Show me the law that says school boards cannot change boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people feel that because they buy a house in one school boundary that they are entitled to that same boundary for eternity? Are they so stupid that they don’t realize that populations and needs shift from time to time?

Take a lesson from the McLean fight re: the 'residential' houses in neighborhoods. It's WHY the shifting of boundaries is occurring. It's one thing to take an overcrowded school and try to solve that problem. It's another thing when your goal is to socioeconomically re-engineer the schools, as the county and board has stated they are doing. That's a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen. They've already uncovered all sorts of violations by Fairfax County/Newport and I would not be surprised if their due diligence helps this boundary fight as well. It's all for the same reasons.

Langley is NOT over-enrolled and one can make a case for shifting some of the students in McLean into Langley to alleviate overcrowding in McLean. Marshall is also under-enrolled so they can absorb new Tysons Corner students, which makes sense because Tysons is very close to Marshall. Pulling Langley students out of Langley (under-enrolled) and moving them to Herndon (over-enrolled) only makes sense if you are trying to re-engineer the student population at Herndon and at Langley to make things less "socioeconomically pure". And in doing so, you know you are destroying property values but don't care because that's the goal to begin with.

Marshall is actually over enrolled. They added a modular this year, despite their renovation, and they are closed to transfers.

The issue at McLean is that there is an island near Timber Lane elementary, that still attends Longfellow and McLean The other half of Timber Lane attends Luther Jackson and Falls Church. Shifting that neighborhood would alleviate some crowding, although I assume they don’t because of demographics.

Timber Lane is closer to Falls Church and Marshall than McLean, but it’s the same story - neither of those schools has extra space to take on another neighborhood (and I think FCPS would want to keep it at McLean, as it accounts for most of the diversity there). Langley is the only school in that part of the county with extra capacity, and there are other areas of McLean and Marshall closer to Langley than Timber Lane, including parts of Tysons that would also add more diversity to Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While looking at elementary schools in Fairfax we heard rumors that the county was thinking of resdistricting that neighborhood to a different high school.

That's when we decided to move to Falls Church City. The schools are as good as the top schools in Fairfax and you have no doubt where your kid will go from Pre-school through grade 12.

Also, if you have something to bitch about, and you know you will in any school district, it's easy to find the people in charge in FCC and get them to listen to you. A school board member probably lives down the street. And if you want you can run yourself.

FCC isn't perfect but there are definitely some significant benefits.

We also looked into FCC but it’s so small. Less choices for students and IB plus MYP. These were reasons we decided to go to Fairfax County. We do not want either of those programs and there are not any other choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be brutal - the School Board is not going to do jack squat about boundaries. If their solution for West Potomac overcrowding was to add a giant addition rather than move students to Mt. Vernon, which has hundreds of empty seats and is projected to continue to have hundreds of empty seats, then they are never going to move students to a poorer high school again. WP and Mt. Vernon are literally right next to each other and the Board refused to make the move. It makes you think that School Board members are making deals with each other so as to not make these changes. They talk a big game, but nothing every happens. The work sessions on boundaries are just more big talk with no action.

Boundary changes have been made in the last few years, but they only moved students to wealthier schools. So this problem of disparity is only getting worse. Way to go Fairfax.

I am not familiar with those schools, so I really cannot speak to it--but, it sounds almost as stupid as expanding Westfield right before they decided that a school should be at @ "2000." It's almost like the people in engineering and construction (or whatever they call it in FCPS) want to justify their jobs by running projects, while the other side is playing with maps.

One thing, though, that really is not being discussed here is the "elephant in the room." Fairfax County has had a huge influx of very poor non-English speaking kids into the schools over the last few years. This was not predicted. And, from what I see, these families settle in communities that are ill-equipped to absorb them. I live in Western Fairfax, and there is a very large pocket in Herndon. I would guess there are also pockets along Rt 1 that affect Mt Vernon/West Potomac. I'm not talking about second generation, I'm talking about very recent.

We should and must educate these children. But, it is not going to be resolved by shifting boundaries.

This.

Whether or not you are pro or anti immigration is not relevant. This is a HUGE problem for the county and school system that we ALL need solve. The biggest way to help this situation is boundary adjustments. A large portion of Great Falls is actually closer to Herndon high school than Langley. That is a fact. So either redraw the Great Falls boundary or open up the Langley boundaries to absorb the large immigrant population in Herndon.

[Anonymous]

Langley and Herndon should split (50/50) the immigrants in Herndon. Would eliminate the FARM disparity between the two schools and would lift all students up.

[Anonymous]

^i agree about the elephant in the room. Our schools are not effectively handling or teaching recent immigrants. They don’t speak English and can’t read or write in Spanish either. It’s completely different than educating the previous low income populations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be brutal - the School Board is not going to do jack squat about boundaries. If their solution for West Potomac overcrowding was to add a giant addition rather than move students to Mt. Vernon, which has hundreds of empty seats and is projected to continue to have hundreds of empty seats, then they are never going to move students to a poorer high school again. WP and Mt. Vernon are literally right next to each other and the Board refused to make the move. It makes you think that School Board members are making deals with each other so as to not make these changes. They talk a big game, but nothing every happens. The work sessions on boundaries are just more big talk with no action.

Boundary changes have been made in the last few years, but they only moved students to wealthier schools. So this problem of disparity is only getting worse. Way to go Fairfax.

I am not familiar with those schools, so I really cannot speak to it--but, it sounds almost as stupid as expanding Westfield right before they decided that a school should be at @ "2000." It's almost like the people in engineering and construction (or whatever they call it in FCPS) want to justify their jobs by running projects, while the other side is playing with maps.

One thing, though, that really is not being discussed here is the "elephant in the room." Fairfax County has had a huge influx of very poor non-English speaking kids into the schools over the last few years. This was not predicted. And, from what I see, these families settle in communities that are ill-equipped to absorb them. I live in Western Fairfax, and there is a very large pocket in Herndon. I would guess there are also pockets along Rt 1 that affect Mt Vernon/West Potomac. I'm not talking about second generation, I'm talking about very recent.

We should and must educate these children. But, it is not going to be resolved by shifting boundaries.

This.

Whether or not you are pro or anti immigration is not relevant. This is a HUGE problem for the county and school system that we ALL need solve. The biggest way to help this situation is boundary adjustments. A large portion of Great Falls is actually closer to Herndon high school than Langley. That is a fact. So either redraw the Great Falls boundary or open up the Langley boundaries to absorb the large immigrant population in Herndon.

Herndon is being expanded to 2500 kids. It should have space for its projected growth. Meanwhile Langley sits on the other side of the county at 400 kids under capacity three miles from McLean, which isn’t getting expanded and is already overcrowded and projected to be 500 kids over capacity in a few years. Why would we not adjust those boundaries first and revisit the Herndon/Langley boundaries only after a new western high school is built?

If you move kids from Herndon to Langley, it leaves empty seats at Herndon when the expansion is completed and necessitates an addition at McLean that isn’t currently planned and which we might not otherwise need to pay for if kids moved to Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Langley and Herndon should split (50/50) the immigrants in Herndon. Would eliminate the FARM disparity between the two schools and would lift all students up.

Again, apart from the fact that the boundaries of those schools border each other, those schools aren’t close to each other. Are you going to redraw the Marshall/Falls Church and Woodson/Annandale boundaries at the same time to address the larger Hispanic enrollments at Falls Church and Annandale? Or is changing the composition of Langley the only real goal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you actually don't know the answer, I don't think you should be calling anyone stupid.

School assignments are closely connected to property values. If you paid a lot for a house in one zone, of course you would object to being rezoned in a way that devalues your house, which is likely your largest asset. It has nothing to do with what people would agree is best in the abstract, or with what is legally allowed. But you knew that.

Let’s say your house value declines because the housing market tanks. Are you entitled to sell your house at a greater price than you bought it for? Are you going to yell and stomp your foot at the unfortunate luck?

That’s what a boundary change is. The luck of the draw. You need to accept that.

First, I'm entitled to stomp my foot at anything. Doing so doesn't hurt anybody. Your main complaint in this thread is about "throwing a fit" or otherwise protesting boundary changes, which people have a right to do. It is okay to advocate for what you want. You may lose, and yes you have to accept that once it actually happens.

Second, it's not luck of the draw. It's policy choices made by elected officials. To the extent policy choices seem poised to cause the housing market to tank, I am absolutely entitled to be upset, and to fight for change before that happens.

Your property value should not be part of the school board decision making process.

DP Maybe but perhaps if given the choice and knowledge than the people could save money and either buy in the lower valued school district since they are going to end up there anyway OR pass on the area altogether. btw, I believe if you buy in an area that changes early enough than you are grandfathered in and can attend the school that you were previously zoned for. My cousin is doing this and they live in North Potomac where their school could change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Langley and Herndon should split (50/50) the immigrants in Herndon. Would eliminate the FARM disparity between the two schools and would lift all students up.

How do you think this would help the kids?

Obviously, you have never driven that direction in rush hour traffic. Just what we need---school buses going from the DTR to 495 at rush hour! Two hours on a bus per day will do wonders for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^i agree about the elephant in the room. Our schools are not effectively handling or teaching recent immigrants. They don’t speak English and can’t read or write in Spanish either. It’s completely different than educating the previous low income populations.

Our neighborhood school has had a huge influx of recent immigrants. The vast majority are very sweet kids who try their best, as do their parents. The teachers and school staff work incredibly hard to make sure the kids' needs are met and the families feel welcome. I have no doubt most of the kids will catch up in due time. However, FCPS definitely saw this coming and IMO did not prepare well. Our elected officials were hesitant to lobby the federal government for more help and have done nothing to change the LCI to keep more of our money in the area. Paying for the extra resources needed has fallen on the local taxpayers, which is hugely unfair given the amount we send downstate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be brutal - the School Board is not going to do jack squat about boundaries. If their solution for West Potomac overcrowding was to add a giant addition rather than move students to Mt. Vernon, which has hundreds of empty seats and is projected to continue to have hundreds of empty seats, then they are never going to move students to a poorer high school again. WP and Mt. Vernon are literally right next to each other and the Board refused to make the move. It makes you think that School Board members are making deals with each other so as to not make these changes. They talk a big game, but nothing every happens. The work sessions on boundaries are just more big talk with no action.

Boundary changes have been made in the last few years, but they only moved students to wealthier schools. So this problem of disparity is only getting worse. Way to go Fairfax.

I am not familiar with those schools, so I really cannot speak to it--but, it sounds almost as stupid as expanding Westfield right before they decided that a school should be at @ "2000." It's almost like the people in engineering and construction (or whatever they call it in FCPS) want to justify their jobs by running projects, while the other side is playing with maps.

One thing, though, that really is not being discussed here is the "elephant in the room." Fairfax County has had a huge influx of very poor non-English speaking kids into the schools over the last few years. This was not predicted. And, from what I see, these families settle in communities that are ill-equipped to absorb them. I live in Western Fairfax, and there is a very large pocket in Herndon. I would guess there are also pockets along Rt 1 that affect Mt Vernon/West Potomac. I'm not talking about second generation, I'm talking about very recent.

We should and must educate these children. But, it is not going to be resolved by shifting boundaries.

This.

Whether or not you are pro or anti immigration is not relevant. This is a HUGE problem for the county and school system that we ALL need solve. The biggest way to help this situation is boundary adjustments. A large portion of Great Falls is actually closer to Herndon high school than Langley. That is a fact. So either redraw the Great Falls boundary or open up the Langley boundaries to absorb the large immigrant population in Herndon.

Everyone needs to read the CIP, VDOE historical enrollment data including demographics, and program/design capacity of facilities. The fact is p 52 of the CIP includes Herndon HS SY23-24 at 2500 program capacity and projected membership =2552 resulting in 102% capacity.


Herndon HS most likley has adjusted ratios [lower class sizes] than Langley. Schools can have the exact floor plan and design specs yet have lower capacity based on demographics. So what are persons proposing? Bus base elemenary school Hutchison to Langley ? A swap of Hutchison and Forestville? Install a new voluntary program at the Langley site ?

[Anonymous]

Herndon HS most likley has adjusted ratios [lower class sizes] than Langley. Schools can have the exact floor plan and design specs yet have lower capacity based on demographics. So what are persons proposing? Bus base elemenary school Hutchison to Langley ? A swap of Hutchison and Forestville? Install a new voluntary program at the Langley site ?

LOl! I think there is at least one poster on here who thinks that would be a great idea! I'm still stunned that she thinks sending Hutchison kids to Langley would be a good idea. All the commuters will just love it! And, if parent involvement is needed--well, good luck with that. What kind of public transportation goes from Herndon to Langley? Take the bus to the Metro to Tysons and then take buses to Langley? Don't know how many buses it would take to get from Tyson's to Langley--but, I'm thinking it would require at least one transfer, and may not even be possible. Is there a public bus that stops near Langley?
And, since a PP has discussed how many extracurriculars are available at Langley--how is that going to work for those kids? And, FWIW, I suspect that Herndon has plenty of extracurriculars.

[Anonymous]

The issue for the Langley people is it seems like they’re getting it from both sides. On the one hand, the left-wing types are committed to a vision of “equity” that translates into redistricting to achieve similar demographic balance at every high school. On the other hand, there are some angry conservatives who don’t like the influx of lower-income immigrants (mostly Hispanic) into their communities and are convinced that county politicians won’t ever tackle the related society issues unless wealthy people zoned to Langley are also affected. When you put both sides together, you end up with a lot of noise to change Langley’s boundaries, to the point where it drowns out those who are just asking FCPS to manage its facilities efficiently.

[Anonymous]

There are houses that are zoned for Langley and are 16 miles from Langley high school. Those same houses are 6 miles from Herndon high school.

For those concerned with distance and traffic, please explain why the current boundaries make sense?

[Anonymous]

^^^AND if a 16 mile commute is ok, then we can certainly send Herndon's FARM kids to Langley.