"Opening up" means risking your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be zero assistance to states that re-open and have skyrocketing rates of covid-19. No respirators should be sent. No Federal aid. Nothing.

Right. Punish all the innocent citizens who had no say in the matter, including the elderly and children. Collective punishment. Nice.

Well then stay home! Which is it?

If a state opens and then employers expect people to return to work and then people lose their jobs but don’t qualify for UI - which they may not if they’re terminated, you’re going to withhold healthcare from them? How incredibly cruel some of you are. How binary and unfeeling and privileged and completely out of touch with average hardworking people - who don’t have the federal job for life and don’t make six figured to line their savings.

The states are opening because of the Republicans in power and Trump supporters protesting. It’s what the people want.

Also I’m not a Fed. I own a company with 45 employees who are being paid through this. My family is making sacrifices for them. So STFU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again for the 60% of the United States that is healthy and again has very little risk of serious complications

Why aren't we allowing at least social distancing with masks

We don't know which 60% it is, which is why we should have already run about 5 million tests with another 50 million in the pipeline. Without it, we have NO idea where things can be opened, and where quarantining should be happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like there’s some straw man stuff going on here. Do proponents of phased reopenings opoose suggestions that those individuals in vulnerable groups should continue to stay home? Do they oppose mask wearing per CDC guidelines? Do they oppose testing and tracing? Do they oppose social distancing as much as possible once they are outside or in businesses? Maybe there’s a reasonable compromise short of the Mayor in Jaws’ everyone in, the water is safe and chicken littles’ nope, not sticking my head out.

Yes they oppose anything that involves being told what to do. Period. Like a three year old.

Are the protesters in Michigan (who Trump openly supports) wearing masks? Are they advocating for a coordinated national effort re: testing? The protesters are literally protesting against social distancing.

Where is the straw man?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Which WHO test are you referring to?
2. Where exactly are these WHO tests?

I am not sure if you are just being argumentative or you really want to know. But a German laboratory developed a coronavirus test that was adopted by the WHO and offered to other countries. The US developed its own test which was initially flawed. I am not sure which countries are using the WHO test now, but I believe Germany is since it was developed there.


The Who never offered the US tests. The CDC has always developed its own tests.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/us-coronavirus-test/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there's no magic pot of money for perpetual government assistance. High unemployment and prolonged lockdowns will cause civil unrest. You don't care about job losses because you can afford to hunker down in your comfortable house with your adequate savings while millions suffer.

Mortality rate less than 2%. We have ramped up our medical preparedness, and there are empty beds and unused ventilators even in "hotspots". Drug overdoses, suicide, influenza, heart disease, cancer kill more people annually. Crazy anti-vaxxers will never immunize. We need herd immunity to squelch the virus, not hiding in our homes.

The WHO is in China's pocket, the director is corrupt. If they are squealing about funding, let China fund them. China pays about 10% of what we pay the WHO, and they can afford more.

Since you had to make it about Trump, I'll flip the script. This plan to control everyone's movements, make people dependent on government payouts, and destroy civil liberties is a leftist wet dream. Don't pretend you're not enjoying this.

Totally agree with this.
And, I'll add...... there is a rise in suicides during financial crises. https://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2014/06/12/more-than-10000-suicides-tied-to-economic-crisis-study-says/#2e0097b77ae2
People want to be productive. Being forced to remain at home causes depression for many. And, there is also the concern for domestic abuse and child abuse.
I can't imagine what it's like for some of these people who are confined to their homes 24/7 with their abusers. And, the financial stress isn't going to make the abuser's behavior any better.

All you people ever have are lies and distortions. You act all concerned about people when you just want to use them as pawns to support your ideology.

https://www.history.com/news/great-depression-economy-life-expectancy

“In fact, historical research shows that during the 20th century, increases in U.S. mortality often occurred during times of economic prosperity, while decreases occurred during economic depressions or recessions.“


Now that you know the truth will you start to support more social distancing? Of course not, because you don’t actually give a shit about people dying. You just value he economy more than human life.


Why do you want more people to die?

Oh, FFS.

Some of you are acting like there is nothing between a total shut down and opening up full bore.
It IS possible to open up and still have reasonable social distancing, making sure personal hygiene is a top priority, and putting other protection in place.
And, here's a newsflash..... our economy dies.... our national security dies..... our country dies.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty certain that at least some people who aren’t part of the “ruling” class would benefit if some businesses opened up if it was deemed safe by reasonable governors of their respective states.

They will benefit right up to the point that they are infected with coronavirus.

And 99% plus will survive it and go on to see another day.

Exactly. I mean just look at VA’s number of deaths. For a state this big, we have 231 deaths. Most of those deaths are coming from people over 70 years old with other complications. I mean, yeah I understand social distancing and whatnot, but is all of this worth it for such a low number of people?

For all the people who give the stats on car accidents, the flu, a shooting, etc as being risks that are just as deadly....it’s hard to argue against them at this point.

I’m game for doing this for another month. But if the numbers remain low, people are going to be pissed off if they’re losing their livelihoods just because 300 people died.

Maybe give this a bit more thought? Social distancing has kept death numbers low so you want to end social distancing? That's like building a levee to prevent floods and then dismantling it because you haven't had a flood.

We have to take the necessary steps to prevent a resurgence before we can re-open safely. Of course, if you want to open unsafely, please go first.

Yeah but we can’t do it forever. That’s all I’m saying. 2-3 months is acceptable. Anymore than that is just overkill, especially if we aren’t seeing the numbers drastically jump up. We can’t live in fear forever.

TB and Ebola are much deadlier and as easy to spread as COVID. We aren’t doing the same thing for that. But can’t put everyone lives on hold for 6 months for that long for something that has a low death rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like there’s some straw man stuff going on here. Do proponents of phased reopenings opoose suggestions that those individuals in vulnerable groups should continue to stay home? Do they oppose mask wearing per CDC guidelines? Do they oppose testing and tracing? Do they oppose social distancing as much as possible once they are outside or in businesses? Maybe there’s a reasonable compromise short of the Mayor in Jaws’ everyone in, the water is safe and chicken littles’ nope, not sticking my head out.

Yes they oppose anything that involves being told what to do. Period. Like a three year old.

Are the protesters in Michigan (who Trump openly supports) wearing masks? Are they advocating for a coordinated national effort re: testing? The protesters are literally protesting against social distancing.

Where is the straw man?

The straw man, recreated by you in even fuller firm, is in thinking that there are no reasonable people who think there should be phased reopenings, if appropriate.

[Anonymous]

The problem is Trump supporters think social distancing and stay at home orders are for Liberal pu££ies. Trump politicized this whole thing when he said it was a hoax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's stay shutdown for the next 18 months.

Just until the day after Biden wins the election. Then the media shall never speak of Corona virus again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there's no magic pot of money for perpetual government assistance. High unemployment and prolonged lockdowns will cause civil unrest. You don't care about job losses because you can afford to hunker down in your comfortable house with your adequate savings while millions suffer.

Mortality rate less than 2%. We have ramped up our medical preparedness, and there are empty beds and unused ventilators even in "hotspots". Drug overdoses, suicide, influenza, heart disease, cancer kill more people annually. Crazy anti-vaxxers will never immunize. We need herd immunity to squelch the virus, not hiding in our homes.

The WHO is in China's pocket, the director is corrupt. If they are squealing about funding, let China fund them. China pays about 10% of what we pay the WHO, and they can afford more.

Since you had to make it about Trump, I'll flip the script. This plan to control everyone's movements, make people dependent on government payouts, and destroy civil liberties is a leftist wet dream. Don't pretend you're not enjoying this.

Totally agree with this.
And, I'll add...... there is a rise in suicides during financial crises. https://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2014/06/12/more-than-10000-suicides-tied-to-economic-crisis-study-says/#2e0097b77ae2
People want to be productive. Being forced to remain at home causes depression for many. And, there is also the concern for domestic abuse and child abuse.
I can't imagine what it's like for some of these people who are confined to their homes 24/7 with their abusers. And, the financial stress isn't going to make the abuser's behavior any better.

All you people ever have are lies and distortions. You act all concerned about people when you just want to use them as pawns to support your ideology.

https://www.history.com/news/great-depression-economy-life-expectancy

“In fact, historical research shows that during the 20th century, increases in U.S. mortality often occurred during times of economic prosperity, while decreases occurred during economic depressions or recessions.“


Now that you know the truth will you start to support more social distancing? Of course not, because you don’t actually give a shit about people dying. You just value he economy more than human life.


Why do you want more people to die?

Oh, FFS.

Some of you are acting like there is nothing between a total shut down and opening up full bore.
It IS possible to open up and still have reasonable social distancing, making sure personal hygiene is a top priority, and putting other protection in place.
And, here's a newsflash..... our economy dies.... our national security dies..... our country dies.

This.

We can go to Walmart and Lowe’s and social distancing is “encouraged” But they can still operate. So they might as well do it for every other business. If the company is able to operate and telework, great. But the small mom and pop shops shouldn’t have to suffer.

I read a story earlier about wineries being shut down. And it’s insane because you’re literally outdoors in most wineries around here. So the ABC store can be crowded in a small space but we can’t go to a 5 acre winery? It makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's stay shutdown for the next 18 months.

Just until the day after Biden wins the election. Then the media shall never speak of Corona virus again.

Oh is that what QAnon told you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is Trump supporters think social distancing and stay at home orders are for Liberal pu££ies. Trump politicized this whole thing when he said it was a hoax.

C’mon. The polls show the strong majority of Republicans favor social distancing for a longer period over too-soon reopenings. Try not to see things in such a binary way.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Here are a few things that I think are readily apparent:

1) Without a vaccine, near universal testing, or sweeping use of PPE, "opening up" will spread the coronavirus. We don't have to guess about this. Just look at the Smithfield Foods meat processing plant in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Nearly 600 employees have tested positive for COVID-19. In addition, 135 others have caught it from those employees. The plant has now been forced to close.

2) Many of the loudest voices calling for "opening up" will not be putting themselves at risk. Higher income folks will continue to telework and socially distance themselves. Trump and Pence dispute the need for widespread testing, but require anyone coming into contact with them be tested beforehand. This sort of hypocrisy will extend throughout the ruling class. "Opening up" means telling working folks to risk their lives for the stock portfolios of those who will remain safely protected.

3) It is true that job losses and economic suffering are being caused by the shutdown. The impact of this can be reduced through government assistance. There is no cure for death.

4) Trump, by offering public support for those protesting shutdown polices, is willing to sacrifice even his own supporters. Similarly, with deaths heavily weighted toward the elderly, Trump willingly endangers the most dependable source of Republican votes.

5) The "original sin" of the US response to COVID-19 was the failure to introduce widespread testing. This, combined with a lost six weeks while Trump attempted to deny the reality of the epidemic, has caused a deep setback for the US response and led to countless unnecessary deaths. Trump is simultaneously pushing testing responsibility to governors and supporting protests against those same governors. He may well have calculated that renewed disease outbreaks in Democratic-led states would help him politically. He is desperate to place blame on everyone from mayors, governors, and members of Congress, to the WHO, or to the media, but will accept no responsibility himself. He is driven by political expediency and willing to sacrifice lives in the process.

The bottom line is that if someone wants to "open up", tell them to go first. Don't put yourself at risk for someone else's stock portfolio or Trump's political goals.

Amen. Still can’t get my teen a test day 15, fever returned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's stay shutdown for the next 18 months.

Just until the day after Biden wins the election. Then the media shall never speak of Corona virus again.

And what, the media will talk about the studies purporting to show that conservatives are biologically primed to fear things more than liberals do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is Trump supporters think social distancing and stay at home orders are for Liberal pu££ies. Trump politicized this whole thing when he said it was a hoax.

That is such BS. I see the liberals thinking there is nothing between full shut down and opening as business as usual.

And, as for your second comment..... read and learn......