Sidewalk in Bethesda to keep kids and adults safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are some excellent educational resources at this link for teaching students safe pedestrian and biking practices: https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/safe-routes-school/srts-program/basics. We can all do a lot more to work with our own kids on these safety tips, and probably more via PTAs and other school forums.

I'll tell you what's endangering kids in my neighborhood: drivers. Drivers driving way too fast, drivers on phones, drivers disobeying the law by not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks (note that ALL intersections are crosswalks, including intersections where there aren't painted crosswalks), drivers rolling through stop signs, drivers barely even slowing down to turn right on red.

Until that changes, "safe pedestrian and biking practices" basically boils down to: Try really, really hard to stay out of the way of drivers, so that they don't hit you.

Well the first thing you or your kids need to do is make sure you aren't dealing with one of the drivers you described. LOOK AT THE DRIVER. I never enter the street without looking at the driver. I can't understand people who just walk into the street lost in thought. MAKE EYE CONTACT. I do this as a driver, as ell -- I look at the pedestrians and make contact. I also look at the other drivers before I go. I'm paying attention. Make sure I am -- and you can bitch all you want about how unfair it is that you HAVE to do this, but I dont get the complaining. It takes a split second. It is ingrained in me, and I am making sure it is ingrained in my kids as well.

Really not that hard and not worth complaining about something this simple.

A Walter Johnson High School student is in the hospital with life-threatening injuries this morning because a driver broke two laws - not stopping for a stopped school bus, and not stopping for a vehicle that's stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

But sure, let's keep talking about kids' behavior and how they have to focus and behave perfectly at all times if they don't want to be killed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain again why sidewalks keep kids safe? I've honestly never thought about them like that before. I thought it's so people could push strollers etc. Someone said if they don't have sidewalks then kids will always walk on the actual road instead to get to school. Is that right? Why don't they walk across the grass?

Because grass isn’t always available. If it is it could be wet or a car is parked there or a huge pile of leaves. There are endless reasons. My DS has to walk on Bradley Blvd when he walks home from school and it’s an extremely dangerous road with little room to walk in many areas.

Also, just think about it people:

Vehicles can fairly easily accidentally drive on grass. It's much more difficult to accidentally drive up onto a sidewalk.

This really isn't a difficult concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain again why sidewalks keep kids safe? I've honestly never thought about them like that before. I thought it's so people could push strollers etc. Someone said if they don't have sidewalks then kids will always walk on the actual road instead to get to school. Is that right? Why don't they walk across the grass?

Because grass isn’t always available. If it is it could be wet or a car is parked there or a huge pile of leaves. There are endless reasons. My DS has to walk on Bradley Blvd when he walks home from school and it’s an extremely dangerous road with little room to walk in many areas.

Yeah, this is a really dangerous road. This would be a good place to put those shiny bendable stick thingys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are some excellent educational resources at this link for teaching students safe pedestrian and biking practices: https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/safe-routes-school/srts-program/basics. We can all do a lot more to work with our own kids on these safety tips, and probably more via PTAs and other school forums.

I'll tell you what's endangering kids in my neighborhood: drivers. Drivers driving way too fast, drivers on phones, drivers disobeying the law by not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks (note that ALL intersections are crosswalks, including intersections where there aren't painted crosswalks), drivers rolling through stop signs, drivers barely even slowing down to turn right on red.

Until that changes, "safe pedestrian and biking practices" basically boils down to: Try really, really hard to stay out of the way of drivers, so that they don't hit you.

Well the first thing you or your kids need to do is make sure you aren't dealing with one of the drivers you described. LOOK AT THE DRIVER. I never enter the street without looking at the driver. I can't understand people who just walk into the street lost in thought. MAKE EYE CONTACT. I do this as a driver, as ell -- I look at the pedestrians and make contact. I also look at the other drivers before I go. I'm paying attention. Make sure I am -- and you can bitch all you want about how unfair it is that you HAVE to do this, but I dont get the complaining. It takes a split second. It is ingrained in me, and I am making sure it is ingrained in my kids as well.

Really not that hard and not worth complaining about something this simple.

A Walter Johnson High School student is in the hospital with life-threatening injuries this morning because a driver broke two laws - not stopping for a stopped school bus, and not stopping for a vehicle that's stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

But sure, let's keep talking about kids' behavior and how they have to focus and behave perfectly at all times if they don't want to be killed.

Or, we can just let kids continue to be killed until drivers change. How is that any better?

Teach your children to be in charge of their own safety. It is not a benefit to think others will continue to coddle your little ducklings. They clearly won't, whether they should or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain again why sidewalks keep kids safe? I've honestly never thought about them like that before. I thought it's so people could push strollers etc. Someone said if they don't have sidewalks then kids will always walk on the actual road instead to get to school. Is that right? Why don't they walk across the grass?

Because grass isn’t always available. If it is it could be wet or a car is parked there or a huge pile of leaves. There are endless reasons. My DS has to walk on Bradley Blvd when he walks home from school and it’s an extremely dangerous road with little room to walk in many areas.

+1 It isn't like there's a nice strip of grass along the road. People put mailboxes, cars, etc. along roads. On trash day, trash cans go out there. And when it snows, the snow gets pushed up against the side of the road. Same with leaves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are some excellent educational resources at this link for teaching students safe pedestrian and biking practices: https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/safe-routes-school/srts-program/basics. We can all do a lot more to work with our own kids on these safety tips, and probably more via PTAs and other school forums.

I'll tell you what's endangering kids in my neighborhood: drivers. Drivers driving way too fast, drivers on phones, drivers disobeying the law by not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks (note that ALL intersections are crosswalks, including intersections where there aren't painted crosswalks), drivers rolling through stop signs, drivers barely even slowing down to turn right on red.

Until that changes, "safe pedestrian and biking practices" basically boils down to: Try really, really hard to stay out of the way of drivers, so that they don't hit you.

Well the first thing you or your kids need to do is make sure you aren't dealing with one of the drivers you described. LOOK AT THE DRIVER. I never enter the street without looking at the driver. I can't understand people who just walk into the street lost in thought. MAKE EYE CONTACT. I do this as a driver, as ell -- I look at the pedestrians and make contact. I also look at the other drivers before I go. I'm paying attention. Make sure I am -- and you can bitch all you want about how unfair it is that you HAVE to do this, but I dont get the complaining. It takes a split second. It is ingrained in me, and I am making sure it is ingrained in my kids as well.

Really not that hard and not worth complaining about something this simple.

A Walter Johnson High School student is in the hospital with life-threatening injuries this morning because a driver broke two laws - not stopping for a stopped school bus, and not stopping for a vehicle that's stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

But sure, let's keep talking about kids' behavior and how they have to focus and behave perfectly at all times if they don't want to be killed.

Or, we can just let kids continue to be killed until drivers change. How is that any better?

Teach your children to be in charge of their own safety. It is not a benefit to think others will continue to coddle your little ducklings. They clearly won't, whether they should or not.

Like those Kennedy HS kids standing on the sidewalk were in charge of their own safety?

As long as we make it the child's responsibility to not get killed by drivers, drivers are going to keep killing children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are some excellent educational resources at this link for teaching students safe pedestrian and biking practices: https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/safe-routes-school/srts-program/basics. We can all do a lot more to work with our own kids on these safety tips, and probably more via PTAs and other school forums.

I'll tell you what's endangering kids in my neighborhood: drivers. Drivers driving way too fast, drivers on phones, drivers disobeying the law by not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks (note that ALL intersections are crosswalks, including intersections where there aren't painted crosswalks), drivers rolling through stop signs, drivers barely even slowing down to turn right on red.

Until that changes, "safe pedestrian and biking practices" basically boils down to: Try really, really hard to stay out of the way of drivers, so that they don't hit you.

Well the first thing you or your kids need to do is make sure you aren't dealing with one of the drivers you described. LOOK AT THE DRIVER. I never enter the street without looking at the driver. I can't understand people who just walk into the street lost in thought. MAKE EYE CONTACT. I do this as a driver, as ell -- I look at the pedestrians and make contact. I also look at the other drivers before I go. I'm paying attention. Make sure I am -- and you can bitch all you want about how unfair it is that you HAVE to do this, but I dont get the complaining. It takes a split second. It is ingrained in me, and I am making sure it is ingrained in my kids as well.

Really not that hard and not worth complaining about something this simple.

A Walter Johnson High School student is in the hospital with life-threatening injuries this morning because a driver broke two laws - not stopping for a stopped school bus, and not stopping for a vehicle that's stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

But sure, let's keep talking about kids' behavior and how they have to focus and behave perfectly at all times if they don't want to be killed.

Or, we can just let kids continue to be killed until drivers change. How is that any better?

Teach your children to be in charge of their own safety. It is not a benefit to think others will continue to coddle your little ducklings. They clearly won't, whether they should or not.

Like those Kennedy HS kids standing on the sidewalk were in charge of their own safety?

As long as we make it the child's responsibility to not get killed by drivers, drivers are going to keep killing children.

Well I will continue to teach my children to be as safe as they can be in the real world. You do what you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mentioned this issue on another thread. I live on a busy street but my kids are ultimately much safer because we have proper sidewalks. The county should make sidewalks a priority, especially around schools. For example, a few years ago MCPS spent millions to construct Silver Creek Middle School, but most of the neighborhood around the school has no sidewalks.

Quite a few of us in this neighborhood put a huge effort in to try and get sidewalks about 18 months ago. We got it through a county feasibility study, but the neighborhood opposition was extraordinary. The county now won't even hold the public hearing that they're required to hold as the next step in the process. A handful of people controlling the HOA and some very vocally opposed neighbors who called council members and county staff daily have effectively shut this down. Very unkind things were said on the listserv and directly to faces of families and neighbors in support of sidewalks. It's been painful to live through and really damaging to neighborhood relationships. We dread the day that there is an accident involving a neighbor (kid or adult) that makes this seem urgent. It shouldn't take a death to get action on sidewalks. My heart just breaks today reading about the child in Bradley Hills; I can't even fathom the pain of her family, school friends, and community.

What's their problem with sidewalks?!

I live in Kentlands, where we have sidewalks throughout the entire neighborhood. It keeps everyone safer.

Specific complaints raised by neighbors: Too many trees will have to be removed; they don't want to be sued if they fail to clear the sidewalk of snow (county liability policies haven't helped here); "most" children go to private school anyway so why does it matter (wish I were joking about that one and it's not even true); no speed bumps should be installed either because it will take longer to get to the Safeway (again, wish I were joking); oh, and sidewalks reduce property values (also not true).

Wow. Just, wow.

I would just point them to Kentlands and Lakelands as proof that none of their complaints are real.

Also, beyond the selfishness inherent in the private school comment, do they not realize that installing sidewalks is beneficial for everyone?

In some older neighborhoods, it's not as easy as in some newer ones. We have no sidewalks, and would like them. But on just my block, you're talking about either (i) destroying stairs, mature trees, drainage systems, walkways, landscaping, etc., which would require significant expense to replace, if putting the sidewalk on people's properties; or (ii) making an already narrow street even narrower, and likely eliminating parking, where many people don't have driveways.

As I said, we'd love a sidewalk, and the above concerns don't apply to us - but you can't pretend that they aren't legitimate concerns that our neighbors have.

[Anonymous]

A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

Actually there are few technical barriers to putting them into existing neighborhoods. The barriers are the people who don't want sidewalks, and a transportation budget that doesn't prioritize funding for sidewalk construction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mentioned this issue on another thread. I live on a busy street but my kids are ultimately much safer because we have proper sidewalks. The county should make sidewalks a priority, especially around schools. For example, a few years ago MCPS spent millions to construct Silver Creek Middle School, but most of the neighborhood around the school has no sidewalks.

Quite a few of us in this neighborhood put a huge effort in to try and get sidewalks about 18 months ago. We got it through a county feasibility study, but the neighborhood opposition was extraordinary. The county now won't even hold the public hearing that they're required to hold as the next step in the process. A handful of people controlling the HOA and some very vocally opposed neighbors who called council members and county staff daily have effectively shut this down. Very unkind things were said on the listserv and directly to faces of families and neighbors in support of sidewalks. It's been painful to live through and really damaging to neighborhood relationships. We dread the day that there is an accident involving a neighbor (kid or adult) that makes this seem urgent. It shouldn't take a death to get action on sidewalks. My heart just breaks today reading about the child in Bradley Hills; I can't even fathom the pain of her family, school friends, and community.

What's their problem with sidewalks?!

I live in Kentlands, where we have sidewalks throughout the entire neighborhood. It keeps everyone safer.

Specific complaints raised by neighbors: Too many trees will have to be removed; they don't want to be sued if they fail to clear the sidewalk of snow (county liability policies haven't helped here); "most" children go to private school anyway so why does it matter (wish I were joking about that one and it's not even true); no speed bumps should be installed either because it will take longer to get to the Safeway (again, wish I were joking); oh, and sidewalks reduce property values (also not true).

Wow. Just, wow.

I would just point them to Kentlands and Lakelands as proof that none of their complaints are real.

Also, beyond the selfishness inherent in the private school comment, do they not realize that installing sidewalks is beneficial for everyone?

In some older neighborhoods, it's not as easy as in some newer ones. We have no sidewalks, and would like them. But on just my block, you're talking about either (i) destroying stairs, mature trees, drainage systems, walkways, landscaping, etc., which would require significant expense to replace, if putting the sidewalk on people's properties; or (ii) making an already narrow street even narrower, and likely eliminating parking, where many people don't have driveways.

As I said, we'd love a sidewalk, and the above concerns don't apply to us - but you can't pretend that they aren't legitimate concerns that our neighbors have.

It's not putting a sidewalk on people's properties. It's putting a sidewalk on public right-of-way.

And when it comes to parking spaces vs. people's safety, I'll go with people's safety every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

Actually there are few technical barriers to putting them into existing neighborhoods. The barriers are the people who don't want sidewalks, and a transportation budget that doesn't prioritize funding for sidewalk construction.

That's an absurdly narrow view of things. Yes, we have the technical wherewithall to put in sidewalks. But there are lots of issues in many older neighborhoods that make it difficult, though not impossible, to put them in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

Actually there are few technical barriers to putting them into existing neighborhoods. The barriers are the people who don't want sidewalks, and a transportation budget that doesn't prioritize funding for sidewalk construction.

That's an absurdly narrow view of things. Yes, we have the technical wherewithall to put in sidewalks. But there are lots of issues in many older neighborhoods that make it difficult, though not impossible, to put them in.

They're not nearly as hard to install as you think they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mentioned this issue on another thread. I live on a busy street but my kids are ultimately much safer because we have proper sidewalks. The county should make sidewalks a priority, especially around schools. For example, a few years ago MCPS spent millions to construct Silver Creek Middle School, but most of the neighborhood around the school has no sidewalks.

Quite a few of us in this neighborhood put a huge effort in to try and get sidewalks about 18 months ago. We got it through a county feasibility study, but the neighborhood opposition was extraordinary. The county now won't even hold the public hearing that they're required to hold as the next step in the process. A handful of people controlling the HOA and some very vocally opposed neighbors who called council members and county staff daily have effectively shut this down. Very unkind things were said on the listserv and directly to faces of families and neighbors in support of sidewalks. It's been painful to live through and really damaging to neighborhood relationships. We dread the day that there is an accident involving a neighbor (kid or adult) that makes this seem urgent. It shouldn't take a death to get action on sidewalks. My heart just breaks today reading about the child in Bradley Hills; I can't even fathom the pain of her family, school friends, and community.

What's their problem with sidewalks?!

I live in Kentlands, where we have sidewalks throughout the entire neighborhood. It keeps everyone safer.

Specific complaints raised by neighbors: Too many trees will have to be removed; they don't want to be sued if they fail to clear the sidewalk of snow (county liability policies haven't helped here); "most" children go to private school anyway so why does it matter (wish I were joking about that one and it's not even true); no speed bumps should be installed either because it will take longer to get to the Safeway (again, wish I were joking); oh, and sidewalks reduce property values (also not true).

Wow. Just, wow.

I would just point them to Kentlands and Lakelands as proof that none of their complaints are real.

Also, beyond the selfishness inherent in the private school comment, do they not realize that installing sidewalks is beneficial for everyone?

In some older neighborhoods, it's not as easy as in some newer ones. We have no sidewalks, and would like them. But on just my block, you're talking about either (i) destroying stairs, mature trees, drainage systems, walkways, landscaping, etc., which would require significant expense to replace, if putting the sidewalk on people's properties; or (ii) making an already narrow street even narrower, and likely eliminating parking, where many people don't have driveways.

As I said, we'd love a sidewalk, and the above concerns don't apply to us - but you can't pretend that they aren't legitimate concerns that our neighbors have.

It's not putting a sidewalk on people's properties. It's putting a sidewalk on public right-of-way.

And when it comes to parking spaces vs. people's safety, I'll go with people's safety every time.

It's both of those things, actually.

Anyone who claims this is easy obviously isn't familiar with many of the streets at issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

Actually there are few technical barriers to putting them into existing neighborhoods. The barriers are the people who don't want sidewalks, and a transportation budget that doesn't prioritize funding for sidewalk construction.

That's an absurdly narrow view of things. Yes, we have the technical wherewithall to put in sidewalks. But there are lots of issues in many older neighborhoods that make it difficult, though not impossible, to put them in.

They're not nearly as hard to install as you think they are.

If you're looking at just a sidewalk, sure. But when it blows through a set of stairs that leads to a 6 foot elevation, what happens then?