CES Decision Letters

[Anonymous]

Good luck, everyone! I know it’s hard to wait!

- mom of 4th grader in CES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This play by play is pretty funny. Thanks for the update.

Happy to entertain! I figure it's better to know first thing in the day whether the news is coming so I can try to not think about it again until tomorrow. Waiting is not one of my strong points.

[Anonymous]

Last year, we got it on Saturday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year, we got it on Saturday.

I am certainly hoping that will happen!

[Anonymous]

If letters go out today, then people would theoretically begin posting acceptance, waitlists or rejections tomorrow. Sunday and beginning next week. I guess it really depends on how close you live to Rockville and the timeliness of USPS.

[Anonymous]

The website now says "**Decisions for Centers for Enriched Studies programs will be mailed on or about April 1, 2019"

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/admissions/applications.aspx

[Anonymous]

And there's a new FAQ: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/CES%20Selection%20Process%20FAQ%203.29(1).pdf


If the link doesn't work, you can find it here: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/admissions/applications.aspx

[Anonymous]

Well, this is quite interesting from their FAQ, which was just updated today.

What do the MCPS percentiles mean? How are MCPS percentiles determined?
The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on
the CogAT® (MCPS Percentiles). In establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with
minimal poverty were compared to one another, students in schools with moderate poverty were
compared to each other, and students from schools highly impacted by poverty were compared to
each other.

Why did MCPS use local norms? How were local norms created?
Based on guidance from the National Association for Gifted Children, the use of local norms was
undertaken to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, this is quite interesting from their FAQ, which was just updated today.

What do the MCPS percentiles mean? How are MCPS percentiles determined?
The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on
the CogAT® (MCPS Percentiles). In establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with
minimal poverty were compared to one another, students in schools with moderate poverty were
compared to each other, and students from schools highly impacted by poverty were compared to
each other.

Why did MCPS use local norms? How were local norms created?
Based on guidance from the National Association for Gifted Children, the use of local norms was
undertaken to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access.

Well, this raises more questions than it answers...
Does this mean that a student in a school highly impacted by poverty is scored more indulgently than a student at a low-poverty school? And for CES centers that draw from both high-poverty and low-poverty schools, the students are compared according to these" doctored "scores?

If that's not rank discrimination, I don't know what is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this is quite interesting from their FAQ, which was just updated today.

What do the MCPS percentiles mean? How are MCPS percentiles determined?
The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on
the CogAT® (MCPS Percentiles). In establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with
minimal poverty were compared to one another, students in schools with moderate poverty were
compared to each other, and students from schools highly impacted by poverty were compared to
each other.

Why did MCPS use local norms? How were local norms created?
Based on guidance from the National Association for Gifted Children, the use of local norms was
undertaken to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access.

Well, this raises more questions than it answers...
Does this mean that a student in a school highly impacted by poverty is scored more indulgently than a student at a low-poverty school? And for CES centers that draw from both high-poverty and low-poverty schools, the students are compared according to these" doctored "scores?

If that's not rank discrimination, I don't know what is.

Nah. It's about percentiles., not "doctored scores." A student scored higher than X% of students in one of the three groups.

[Anonymous]

So looks like MCPS used the following selection criteria:
- MAP-R and MAP-M PERCENTIlLE scores. I guess they don't care if you are 2-grade levels up at 99% or at grade level 99%, as long as you are at some percentile they deem reasonable, although we don't know what that should be. I am also sure it is center dependent, with Cold Spring traditionally being the hardest to get in.
- Peer Cohort: If you have 20 people who are similar to your profile at your ES, you have a cohort and likely won't get selected. Although what range of scores on what tests constitute a cohort?? If this is 80%-98%, this is quite a wide range and MCPS can manipulate the numbers as they please to fit whatever it is that they want.
- Your MCPS Cogat Composite Percentile, that was put through some socioeconomic formula. So I guess two kids could score the exact same score and their MCPS Percentile would be different if the socio-economic status of their school is different. Some might say within the same cluster the schools might not be that much different in terms of socioeconomic status but I don't necessarily think that is the case. Would they consider Seven Locks, Bells Mill and Potomac ES one notch "richer" than Dufief, for example, for the Cold Spring Cluster, therefore the MCPS percentile is formulaically altered consequently?
- Report Card Grades
- Non-Score Student Essay: It says non-scored as they don't "grade" it but the content is used in consideration for the selection process.

How much do each of this weigh in the selection process? Without something concrete, it seems quite subjective and can be easily tinkered with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, this is quite interesting from their FAQ, which was just updated today.

What do the MCPS percentiles mean? How are MCPS percentiles determined?
The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on
the CogAT® (MCPS Percentiles). In establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with
minimal poverty were compared to one another, students in schools with moderate poverty were
compared to each other, and students from schools highly impacted by poverty were compared to
each other.

Why did MCPS use local norms? How were local norms created?
Based on guidance from the National Association for Gifted Children, the use of local norms was
undertaken to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access.

They did the same thing for magnet middle schools this year. The local scores are probably made by comparing within three tiers: 1) Title 1 schools; 2) Focus schools; and 3) other schools.

Also, the FAQ defines a peer cohort as 20 kids of similar profile/ability, which seems like a big number for most elementary schools. They used 20 as the definition of a peer group for middle schools, and I thought it was 5 for elementary schools last year. I wonder if that's a typo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this is quite interesting from their FAQ, which was just updated today.

What do the MCPS percentiles mean? How are MCPS percentiles determined?
The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on
the CogAT® (MCPS Percentiles). In establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with
minimal poverty were compared to one another, students in schools with moderate poverty were
compared to each other, and students from schools highly impacted by poverty were compared to
each other.

Why did MCPS use local norms? How were local norms created?
Based on guidance from the National Association for Gifted Children, the use of local norms was
undertaken to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access.

Well, this raises more questions than it answers...
Does this mean that a student in a school highly impacted by poverty is scored more indulgently than a student at a low-poverty school? And for CES centers that draw from both high-poverty and low-poverty schools, the students are compared according to these" doctored "scores?

If that's not rank discrimination, I don't know what is.

Then move to a poor neighborhood with a bad school. Geesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this is quite interesting from their FAQ, which was just updated today.

What do the MCPS percentiles mean? How are MCPS percentiles determined?
The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on
the CogAT® (MCPS Percentiles). In establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with
minimal poverty were compared to one another, students in schools with moderate poverty were
compared to each other, and students from schools highly impacted by poverty were compared to
each other.

Why did MCPS use local norms? How were local norms created?
Based on guidance from the National Association for Gifted Children, the use of local norms was
undertaken to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access.

Well, this raises more questions than it answers...
Does this mean that a student in a school highly impacted by poverty is scored more indulgently than a student at a low-poverty school? And for CES centers that draw from both high-poverty and low-poverty schools, the students are compared according to these" doctored "scores?

If that's not rank discrimination, I don't know what is.

Then move to a poor neighborhood with a bad school. Geesh.

I know how many times have I read here: "if you valued your child's education you'd move to a W-feeder..."

Seems like the county is beginning to recognize how the SES standing of a school impacts its scores.

Can't wait for sites like GS to do the same!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this is quite interesting from their FAQ, which was just updated today.

What do the MCPS percentiles mean? How are MCPS percentiles determined?
The socioeconomic status of elementary schools was used to determine the locally normed score on
the CogAT® (MCPS Percentiles). In establishing MCPS Percentiles, students in schools with
minimal poverty were compared to one another, students in schools with moderate poverty were
compared to each other, and students from schools highly impacted by poverty were compared to
each other.

Why did MCPS use local norms? How were local norms created?
Based on guidance from the National Association for Gifted Children, the use of local norms was
undertaken to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access.

Well, this raises more questions than it answers...
Does this mean that a student in a school highly impacted by poverty is scored more indulgently than a student at a low-poverty school? And for CES centers that draw from both high-poverty and low-poverty schools, the students are compared according to these" doctored "scores?

If that's not rank discrimination, I don't know what is.

Then move to a poor neighborhood with a bad school. Geesh.

Seems like it penalizes lower SES kids at wealthy schools. You get a boost from FARMS, but if you stretch to live in a better school zone and aren't FARMS, no benefit