Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have we mentioned yet that they save 50k per year off the bat? And yes, they stretched to far on housing once you consider PITI.

And they're also paying $53,000/year for preschool plus childcare. Hey, here's a new rule . . . when your childcare expenses nearly equal the medial *salary* for the country, you ain't middle class.

It is appalling that (i) this has to be said, and (ii) some dimwits will disagree with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have we mentioned yet that they save 50k per year off the bat? And yes, they stretched to far on housing once you consider PITI.

And they're also paying $53,000/year for preschool plus childcare. Hey, here's a new rule . . . when your childcare expenses nearly equal the medial *salary* for the country, you ain't middle class.

It is appalling that (i) this has to be said, and (ii) some dimwits will disagree with it.

How much is childcare for middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have we mentioned yet that they save 50k per year off the bat? And yes, they stretched to far on housing once you consider PITI.

And they're also paying $53,000/year for preschool plus childcare. Hey, here's a new rule . . . when your childcare expenses nearly equal the medial *salary* for the country, you ain't middle class.

It is appalling that (i) this has to be said, and (ii) some dimwits will disagree with it.

How much is childcare for middle class?

I don't know, but it's obviously not their entire HHI.

Childcare is definitely a huge luxury item for us. We have an after-school nanny that comes out to around probably $1900 month when you add in all the extras (payroll company, bonuses, etc). We also send our kid to whatever summer camp he wants, around $600/week. If we were middle class, we'd do aftercare for around $400/week and the cheaper camps for around $350/week. So basically we pay over 4x as much for childcare than a middle class family.

[Anonymous]

Just 'scrapping' by, huh?
Fix the typos in your title.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have we mentioned yet that they save 50k per year off the bat? And yes, they stretched to far on housing once you consider PITI.

And they're also paying $53,000/year for preschool plus childcare. Hey, here's a new rule . . . when your childcare expenses nearly equal the medial *salary* for the country, you ain't middle class.

It is appalling that (i) this has to be said, and (ii) some dimwits will disagree with it.

How much is childcare for middle class?

Say $100,000 is solidly middle class. Assume, after taxes (but not including health care and retirement savings, they take home $80,000. $53,000 in childcare is more that 66% of their take-home.

It's less than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have we mentioned yet that they save 50k per year off the bat? And yes, they stretched to far on housing once you consider PITI.

And they're also paying $53,000/year for preschool plus childcare. Hey, here's a new rule . . . when your childcare expenses nearly equal the medial *salary* for the country, you ain't middle class.

It is appalling that (i) this has to be said, and (ii) some dimwits will disagree with it.

How much is childcare for middle class?

Say $100,000 is solidly middle class. Assume, after taxes (but not including health care and retirement savings, they take home $80,000. $53,000 in childcare is more that 66% of their take-home.

It's less than that.

Middle class families use in-home childcare, frequently unlicensed. They leverage friends and family for childcare. They work offset schedules to avoid having to have childcare (e.g. dad has a regular 9-5 job and mom works 3 12hr night shifts a week as a nurse). They stop paying for afterschool care when their kids are still in ES. They don't send their kids to summer camps or, if they do, it's the cheap program at the church or at a county park.

[Anonymous]

$350k for a couple who work full time with young kids is not that much.

$350k with a SAH spouse with no day care or pre school and only one commute who can live further out as no rush to pick up kids is a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have we mentioned yet that they save 50k per year off the bat? And yes, they stretched to far on housing once you consider PITI.

And they're also paying $53,000/year for preschool plus childcare. Hey, here's a new rule . . . when your childcare expenses nearly equal the medial *salary* for the country, you ain't middle class.

It is appalling that (i) this has to be said, and (ii) some dimwits will disagree with it.

I don't even understand how this happens. When my kids were in daycare, preschool was included with that. It was $290/we. 2 kids that was 30k/yr at the peak.

[Anonymous]

Childcare is a luxury for many. One neighbor has five kids and oldest is 13. She is a SAHM. Cant afford to work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$350k for a couple who work full time with young kids is not that much.

$350k with a SAH spouse with no day care or pre school and only one commute who can live further out as no rush to pick up kids is a lot.

Oh, stop. $350K for a couple who works full time with young kids is plenty. Even in the DC area, even in DC proper or close-in suburbs. It's enough. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have we mentioned yet that they save 50k per year off the bat? And yes, they stretched to far on housing once you consider PITI.

And they're also paying $53,000/year for preschool plus childcare. Hey, here's a new rule . . . when your childcare expenses nearly equal the medial *salary* for the country, you ain't middle class.

It is appalling that (i) this has to be said, and (ii) some dimwits will disagree with it.

How much is childcare for middle class?

Well for us -- when we had a child in daycare it was around 12k a year. And our HHI at that time was around 75k. We only have one child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Childcare is a luxury for many. One neighbor has five kids and oldest is 13. She is a SAHM. Cant afford to work

Uh no. Having 5 kids and not having to work is a luxury. Many people who dont have that luxury stop at 1 or 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sad that their third yearly vacation has to be a staycation.

Why is this sad? We make nearly double these people, take 4 weeks off a year, 2 weeks are staycations. I actually LOVE my staycations. So relaxing and such a great opportunity to really reconnect as a family, more so than being on the go when traveling.

You make $650k and get 4 weeks vacation? What do you??

I make 100k over that and get 6 weeks off plus all federal holidays. Standard as you move up the ladder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is that $350k should be a comfortable UMC income. Many people would even consider that rich. But it doesn’t go nearly as far as one would expect. That’s our exact income before bonuses. We spend more on some things, less on others, but this isn’t too far off. We have a lot of expenses to make life as two working parents, with long hours and travel, work. We spent more on a house closer in vs having long commutes. One of our kids requires expensive therapy and tutors. We eat takeout way too often bc we get home too late to cook. We have an after-school nanny to shuttle the kids to appointments and activities. Sure, we could get rid of some of these “luxuries” but then one of us would have to cut back at work and our income would decrease. It would be a different ballgame if one of us made $350k and the other SAH. But there is a high cost associated with having both parents work at relatively high paying but not very flexible job.

And $350K is more than comfortable UMC income. The reason that it "doesn't go nearly as far as one would expect" is that you spend your money on luxuries. If you lived in true middle class areas, say Gaithersburg or Vienna, then you would have loads of disposable cash to take vacations, buy a yacht, and invest in expensive hobbies. Instead you spend your money for the luxury of living close in, for the convenience of having a nanny. And having an lower upper class in come means that when your child has special needs, you can afford to select therapies and tutors that are best suited for your child instead of taking what insurance will cover. You have the option to buy lunch and get takeout when you come home late. A middle class family would be cooking on weekends so that when they come home late, they can heat up a meal. They would be asking friends to carpool or trying to get a retired family member to move to the area to help with transportation for your child. And they wouldn't be paying for extra activities for their children.

Your entire post is filled with luxuries that you justify. Just because you spend all of your income and don't have a lot of disposable income leftover after you've spent it, does not mean that you didn't have a high income to begin with. It just means that you live a much wealthier life-style than a true middle class income could afford.

It's such a joke that the downtown lawyers and doctors and lobbyists are trying to claim being middle class. How do you think the paralegal in your office or the PT therapist that works in the same hospital or the office manager of your lobbyist firm live. They have the same commute issues that you have on 1/3 of your income and may not have a high income spouse to augment their income. These people are middle income staff (as opposed to the building security guard, the janitor or the gift shop clerk at the hospital who are making low income wages). The middle income people have to make the same commute, they have the same issues of childcare, they might have special needs children, and they still have to eat lunch and dinner. How do you think they do this on 1/3 of your income? You've deluded yourself into thinking that a standard with no qualifications defines middle class. It doesn't. The standard of home, childcare, food and expenses is upper middle class at best in the outer suburbs, but when you move everything into the close-in areas, then it becomes completely unattainable in close in. You pay the luxury upcharge to move everything into the convenience zone. And that requires an upper class income to do so.

They're poor. They're not middle class. That's the WHOLE POINT you nitwit. The middle class is being hollowed out. People who used to be middle class (i.e. the office manager) is now in fact poor because it costs so damn much to live in coastal cities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle class people do not own $1.8m houses. Nor do they spend $24,000 on preschool. Or $2,000 a month on food.

What a stupid article.

Actually full-day daycare does cost 18-30k in the DC area.