Sidewalk in Bethesda to keep kids and adults safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This situation is exactly why some parents still take and meet their kids at the bus stop even though they could walk by themselves.

This is exactly why I do. My neighborhood does not have sidewalks and drivers speed.

The mother was at the bus stop to meet her child. So that doesn't help, either.

The mom saw her child being run over the bus?????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will get flamed for this but kids need to be taught safety. They can't be ushered across the street by crossing guards. I know things happen and NOTHING can prevent an accident from occurring occasionally but crossing the street is a life skill these kids need to master before something like this happens. Crossing guards who stop traffic for kids to cross are doing them a disservice. They need to learn to cross an intersection that is fully functional.

Again, I know I'll get flamed for this but the crossing guards who stop traffic instead of working with traffic -- i.e., holding the kids on the corner until the light changes and then helping them cross, instead of STOPPING traffic that has the right of way -- don't help them learn this important life skill.

Again, not saying that has anything to do with yesterday's terrible accident -- just an observation I've made since my DC started school.

Yes, you're going to get flamed for it.

Kids are going to be kids. Roads need to be designed so that they are safe for kids who are being kids.

Also, PLENTY can be done to prevent crashes.

Also, when there is a crossing guard with a stop sign, drivers do not have the right of way. That's the whole point of having a crossing guard with a stop sign. What's more, most of the crossing guards are at intersections where the law requires drivers to stop for pedestrians. It's just that most drivers do not obey that law. Most drivers probably don't even know about that law.

You are stating the obvious.

[Anonymous]

You do realize that in SOME neighborhoods kids are doing the crossing guards duty and some of htem
are precisely assigned for the buses and they supervise the situation monitoring kids getting on and off
the buses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

Actually there are few technical barriers to putting them into existing neighborhoods. The barriers are the people who don't want sidewalks, and a transportation budget that doesn't prioritize funding for sidewalk construction.

That's an absurdly narrow view of things. Yes, we have the technical wherewithall to put in sidewalks. But there are lots of issues in many older neighborhoods that make it difficult, though not impossible, to put them in.

Are there particular problems, in particular places? Of course there are. But that doesn't explain the lack of sidewalks in the many, many, many places in the county where there aren't those problems.

Our neighborhood doesn't get bus service nor has sidewalks on every street. They need to provide one or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain again why sidewalks keep kids safe? I've honestly never thought about them like that before. I thought it's so people could push strollers etc. Someone said if they don't have sidewalks then kids will always walk on the actual road instead to get to school. Is that right? Why don't they walk across the grass?

Because grass isn’t always available. If it is it could be wet or a car is parked there or a huge pile of leaves. There are endless reasons. My DS has to walk on Bradley Blvd when he walks home from school and it’s an extremely dangerous road with little room to walk in many areas.

+1 It isn't like there's a nice strip of grass along the road. People put mailboxes, cars, etc. along roads. On trash day, trash cans go out there. And when it snows, the snow gets pushed up against the side of the road. Same with leaves.

You still can have a sidewalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curiously enough lots of McLean has no sidewalks either. What's wrong with those places?

They were built to be purposely unfriendly for pedestrians. It's a feature, not a bug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about installing little bus shelters by every school bus stop, Kids would have a covered
place to wait and there would be so much less chaos getting in and off the buss.

I know. Money. But how about letting businesses to found them in exchange for free
advertising? Or charity founding them one at the time. In few years every bus stop
could be covered!

Until then how about making some rule that kids that get off the buss HAVE to
congregate on the side of the bus in a group and WAIT till the buss leaves
the place before they will start walking in all directions?

People object to sidewalks. You think they're going to allow bus shelters, with advertising?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curiously enough lots of McLean has no sidewalks either. What's wrong with those places?

They were built to be purposely unfriendly for pedestrians. It's a feature, not a bug.

Many homes were built in the 40-50's and at best most families had one car and traffic/driving was not as much of a concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about installing little bus shelters by every school bus stop, Kids would have a covered
place to wait and there would be so much less chaos getting in and off the buss.

I know. Money. But how about letting businesses to found them in exchange for free
advertising? Or charity founding them one at the time. In few years every bus stop
could be covered!

Until then how about making some rule that kids that get off the buss HAVE to
congregate on the side of the bus in a group and WAIT till the buss leaves
the place before they will start walking in all directions?

People object to sidewalks. You think they're going to allow bus shelters, with advertising?

They aren't going to put bus shelters for school kids because the stops change every few years. And, where would they put them. This is why parents need to be proactive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me what are the arguments against the sidewalk? Who in their right
mind would oppose them?

Is it a mindset based on - no sidewalk, less pedestrian traffic near my property?
Or in general.. I hate people and sidewalk means people?
Or is it no sidewalks- no snow showering?

What is it? How anyone would like to live this day and age in the urban area where
people have to hope on the grass when a maniac drive by 60mph, where there
is no safety zone, dedicated for pedestrian called side. wallk. so they can walk
safely, jog, stroll, walk the dogs, walk with kids.. SAFELY?

What kind of mentality is this?

This and other articles about the “sidewalk wars” in the Hawthorne neighborhood of Chevy Chase DC might help acquaint you with this mindset.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/06/20/this-dc-neighborhood-is-at-war-over-sidewalks/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me what are the arguments against the sidewalk? Who in their right
mind would oppose them?

Is it a mindset based on - no sidewalk, less pedestrian traffic near my property?
Or in general.. I hate people and sidewalk means people?
Or is it no sidewalks- no snow showering?

What is it? How anyone would like to live this day and age in the urban area where
people have to hope on the grass when a maniac drive by 60mph, where there
is no safety zone, dedicated for pedestrian called side. wallk. so they can walk
safely, jog, stroll, walk the dogs, walk with kids.. SAFELY?

What kind of mentality is this?

This and other articles about the “sidewalk wars” in the Hawthorne neighborhood of Chevy Chase DC might help acquaint you with this mindset.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/06/20/this-dc-neighborhood-is-at-war-over-sidewalks/

P.S. Here’s one quote:

“The law was a shock to a neighborhood where front yards have long been thought of as private, not public, space. Residents argued that sidewalks would fundamentally change the character of Hawthorne, which was developed in the 1940s in typical suburban style: wide roads, big yards, no commercial streets, no sidewalks. As part of the DC region with the thickest tree canopy in the city, Hawthorne’s residents worried that building sidewalks would mean killing the beautiful old trees–chestnut, beech, dogwood–for which the neighborhood’s streets are named.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me what are the arguments against the sidewalk? Who in their right
mind would oppose them?

Is it a mindset based on - no sidewalk, less pedestrian traffic near my property?
Or in general.. I hate people and sidewalk means people?
Or is it no sidewalks- no snow showering?

What is it? How anyone would like to live this day and age in the urban area where
people have to hope on the grass when a maniac drive by 60mph, where there
is no safety zone, dedicated for pedestrian called side. wallk. so they can walk
safely, jog, stroll, walk the dogs, walk with kids.. SAFELY?

What kind of mentality is this?

Good grief. Because while I'd guess most people would welcome sidewalks, retrofittign them into existing, old neighborhoods poses significant challenges, which have been itemized at length in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do realize that in SOME neighborhoods kids are doing the crossing guards duty and some of htem
are precisely assigned for the buses and they supervise the situation monitoring kids getting on and off
the buses?

No, they are not doing the crossing gaurds duty. They are being patrols.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you lock your doors at night or do you just count on murderers and burglars following the rules?

In addition, it is easy to say "just put in sidewalks" but sidewalks are very expensive and the truth is there a limited amount of resources. When you do have a sidewalk things can still happen as we had with the boy biking on Old Georgetown. If the sidewalks were wider and there was a wall between the traffic and the sidewalk it would be even safer so where do you stop? The fact of the matter is that people are fallible and imperfect and accidents are going to happen even with the best of preparation and intentions. I have a friend who fell down the stairs and died. It would be safe to build every home on one level but we don't because the risk is worth it to us. Everything has a cost benefit analysis attached to it. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do every day. When there is an accident and someone in a smaller or cheaper car is killed we don't say "Every citizen has a right to a really safe car" but more people die in cars than being hit by them. Is it worth $500 million (guess) to install sidewalks in all of MoCo when you could spend that money on repairing major roadways so there are fewer crashes or on subsidizing affordable housing for citizens? There are choices to be made. We can't have everything.

You stop when it's safe.

We spend a vast amount of public money every year on a transportation system that is not safe. Please don't make excuses for it.

If a lack of sidewalks had caused these two recent accidents then it would happen way, way more often. Freak accidents happen, no matter what you do to be safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you lock your doors at night or do you just count on murderers and burglars following the rules?

In addition, it is easy to say "just put in sidewalks" but sidewalks are very expensive and the truth is there a limited amount of resources. When you do have a sidewalk things can still happen as we had with the boy biking on Old Georgetown. If the sidewalks were wider and there was a wall between the traffic and the sidewalk it would be even safer so where do you stop? The fact of the matter is that people are fallible and imperfect and accidents are going to happen even with the best of preparation and intentions. I have a friend who fell down the stairs and died. It would be safe to build every home on one level but we don't because the risk is worth it to us. Everything has a cost benefit analysis attached to it. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do every day. When there is an accident and someone in a smaller or cheaper car is killed we don't say "Every citizen has a right to a really safe car" but more people die in cars than being hit by them. Is it worth $500 million (guess) to install sidewalks in all of MoCo when you could spend that money on repairing major roadways so there are fewer crashes or on subsidizing affordable housing for citizens? There are choices to be made. We can't have everything.

You stop when it's safe.

We spend a vast amount of public money every year on a transportation system that is not safe. Please don't make excuses for it.

If a lack of sidewalks had caused these two recent accidents then it would happen way, way more often. Freak accidents happen, no matter what you do to be safe.

It does happen way, way more often. You just don't know about it. Drivers have killed 14 pedestrians so far this year in Montgomery County. Drivers have struck over 612 pedestrians and bicyclists so far this year.

This was not a "freak accident".