contractor asked to close the deal with my husband because I’m a human. I get paid less for the same job because I’m a human. My doctor discounts my symptoms because I’m a human.

I’m having a hard time believing that you could have lived your entire life as a woman and be so obtuse.

I guess we just have had different experiences. I work in a male-dominated field and usually handle the contractors. 🤷‍♀️

so what % of your time do you spend talking to women about these topics?

Yes, I guess we have had different experiences. I’m really happy for you that you have, somehow, reached middle age without ever having been treated poorly because you were a woman. You are truly a unicorn. By all means, continue to shout down those of us who have been treated differently. You are so brave.

Seems like you could have a meaningful connection with transwomen on topics about being treated poorly...

Perhaps. I’d enjoy a conversation with a transwoman about the differences between being treated like crap from birth vs. being treated like crap after they transitioned as an adult.

I'm guessing you'd have more in common than you think.

Transgender people experience a lot of trauma and deal with a lot of crap.

Yeah..no shit. But I’m not going to be transplained to about what it means to live your entire life as a female.

You aren't interested in making connections with other human beings who've had similar experiences to you?

I have never been harassed or traumatized for being a trans woman. But I bet other transwomen would be great for support with those experiences. This is why specific support groups exist, they don't lump everyone together.

Certainly you make connections and support other people who aren't women, right?

I'm sure you have some guy friends with similar interests, career goals, music tastes, etc. Right?

Sure but they would be "human" topics. I wouldn't talk to a transwoman about typical female topics that she wouldn't relate to. So there wouldn't be a deeper more meaningful connection than with anyone else. Most people compartmentalize their relationships and talk to certain people about some topics but not others.

Do you only have deep relationships with women?

Np but I’d say that’s quite common. Besides my husband all my close relationships are with women.

Generally my husband doesn't approve of my fun weekend trips away with my best guy friend. So, no, I don't have a lot of close male friends I connect with on a deep level. Some would call that an emotion affair.

I've had (and have) some "deep" relationships with men, but none were an emotional affair. Neighbors, colleagues, college friends. We talk about parenting, life, work, etc. Very platonic.

Then we have a different definition of deep.

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an old thread and interesting to come back to now.

Today I was thinking about what is seemingly happening in academia: many are repeating the “trans women are completely indistinguishable from cis women” line. Which is completely unscientific and incorrect. And much of the media goes right along with it.

I would not be surprised to find that academics and media pushing this groupthink are responsible for the increased distrust of media and academia by certain sectors of our society, to grave effect.

It's not just unscientifically incorrect, it's illogical and absurd. If trans women are just like cis women, then the reverse would be true. I was never born with a penis, never had to have any part of me altered to fit what I felt like on the inside. My experience as a cis woman is completely different than that of a trans woman. I would not pretend to understand their experience on any level. It must be incredibly difficult. I've had difficulties from being a woman, but I can't think of one true overlap with a trans woman. I've never had to struggle to get anyone else to accept me as being a woman.

We have all been told that using common sense is unacceptable. And so here we are.

And my experience as a cis woman is completely different than your experience as a cis woman. I would never to pretend to understand your experience either. And you don't understand mine either.

This is why the "indistinguishable" term is so absurd . Because of experiences, which have some overlap almost no matter who we are talking about.
My point was specifically within the "woman" experience. Within that woman experience, I submit I will share significant overlap with another cis gendered woman, but also a lot of individual experiences that don't overlap. With a trans woman, I doubt I would have a lot of "woman" experience overlap, but quite a bit of human experience overlap, but a total absence of the trans experience. Not a lot of overlap there.

What % of your experiences are "woman" though? I can think of very few and certainly none that provide significant or sustained connection to others.

menstruation
cramps
perimenopause

I mean, you can only talk about getting your period so many times with your friends...

Women spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy, birthing babies, body changes, breast feeding and on and on. Those are pretty powerful connections. So, none? Really? Do you know many women?

We also talk about our experiences growing up as girls and women, and about being sexually harassed by men for being women. At least I have with my female friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that everything is a human experience is ridiculous. The poster who keep insisting that periods are the main "womanly" topic is thinking in terms of an ideal society where men and women are equal. We know that is not true in various realms as pointed out by another poster. This is even worse in other countries and societies where women as a group suffer more than men. The combination of biology and society have real world implications for women.

Take the issue of giving birth. Women are not equal in this regard. They generally have a time frame of 2 decades when they can give birth if they choose to. In that same time frame, they are likely in the most critical time of building their careers. A man can set up his career and then get married and have children. In addition, men may have children earlier, but generally don't take on the brunt of childcare duties (yes, we know they should, but it is not true for many couples from varying backgrounds).
More importantly, men can have children even into their 60's. Do men worry about this deadline that women face? This is just one example of a womanly topic that is forefront on many women's minds who may or may not have given birth. It is a topic that is not simply about exchanging breastfeeding tips and has many deeper implications on long-term career choices, time and money spent on IVF, marriage, etc. Period poster seems to think issues specific to women have finite time frames of relevance. On the other side, who bears the most burden of contraception--whether it is taking a pill, or inserting an IUD? We can go on and on.

But, see, the "we are all human" poster doesn't have kids. So this topic is boring to her. Therefore it is boring and of little consequence to anyone else and should never be discussed amongst other women. Can't we just talk about books and movies instead?

I do have kids, but I haven't given birth. I was pregnant several times though.

Cool, but do you respect that others maybe want to talk about it more often and in greater detail than you do with others who have undergone the same experiences? My neighbors, friends, and colleagues who are male can't relate to my fertility treatments and sometimes those conversations aren't appropriate at work or when we're both grabbing our mail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The idea that everything is a human experience is ridiculous. The poster who keep insisting that periods are the main "womanly" topic is thinking in terms of an ideal society where men and women are equal. We know that is not true in various realms as pointed out by another poster. This is even worse in other countries and societies where women as a group suffer more than men. The combination of biology and society have real world implications for women.

Take the issue of giving birth. Women are not equal in this regard. They generally have a time frame of 2 decades when they can give birth if they choose to. In that same time frame, they are likely in the most critical time of building their careers. A man can set up his career and then get married and have children. In addition, men may have children earlier, but generally don't take on the brunt of childcare duties (yes, we know they should, but it is not true for many couples from varying backgrounds).
More importantly, men can have children even into their 60's. Do men worry about this deadline that women face? This is just one example of a womanly topic that is forefront on many women's minds who may or may not have given birth. It is a topic that is not simply about exchanging breastfeeding tips and has many deeper implications on long-term career choices, time and money spent on IVF, marriage, etc. Period poster seems to think issues specific to women have finite time frames of relevance. On the other side, who bears the most burden of contraception--whether it is taking a pill, or inserting an IUD? We can go on and on.

Some women certainly talk about those topics more than I did. But is that really *all* they talk about from age 30-45?

We struggled with recurrent pregnancy loss for years and eventually adopted, but that wasn't the ONLY thing I did - or talked about - for those 5 years. I still talked to my guy friends. I still talked about non-female/reproduction topics with my female friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that everything is a human experience is ridiculous. The poster who keep insisting that periods are the main "womanly" topic is thinking in terms of an ideal society where men and women are equal. We know that is not true in various realms as pointed out by another poster. This is even worse in other countries and societies where women as a group suffer more than men. The combination of biology and society have real world implications for women.

Take the issue of giving birth. Women are not equal in this regard. They generally have a time frame of 2 decades when they can give birth if they choose to. In that same time frame, they are likely in the most critical time of building their careers. A man can set up his career and then get married and have children. In addition, men may have children earlier, but generally don't take on the brunt of childcare duties (yes, we know they should, but it is not true for many couples from varying backgrounds).
More importantly, men can have children even into their 60's. Do men worry about this deadline that women face? This is just one example of a womanly topic that is forefront on many women's minds who may or may not have given birth. It is a topic that is not simply about exchanging breastfeeding tips and has many deeper implications on long-term career choices, time and money spent on IVF, marriage, etc. Period poster seems to think issues specific to women have finite time frames of relevance. On the other side, who bears the most burden of contraception--whether it is taking a pill, or inserting an IUD? We can go on and on.

But, see, the "we are all human" poster doesn't have kids. So this topic is boring to her. Therefore it is boring and of little consequence to anyone else and should never be discussed amongst other women. Can't we just talk about books and movies instead?

I do have kids, but I haven't given birth. I was pregnant several times though.

Cool, but do you respect that others maybe want to talk about it more often and in greater detail than you do with others who have undergone the same experiences? My neighbors, friends, and colleagues who are male can't relate to my fertility treatments and sometimes those conversations aren't appropriate at work or when we're both grabbing our mail.

Sure. But your connection to women (and other humans) wasn't limited to the fertility treatments. And you probably didn't talk to all women about them - probably just other women who've also gone through them. Also not a universal experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that everything is a human experience is ridiculous. The poster who keep insisting that periods are the main "womanly" topic is thinking in terms of an ideal society where men and women are equal. We know that is not true in various realms as pointed out by another poster. This is even worse in other countries and societies where women as a group suffer more than men. The combination of biology and society have real world implications for women.

Take the issue of giving birth. Women are not equal in this regard. They generally have a time frame of 2 decades when they can give birth if they choose to. In that same time frame, they are likely in the most critical time of building their careers. A man can set up his career and then get married and have children. In addition, men may have children earlier, but generally don't take on the brunt of childcare duties (yes, we know they should, but it is not true for many couples from varying backgrounds).
More importantly, men can have children even into their 60's. Do men worry about this deadline that women face? This is just one example of a womanly topic that is forefront on many women's minds who may or may not have given birth. It is a topic that is not simply about exchanging breastfeeding tips and has many deeper implications on long-term career choices, time and money spent on IVF, marriage, etc. Period poster seems to think issues specific to women have finite time frames of relevance. On the other side, who bears the most burden of contraception--whether it is taking a pill, or inserting an IUD? We can go on and on.

But, see, the "we are all human" poster doesn't have kids. So this topic is boring to her. Therefore it is boring and of little consequence to anyone else and should never be discussed amongst other women. Can't we just talk about books and movies instead?

I do have kids, but I haven't given birth. I was pregnant several times though.

Cool, but do you respect that others maybe want to talk about it more often and in greater detail than you do with others who have undergone the same experiences? My neighbors, friends, and colleagues who are male can't relate to my fertility treatments and sometimes those conversations aren't appropriate at work or when we're both grabbing our mail.

Sure. But your connection to women (and other humans) wasn't limited to the fertility treatments. And you probably didn't talk to all women about them - probably just other women who've also gone through them. Also not a universal experience.

You're right, its not universal. So I seek out women with the same experience. Not all women. No men. And not transwomen. That's the point. You struggled to think of anything beyond periods we could discuss. Is your mind blown yet?