Reducing the academic load to play elite soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize that if you want to learn something you can just buy a text book and read it through without being in a class

That is the opposite of what is being said here. Don't read the text. Drop the AP classes. Take lower level, less challenging classes.

Suit yourselves. Sounds like a big mistake to me. For every story put out there about some kid that dropped down to lower level academics to spend more time playing soccer for spectacular results, I can show you a thousand that are now driving for Amazon or selling used cars or monitoring the playground at lunch.

No. You can’t. You wish you could since you have a chip in your shoulder about sports. Show me 1 person who is an academy level player who had their college commitment taken away because they dropped AP classes.

Why are you skipping over the content of the education. If you are taking high level courses for the sake of taking high level courses then who cares? Drop them. If you are taking them because you need that information to then take the next level course in that subject and advance your knowledge and education, do not drop them.

So we agree. There is not reason to take AP classes at the point that you know you are going to be committed to a college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not realize this was about boys. Maybe a boy could have a pro soccer career but the chances are basically zero and less then that for girls. But suit yourselves. If my kid even gets a gnat of a thought of pulling back on academics to play more soccer I will shut that down so fast.

The point is not a soccer career. If I were a D1 school recruiter, or a law firm partner, or a consulting firm partner, I would want to have a ex-DA kid that balanced playing at that level with a decent school and decent course load over a kid taking 10 AP classes and has no idea how to be part of a team, socialize with others, or commit themselves to something other than hiding in a basement studying.

I'd want a kid who took 10 AP classes AND played travel soccer or high school soccer over a DA player who dumped the hard academic work to just focus on playing a game.

And who are you... you are not a college admissions office, because I know they want the best athlete with good enough grades and you are not a hiring official because nobody cares about HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no problem with reducing academic load to provide balance. It goes both ways, a kid should not play DA at the detriment of academics but a kid should not just study all the time with no physical outlet or ever having risen to the highest level of some activity. Playing at the highest level of the sport is also a learning tool.

The commitment, teamwork, dedication, and expertise to play at the DA level should not be overlooked as a learning tool to create a well balanced member of society.

I would rather work with a well balanced person than one who spent all his/her time in the books or vice versa on the soccer field.

Again, I say, people like you are why living in this area is so awful. Nobody ever has to rise to the "highest level of some activity." Your poor children. I'm curious: what did you rise to the highest level in? Are you famous for it?

You are talking about parents pushing their 11 year old into travel and he hates soccer.

Every child that I know that rose to that level begged their parents to play more and if anything the parents were either dragged along or were pulling the reins back.

Believe me these are not "poor children" ... these are kids that love what they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not realize this was about boys. Maybe a boy could have a pro soccer career but the chances are basically zero and less then that for girls. But suit yourselves. If my kid even gets a gnat of a thought of pulling back on academics to play more soccer I will shut that down so fast.

The point is not a soccer career. If I were a D1 school recruiter, or a law firm partner, or a consulting firm partner, I would want to have a ex-DA kid that balanced playing at that level with a decent school and decent course load over a kid taking 10 AP classes and has no idea how to be part of a team, socialize with others, or commit themselves to something other than hiding in a basement studying.

You all know that 99.9% of people have no idea, nor do they care, what DA is, right?

The only person that matters is the athletic director at the school and the admissions office.

The rest will come from the college transcript and name of the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not realize this was about boys. Maybe a boy could have a pro soccer career but the chances are basically zero and less then that for girls. But suit yourselves. If my kid even gets a gnat of a thought of pulling back on academics to play more soccer I will shut that down so fast.

The point is not a soccer career. If I were a D1 school recruiter, or a law firm partner, or a consulting firm partner, I would want to have a ex-DA kid that balanced playing at that level with a decent school and decent course load over a kid taking 10 AP classes and has no idea how to be part of a team, socialize with others, or commit themselves to something other than hiding in a basement studying.

I am a law firm partner, and I can tell you at elite firms, sports are a nice garnish, but we are not looking at people who do not have elite academic backgrounds. The decision tree begins with academics, and things like college sports can be a subsequent tiebreaker among second tier of elite students. But so can elite poker play.

But you don't know how many AP classes he took to get into the Ivy so... again... reducing the academic load after know your are committed, not a problem.

[Anonymous]

If the kid values the content of the courses and the education gained, then missing it is a problem. If they are more interested in soccer then the academics they will sacrifice, no problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Homeschooling is not “a much worse HS route”. Plenty of homeschooled kids take a very heavy academic load with rigorous curriculum. There’s a reason homeschoolers have been accepted into and are actively recruited by elite institutions like Harvard, MIT and Stanford. They outperform kids from public school (even when controlling for parents’ education level) plus have additional skills and capabilities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/homeschooling-is-the-new-path-to-harvard-2015-9

I say if it works for the kids and their families and helps them achieve their goals then it sounds like a good idea.

I am willing to bet that the homeschooling of kids who drop out to play DA soccer is generally not on par with HS education. Parents who have been planning out curriculum for many years, sure, maybe some of them are better. Parents with no background who just start in HS so their kid can train five hours a day? Not likely to be good.

Every homeschooler I know do online HS. The curriculum is not created by parents.

I am familiar with the online education process through gymnastics. Except for a few very unusual exceptions (Stanford online, for instance), the education level is definitely weak compared to a good HS. The goal is the float the child along so he or she can focus on sports, not to learn and improve educationally.

I think the sacrifice makes sense for those rare kids who will be able to make a living from sports. For the rest, I honestly haven't seen it work out well. Maybe others have, but I haven't.

This is not the same as not taking APs though. I think not taking APs is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Homeschooling is not “a much worse HS route”. Plenty of homeschooled kids take a very heavy academic load with rigorous curriculum. There’s a reason homeschoolers have been accepted into and are actively recruited by elite institutions like Harvard, MIT and Stanford. They outperform kids from public school (even when controlling for parents’ education level) plus have additional skills and capabilities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/homeschooling-is-the-new-path-to-harvard-2015-9

I say if it works for the kids and their families and helps them achieve their goals then it sounds like a good idea.

I am willing to bet that the homeschooling of kids who drop out to play DA soccer is generally not on par with HS education. Parents who have been planning out curriculum for many years, sure, maybe some of them are better. Parents with no background who just start in HS so their kid can train five hours a day? Not likely to be good.

Every homeschooler I know do online HS. The curriculum is not created by parents.

I am familiar with the online education process through gymnastics. Except for a few very unusual exceptions (Stanford online, for instance), the education level is definitely weak compared to a good HS. The goal is the float the child along so he or she can focus on sports, not to learn and improve educationally.

I think the sacrifice makes sense for those rare kids who will be able to make a living from sports. For the rest, I honestly haven't seen it work out well. Maybe others have, but I haven't.

This is not the same as not taking APs though. I think not taking APs is irrelevant.

There is a living to be made in gymnastics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize that if you want to learn something you can just buy a text book and read it through without being in a class

That is the opposite of what is being said here. Don't read the text. Drop the AP classes. Take lower level, less challenging classes.

Suit yourselves. Sounds like a big mistake to me. For every story put out there about some kid that dropped down to lower level academics to spend more time playing soccer for spectacular results, I can show you a thousand that are now driving for Amazon or selling used cars or monitoring the playground at lunch.

No. You can’t. You wish you could since you have a chip in your shoulder about sports. Show me 1 person who is an academy level player who had their college commitment taken away because they dropped AP classes.

Why are you skipping over the content of the education. If you are taking high level courses for the sake of taking high level courses then who cares? Drop them. If you are taking them because you need that information to then take the next level course in that subject and advance your knowledge and education, do not drop them.

Many here are focusing on the AP courses, but that was only one scenario that OP posited. She also said that some parents deliberately moved/chose an easier school with less academic demands to allow more time to devote to athletics. I think there are two parallel conversations going on here and many of those debating aren't connecting on the actual topic.

So, yes, you can take a less rigorous academic schedule by not taking AP classes. However, if you are downgrading your child's school for a less challenging academic curriculum, then you are doing your child a disservice. Even in collegiate programs, scholarship athletes are expected to uphold a certain grade point level. If your child is behind academically due to a lesser high school curriculum, (s)he will be struggling more in college to keep up that college GPA to maintain the scholarship and stay in the athletic program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that children will always have an optimistic view of their own talents. It is up to parents to decide how to focus the children on the right path. Parents have an obligation to really stop and consider how much talent their child really has and help guide their child to the right priorities.

Here are some numbers:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athletics
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Recruiting%20Fact%20Sheet%20WEB.pdf

In general, with only a few exceptions, well under 10% of high school athletes will compete at the NCAA level. And of those, only about 1/3 of those will compete at the Div-I, Div-II and Div-III levels. And of those, only about 1-2% will go to compete at the professional level. In soccer, the numbers are about 6% of high school participants will play NCAA and about 1.4% of those will play professional. So that means out of 440K high school soccer players, less than 400 will play professionally.

So, do you want to prioritize the sport or academics? Yes, it is important to have balance, but moving from a higher rated school to a lower rated school just to play athletics to get into a collegiate athletic program is not wise. Instead, why not stay in the higher rated school and play a lower level/tier of athletics. Your child will still get their balance from sport/academics and will have a better foundation for college.

And if you want to know why this is significant, go look at the thread about the shortage of "economically attractive" men. Ex-college sports stars who are making less money because they focused on athletics instead of academics are a dime a dozen and are less attractive for marriage, so if having that job, family and stability is important, then they may want to reassess their priorities.

My nephew did make the one decision that made sense. He was a cross-country runner. He went to a good high school and still competed. He did go to a school on a track scholarship, but he deliberately chose a school with a good engineering program and a lesser NCAA division track team so that he could focus on academics at the collegiate level. He found the pressure to compete less intense so that he could still compete, but the sports program did place an emphasis on maintaining the academics and made allowances for athletes around their academic requirements, which was exactly what he wanted.

This is exactly the opposite of true.

The large majority of CEOs of Fortune 500 companies were college athletes.

College athletes get access to internships that are not available to other students.

NCAA athletes GPAs are higher than the rest of the population.

I think too many are focusing on the cream of the crop. Yes, it does happen that there are many executives and high end earners in many fields who did pursue college athletics. But here are 500 Fortune 500 CEOs. And there are maybe a few thousand athletes who benefited from legacy-type internships, mostly at the more prestigious schools.

In reality, there are 7.3 million high school athletes of which about 500K pursue college athletics and about 8-10K who make it into professional sports. That means in every generation of about 4 years, there are 6.5M high school athletes who will not play college athletics; there are about 7.2M who will not make it into professional sports. If you are one of those who played college level athletics but don't go into professional sports you are one of about 490K in each generation. How many of those do you really think are getting CEO, high level finance, MBA or wall street jobs? Probably less than 10%. There are another 5-10% who end up coaching, training, or otherwise working in their sport, often for very moderate (at most) salaries. Over 80% of those who played college athletics are stuck relying on their academic credentials the same as their peers who concentrated on academics instead of athletics and they are often behind those peers in credentials because the prioritized athletics and athletic accomplishments to academic ones.

You want to hear what happens to the other 80%? They are stuck trying to find their way. Here is one such example and this guy was a top competitor in his sport. He was working for $8 an hour as an intern to get into a sportscaster job which starts at $28K and up. The average sportscaster in the US earns $39K. The ones that make it on national chains including ESPN, SI, etc are the exception, not the rule.
http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/article/15182997/moving-sports-college-athlete-greatest-challenge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard of people doing this. It's also common in gymnastics.

I have never seen it work out well in the few examples I know personally. Invariably the child has had a subpar education and then has ended up either not playing college or playing college but not further.

Ditto. I've watched this for decades. So many "star" high school athletes completely crap out at the college level and never actually play their sport. Several kids I know went to sub par colleges just because they got "signed" to the college team and that means so much to the kids in high school. One coach was red faced and spitting because I said I would not send my child to a smaller/lesser school to play they sport they showed some promise in. They'd go to the best college they'd get in. My kid was recruited by 2 non impressive, not- good reputation colleges and we didn't even call them back. The high schools must get some kind of kick back from getting the kids signed because I have seen so many smart athletes sign at some really bad schools.

Me too. I've personally known of some kids who have gone this route too and it didn't work out to the point that the parents expected. These kids are just one injury away from everything going down the drain. I do know of one where it did work out, as in she became a professional, but it wasn't a high-paying sport and her career was over in her early 30s. She moved into patching together coaching jobs for a paycheck, as well as two knee replacements by the age of 40. One hip replacement at 45.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Homeschooling is not “a much worse HS route”. Plenty of homeschooled kids take a very heavy academic load with rigorous curriculum. There’s a reason homeschoolers have been accepted into and are actively recruited by elite institutions like Harvard, MIT and Stanford. They outperform kids from public school (even when controlling for parents’ education level) plus have additional skills and capabilities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/homeschooling-is-the-new-path-to-harvard-2015-9

I say if it works for the kids and their families and helps them achieve their goals then it sounds like a good idea.

I am willing to bet that the homeschooling of kids who drop out to play DA soccer is generally not on par with HS education. Parents who have been planning out curriculum for many years, sure, maybe some of them are better. Parents with no background who just start in HS so their kid can train five hours a day? Not likely to be good.

Every homeschooler I know do online HS. The curriculum is not created by parents.

I am familiar with the online education process through gymnastics. Except for a few very unusual exceptions (Stanford online, for instance), the education level is definitely weak compared to a good HS. The goal is the float the child along so he or she can focus on sports, not to learn and improve educationally.

I think the sacrifice makes sense for those rare kids who will be able to make a living from sports. For the rest, I honestly haven't seen it work out well. Maybe others have, but I haven't.

This is not the same as not taking APs though. I think not taking APs is irrelevant.

There is a living to be made in gymnastics?

If you are the cream of the crop, then you get to do some of the tours working as an athlete (like the Kellogg's tour, USA gymastics, etc). Most of those are ones who have recognition for Olympics, world or national titles. Outside of that, you are looking at training, coaching, and working at gymastic facilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Met with some DA parents (U17) and several of them noted that they have had to make some "academic sacrifices" for their kids given the elite soccer schedules. "We moved to a different school that was easier" and "we are skipping some AP classes this year" were some comments I heard. I even heard the story of one kid, who is on the national team callup / shortlist has even gone so far as to switch to homeschooling.

Do you think this is common? Are there a lot of DA kids at the tougher academic schools or are there just a few outliers? I've seen DA players get into Harvard / Stanford etc so some are able to balance, but wondering if there are people who have made the choice to dial it back a bit academically so they can purse sporting dreams.

They are getting to these colleges because they are athletes.
Their schedule in college is also modified.
Champion athletes who are in Ivies or any college as a matter of have to train numerous hours a day. Do you actually believe they attend classes and study for exams/do homework just like the rest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Met with some DA parents (U17) and several of them noted that they have had to make some "academic sacrifices" for their kids given the elite soccer schedules. "We moved to a different school that was easier" and "we are skipping some AP classes this year" were some comments I heard. I even heard the story of one kid, who is on the national team callup / shortlist has even gone so far as to switch to homeschooling.

Do you think this is common? Are there a lot of DA kids at the tougher academic schools or are there just a few outliers? I've seen DA players get into Harvard / Stanford etc so some are able to balance, but wondering if there are people who have made the choice to dial it back a bit academically so they can purse sporting dreams.

They are getting to these colleges because they are athletes.
Their schedule in college is also modified.
Champion athletes who are in Ivies or any college as a matter of have to train numerous hours a day. Do you actually believe they attend classes and study for exams/do homework just like the rest?

I really think it depends on the school, the athlete, the coach, and the sport. I competed in D1 athletics. I was all-American in my sport and also Phi Beta Kappa at my college which was/is academically competitive. That said, I really did nothing but train, compete, and study, so had a different college experience than many. But it was absolutely doable. Different sport, different kid, different school then maybe not.

[Anonymous]

If you want to cut back on academics go ahead. No one should be surprised that that idea is unpopular on this board. I think that the demographic that has the resources to be playing high end youth sports is the same demographic that values education for the most part. These folks are trying to get their kids on track for college and grad school and professional careers with solid incomes that would enable some financial security. Pulling backs on academics is not going to sell in this demographic.