will not taking calculus hinder a kid's chance at getting into a top college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

I can only speak to GMU, but no, it is not critical for admission. IIRC about 20% of the class of 2022 was eligible for credit in MATH 113/114/123 thru AP or dual-enrollment, so clearly there are tons of students who did not take calculus in HS (or did not pass the AP exam).

Thank you. GMU is his first choice, by far, so this is helpful.

But if your DD or DS plans to go into computer science, econ., math, engineering or game design, etc., don't listen to the "professor" above. Talk to the head of the department. GMU is too large for one "professor", adjunct, non-tenured or even tenured to know what the other departments seek. It was Dr. Scott Martin, chair of the GMU Game Design Department, who asked my junior if they had finished calculus. https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/. Put it another way - we all know that college admissions directors say they are looking at the depth and rigor of an applicant's courses of study. They want to see if the student has exhausted all the courses that the high school had to over. Hence you have kids taking 15 AP courses. Our well-known public high school offers the following courses AFTER Calculus BC. The universities know this. So if you are seeking admittance to a "top college", especially in a math-related field,, the college will want to know you've exhausted what was offered: After Calculus BC: Prob & Statistics, AP Statistics, Computer Science AP, Adv Computer Science; Multivar Calculus, Matrix Algebra, etc. etc. The students who take those courses are the ones headed for Ivies or "top college" as OP asked.

Also, the admission director at Virginia Tech also said they wanted to see Calculus BC finished with an A before DC applied so they advised against (then) applying ED because they wanted to see that grade first. If DC hadn't finished BC by the end of junior year or during the summer, they suggested he wait because most likely he would be deferred until that grade came in. At that time Virginia Tech was taking only 5% engineering students from in-state by ED. That's changed but the competition has only gotten stiffer for slots in the much sought-after in-state publics.

And for those who say their child will never use calculus so why take it, you actually don't know what grad school your child may head for. One of ours is doing either an MBA or MPP and for both has to go to "math camp" for two weeks during the summer before starting grad school to make sure DC is up-to-speed on calculus and statistics. Fortunately, he took calculus in high school and also another course in it in college so is prepared. Four years ago I would not have known that he was going to head for a Master's Degree at all.

This is helpful information as well. Although I saw no need for the rudeness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

I can only speak to GMU, but no, it is not critical for admission. IIRC about 20% of the class of 2022 was eligible for credit in MATH 113/114/123 thru AP or dual-enrollment, so clearly there are tons of students who did not take calculus in HS (or did not pass the AP exam).

Thank you. GMU is his first choice, by far, so this is helpful.

But if your DD or DS plans to go into computer science, econ., math, engineering or game design, etc., don't listen to the "professor" above. Talk to the head of the department. GMU is too large for one "professor", adjunct, non-tenured or even tenured to know what the other departments seek. It was Dr. Scott Martin, chair of the GMU Game Design Department, who asked my junior if they had finished calculus. https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/. Put it another way - we all know that college admissions directors say they are looking at the depth and rigor of an applicant's courses of study. They want to see if the student has exhausted all the courses that the high school had to over. Hence you have kids taking 15 AP courses. Our well-known public high school offers the following courses AFTER Calculus BC. The universities know this. So if you are seeking admittance to a "top college", especially in a math-related field,, the college will want to know you've exhausted what was offered: After Calculus BC: Prob & Statistics, AP Statistics, Computer Science AP, Adv Computer Science; Multivar Calculus, Matrix Algebra, etc. etc. The students who take those courses are the ones headed for Ivies or "top college" as OP asked.

Also, the admission director at Virginia Tech also said they wanted to see Calculus BC finished with an A before DC applied so they advised against (then) applying ED because they wanted to see that grade first. If DC hadn't finished BC by the end of junior year or during the summer, they suggested he wait because most likely he would be deferred until that grade came in. At that time Virginia Tech was taking only 5% engineering students from in-state by ED. That's changed but the competition has only gotten stiffer for slots in the much sought-after in-state publics.

And for those who say their child will never use calculus so why take it, you actually don't know what grad school your child may head for. One of ours is doing either an MBA or MPP and for both has to go to "math camp" for two weeks during the summer before starting grad school to make sure DC is up-to-speed on calculus and statistics. Fortunately, he took calculus in high school and also another course in it in college so is prepared. Four years ago I would not have known that he was going to head for a Master's Degree at all.

So the professor who said AP Calc is important is correct but the one who said it's not critical in admissions is automatically incorrect? He/she is just a "professor"? Why do you take one's word but not the other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While on tour as a JUNIOR, DD was asked by several heads of departments if she had finished Calculus BC. And these were not top colleges. It is important.

I simply don't believe this.

Why would I lie about something so absurd? It happened - at GMU, UVA and VT. We learned a lesson. Child no 2 had calculus BC done by end of junior year and got into UVA.

At what point on a tour did you meet with department heads? We've been on a few tours and never encountered a professor.

I am a professor at GMU and the idea that several department heads here would question a potential student about their math sequence is hilarious. To quote the young people, "I can't even."

Thank you. So do you have thoughts on whether calculus is critical for admission? This thread has been illuminating for me as my DS just picked classes for his senior year and he was going to take IB CompSci and Probability/Stats. Having him rethink the prob/stats class.

I can only speak to GMU, but no, it is not critical for admission. IIRC about 20% of the class of 2022 was eligible for credit in MATH 113/114/123 thru AP or dual-enrollment, so clearly there are tons of students who did not take calculus in HS (or did not pass the AP exam).

Thank you. GMU is his first choice, by far, so this is helpful.

But if your DD or DS plans to go into computer science, econ., math, engineering or game design, etc., don't listen to the "professor" above. Talk to the head of the department. GMU is too large for one "professor", adjunct, non-tenured or even tenured to know what the other departments seek. It was Dr. Scott Martin, chair of the GMU Game Design Department, who asked my junior if they had finished calculus. https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/https://game.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/. Put it another way - we all know that college admissions directors say they are looking at the depth and rigor of an applicant's courses of study. They want to see if the student has exhausted all the courses that the high school had to over. Hence you have kids taking 15 AP courses. Our well-known public high school offers the following courses AFTER Calculus BC. The universities know this. So if you are seeking admittance to a "top college", especially in a math-related field,, the college will want to know you've exhausted what was offered: After Calculus BC: Prob & Statistics, AP Statistics, Computer Science AP, Adv Computer Science; Multivar Calculus, Matrix Algebra, etc. etc. The students who take those courses are the ones headed for Ivies or "top college" as OP asked.

Also, the admission director at Virginia Tech also said they wanted to see Calculus BC finished with an A before DC applied so they advised against (then) applying ED because they wanted to see that grade first. If DC hadn't finished BC by the end of junior year or during the summer, they suggested he wait because most likely he would be deferred until that grade came in. At that time Virginia Tech was taking only 5% engineering students from in-state by ED. That's changed but the competition has only gotten stiffer for slots in the much sought-after in-state publics.

And for those who say their child will never use calculus so why take it, you actually don't know what grad school your child may head for. One of ours is doing either an MBA or MPP and for both has to go to "math camp" for two weeks during the summer before starting grad school to make sure DC is up-to-speed on calculus and statistics. Fortunately, he took calculus in high school and also another course in it in college so is prepared. Four years ago I would not have known that he was going to head for a Master's Degree at all.

Calling me a liar? Nice. Obviously, if your child is entering a math-heavy field, calculus is going to be important. Of course. But for GMU in general, your kid is not automatically going to be ruled out because she/she did not take calculus. Not at all.

I just know and am relaying the facts - that the majority of GMU students do NOT come in having taken AP Calculus or a college-level calc course.

[Anonymous]

The discussion about GMU is not relevant to OP's question as GMU is not a top college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The discussion about GMU is not relevant to OP's question as GMU is not a top college.

+1. It's about the necessity of Calculus to "get into a top college" as OP asked. IMHE if trying for Ivies or top SLACS or state flagships the answer is yes. YRMV

[Anonymous]

I don't know if Vassar meets OP's definition of a top college, but I'd guess their admission standards are at least in line with top schools, and HS calc came up at the info session there. They have a quantitative reasoning component to their distribution requirements and the admissions officer said a strong HS schedule should include calc. One parent pushed back re her DC's difficulty with math, and was told there are exceptions, but these issues should be noted in the extenuating circumstances section of the application (and basically let's talk later). So no calc is a deficiency. Better to just hit the mark if possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if Vassar meets OP's definition of a top college, but I'd guess their admission standards are at least in line with top schools, and HS calc came up at the info session there. They have a quantitative reasoning component to their distribution requirements and the admissions officer said a strong HS schedule should include calc. One parent pushed back re her DC's difficulty with math, and was told there are exceptions, but these issues should be noted in the extenuating circumstances section of the application (and basically let's talk later). So no calc is a deficiency. Better to just hit the mark if possible.

Vassar is in the category of "Most selective" colleges. I think it is a top college for this discussion.

[Anonymous]

+1