will not taking calculus hinder a kid's chance at getting into a top college?

[Anonymous]

The schools don't offer higher math than Calc, besides the magnets and probably TJ, so there is no reason to take Calc before 12th unless student wants AB in 11th and BC in 12th. The more mature the student, the better math will go, so no need to push for earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not having any Calculus is a big no no in almost all top schools, unless you are full pay.

Just too many kids will have had it. She will be below them.

+1

OP asked about top colleges. There are just way too many kids who will finish BC in junior year. They all apply to top colleges. Our local public HS, not TJ, offers two classes for Calculus BC. So that's 50+ kids right there. Almost all of them will get into UVA. That doesn't leave too many slots left for the non-calculus kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having any Calculus is a big no no in almost all top schools, unless you are full pay.

Just too many kids will have had it. She will be below them.

If you are full-pay, and affluent, you are definitely expected to have calculus by the time you graduate. Perhaps donors are in a different category.

DC was asked about math progression in interviews at Wake Forest, which is test-optional, and W&L. I think that math level is probably the easiest method for these school to measure course rigor.

Because if you are full pay you can just skip all of high school right??? Do you understand how stupid you sound??? Full pay which is most of the class in any college does not = large donor. Full pay often means upper middle class savers or top 5% families. Why do people act like full pay is a rare occurrence???

Seriously. All of the top schools could fill their classes multiple times over with full pay students. The idea that it confers any sort of advantage makes it clear that you have no idea re: college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:irregardless

Honestly I love it when I hear this. I hope its use makes a big comeback.

I could care less.

[Anonymous]

My parents held me out of the calculus track in 8th grade and I only got as far as pre-calc. It was by far the best thing for me. I was a decent math student but great in arts and humanities. It reduced my stress levels and allowed me to focus on my strengths. I went to Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

I can only speak to GMU, but no, it is not critical for admission. IIRC about 20% of the class of 2022 was eligible for credit in MATH 113/114/123 thru AP or dual-enrollment, so clearly there are tons of students who did not take calculus in HS (or did not pass the AP exam).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

I can only speak to GMU, but no, it is not critical for admission. IIRC about 20% of the class of 2022 was eligible for credit in MATH 113/114/123 thru AP or dual-enrollment, so clearly there are tons of students who did not take calculus in HS (or did not pass the AP exam).

Thank you. GMU is his first choice, by far, so this is helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The schools don't offer higher math than Calc, besides the magnets and probably TJ, so there is no reason to take Calc before 12th unless student wants AB in 11th and BC in 12th. The more mature the student, the better math will go, so no need to push for earlier.

That’s not true in MCPS. Many students take calculus junior year, and MD requires four years of math in high school. So most schools will offer multi variable calculus or some other advanced math class in addition to AP statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

I can only speak to GMU, but no, it is not critical for admission. IIRC about 20% of the class of 2022 was eligible for credit in MATH 113/114/123 thru AP or dual-enrollment, so clearly there are tons of students who did not take calculus in HS (or did not pass the AP exam).

Thank you. GMU is his first choice, by far, so this is helpful.

But if your DD or DS plans to go into computer science, econ., math, engineering or game design, etc., don't listen to the "professor" above. Talk to the head of the department. GMU is too large for one "professor", adjunct, non-tenured or even tenured to know what the other departments seek. It was Dr. Scott Martin, chair of the GMU Game Design Department, who asked my junior if they had finished calculus. https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/. Put it another way - we all know that college admissions directors say they are looking at the depth and rigor of an applicant's courses of study. They want to see if the student has exhausted all the courses that the high school had to over. Hence you have kids taking 15 AP courses. Our well-known public high school offers the following courses AFTER Calculus BC. The universities know this. So if you are seeking admittance to a "top college", especially in a math-related field,, the college will want to know you've exhausted what was offered: After Calculus BC: Prob & Statistics, AP Statistics, Computer Science AP, Adv Computer Science; Multivar Calculus, Matrix Algebra, etc. etc. The students who take those courses are the ones headed for Ivies or "top college" as OP asked.

Also, the admission director at Virginia Tech also said they wanted to see Calculus BC finished with an A before DC applied so they advised against (then) applying ED because they wanted to see that grade first. If DC hadn't finished BC by the end of junior year or during the summer, they suggested he wait because most likely he would be deferred until that grade came in. At that time Virginia Tech was taking only 5% engineering students from in-state by ED. That's changed but the competition has only gotten stiffer for slots in the much sought-after in-state publics.

And for those who say their child will never use calculus so why take it, you actually don't know what grad school your child may head for. One of ours is doing either an MBA or MPP and for both has to go to "math camp" for two weeks during the summer before starting grad school to make sure DC is up-to-speed on calculus and statistics. Fortunately, he took calculus in high school and also another course in it in college so is prepared. Four years ago I would not have known that he was going to head for a Master's Degree at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:irregardless

Honestly I love it when I hear this. I hope its use makes a big comeback.

I could care less.

I see what you did there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

Go on Open House visiting days for the specific departments. https://www2.gmu.edu/admissions-aid/engineering-visit-days. Also just ask at the admissions office. Our DS was interested in Japanese. When we toured Gettysburg College we asked Admissions who was available to talk to us about the Japanese program and were straight away sent to spend a delightful hour with the head of the Japanese Department (who happened to be Chinese, but spoke fluent Japanese, and gave us a full hour of his time). And if you are heading out for a tour, just pick up the phone and call the department head and ask who is available to talk to. My alma mater's head of the Japanese department also spent two hours with DC talking about the college and the program. You will be surprised how much these professors want to share their insight with you and your child. And if they don't, then that's not the school where you want to drop $75K a year. The TAs are also available to discuss programs, but you have to reach out and ask who might be available, Admissions won't know what your child is interested in unless you reach out and ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

I can only speak to GMU, but no, it is not critical for admission. IIRC about 20% of the class of 2022 was eligible for credit in MATH 113/114/123 thru AP or dual-enrollment, so clearly there are tons of students who did not take calculus in HS (or did not pass the AP exam).

Thank you. GMU is his first choice, by far, so this is helpful.

But if your DD or DS plans to go into computer science, econ., math, engineering or game design, etc., don't listen to the "professor" above. Talk to the head of the department. GMU is too large for one "professor", adjunct, non-tenured or even tenured to know what the other departments seek. It was Dr. Scott Martin, chair of the GMU Game Design Department, who asked my junior if they had finished calculus. https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/. Put it another way - we all know that college admissions directors say they are looking at the depth and rigor of an applicant's courses of study. They want to see if the student has exhausted all the courses that the high school had to over. Hence you have kids taking 15 AP courses. Our well-known public high school offers the following courses AFTER Calculus BC. The universities know this. So if you are seeking admittance to a "top college", especially in a math-related field,, the college will want to know you've exhausted what was offered: After Calculus BC: Prob & Statistics, AP Statistics, Computer Science AP, Adv Computer Science; Multivar Calculus, Matrix Algebra, etc. etc. The students who take those courses are the ones headed for Ivies or "top college" as OP asked.

Also, the admission director at Virginia Tech also said they wanted to see Calculus BC finished with an A before DC applied so they advised against (then) applying ED because they wanted to see that grade first. If DC hadn't finished BC by the end of junior year or during the summer, they suggested he wait because most likely he would be deferred until that grade came in. At that time Virginia Tech was taking only 5% engineering students from in-state by ED. That's changed but the competition has only gotten stiffer for slots in the much sought-after in-state publics.

And for those who say their child will never use calculus so why take it, you actually don't know what grad school your child may head for. One of ours is doing either an MBA or MPP and for both has to go to "math camp" for two weeks during the summer before starting grad school to make sure DC is up-to-speed on calculus and statistics. Fortunately, he took calculus in high school and also another course in it in college so is prepared. Four years ago I would not have known that he was going to head for a Master's Degree at all.

Hi, GMU mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools don't offer higher math than Calc, besides the magnets and probably TJ, so there is no reason to take Calc before 12th unless student wants AB in 11th and BC in 12th. The more mature the student, the better math will go, so no need to push for earlier.

That’s not true in MCPS. Many students take calculus junior year, and MD requires four years of math in high school. So most schools will offer multi variable calculus or some other advanced math class in addition to AP statistics.

I didn't know this. Good to know. AP Stats is not higher math.