CES Decision Letters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't apply (anymore.) There is universal screening. The first stage involves them recommending your child to take a test. If your child received a "gifted" designation in 2nd they will be recommended to take the test. You can opt out of taking the test or you can opt in if your child wasn't recommended.

From that pool of kids MCPS invites some kids for the program and puts others in a wait pool. There are stats somewhere with the number considered, invited, in the wait pool and not invited. Something like 6000-7000 "considered"/tested out of 11,000-12,000 total 3rd graders. Don't remember how many invited.

So we'd already know if they'd taken the test?

Yes. All current third graders were screened and parents received letters about whether they would be tested (with the chance to opt in or opt out). Testing happened at local schools in February.

Oh it’s current 3rd not 2nd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't apply (anymore.) There is universal screening. The first stage involves them recommending your child to take a test. If your child received a "gifted" designation in 2nd they will be recommended to take the test. You can opt out of taking the test or you can opt in if your child wasn't recommended.

From that pool of kids MCPS invites some kids for the program and puts others in a wait pool. There are stats somewhere with the number considered, invited, in the wait pool and not invited. Something like 6000-7000 "considered"/tested out of 11,000-12,000 total 3rd graders. Don't remember how many invited.

So we'd already know if they'd taken the test?

Yes. All current third graders were screened and parents received letters about whether they would be tested (with the chance to opt in or opt out). Testing happened at local schools in February.

Oh it’s current 3rd not 2nd?

Yes. All current second graders took a test in December and will receive results of whether they are labeled "gifted" in Juhe, but this is entirely separate from the CES admission being discussed here. And the second grade "gifted" designation doesn't really affect anything in third grade.

[Anonymous]

Yes and no.
The 2nd grade gifted designation or results on the Inview test help determine whether your child will be recommended for the CES test.

The CES test which is done in February in 3rd is part of the selection criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes and no.
The 2nd grade gifted designation or results on the Inview test help determine whether your child will be recommended for the CES test.

The CES test which is done in February in 3rd is part of the selection criteria.

NP - to clarify PP's statement, the result of the CES test in Feb of 3rd grade weighs the MOST in the selection process.
After that, it's grades, MAPs and Inview.

Please note that there is a non-individual criteria: if your child scores in a similar range to her classmates at her school, and another child in another school scores the same but has no similarly-scoring classmates, MCPS will favor that last candidate because they consider that if a child has a peer cohort in their home school, their needs are already being served in some way. This is valid for all magnets, but is more visible at the middle and high school level.

[Anonymous]

Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

Because I know

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

Because I know

What about a child who has 99% map but didn't do too well in the CES test? Does he/she have a good chance of getting into a local center?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

Because I know

What about a child who has 99% map but didn't do too well in the CES test? Does he/she have a good chance of getting into a local center?

When we went through, our child at 99% two grade levels up and scored a 97% on the test was wait-listed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

Because I know

What about a child who has 99% map but didn't do too well in the CES test? Does he/she have a good chance of getting into a local center?

When we went through, our child at 99% two grade levels up and scored a 97% on the test was wait-listed.

In general, the CES test score reflects natural aptitude whereas a higher map indicates outside enrichment. That's why the former carries more weight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP - to clarify PP's statement, the result of the CES test in Feb of 3rd grade weighs the MOST in the selection process.
After that, it's grades, MAPs and Inview.

Please note that there is a non-individual criteria: if your child scores in a similar range to her classmates at her school, and another child in another school scores the same but has no similarly-scoring classmates, MCPS will favor that last candidate because they consider that if a child has a peer cohort in their home school, their needs are already being served in some way. This is valid for all magnets, but is more visible at the middle and high school level.

How has "motivation", which has been pointed out as one of the factors, been evaluated in the condition of "without teacher's input"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP - to clarify PP's statement, the result of the CES test in Feb of 3rd grade weighs the MOST in the selection process.
After that, it's grades, MAPs and Inview.

Please note that there is a non-individual criteria: if your child scores in a similar range to her classmates at her school, and another child in another school scores the same but has no similarly-scoring classmates, MCPS will favor that last candidate because they consider that if a child has a peer cohort in their home school, their needs are already being served in some way. This is valid for all magnets, but is more visible at the middle and high school level.

How has "motivation", which has been pointed out as one of the factors, been evaluated in the condition of "without teacher's input"?

Sorry, I have no inside info on that. I would *hope* that it's the least important criteria, given how the questions were worded this year. Some children did not know how to respond politely (one asked if school was boring).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

Because I know

What about a child who has 99% map but didn't do too well in the CES test? Does he/she have a good chance of getting into a local center?

When we went through, our child at 99% two grade levels up and scored a 97% on the test was wait-listed.

In general, the CES test score reflects natural aptitude whereas a higher map indicates outside enrichment. That's why the former carries more weight.

Correct. As you know, IQ tests and their ilk are deemed aptitude tests which measure innate ability to problem-solve, whereas PARCC, MAPs and school quizzes are achievement tests which measure how much knowledge has been learned. The Cogat test, which is condensed from its original form and used as CES testing material, is supposed to be similar to an IQ test. It has verbal, number and figural categories and supposedly you cannot prepare for it. In reality, you can always familiarize yourself with aptitude testing material and gain a few points, which is why a tiny minority of parents "prep". However once the child reaches their ceiling, prepping more won't magically generate a higher score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

Because I know

What about a child who has 99% map but didn't do too well in the CES test? Does he/she have a good chance of getting into a local center?

Not a good chance, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

Because I know

What about a child who has 99% map but didn't do too well in the CES test? Does he/she have a good chance of getting into a local center?

When we went through, our child at 99% two grade levels up and scored a 97% on the test was wait-listed.

In general, the CES test score reflects natural aptitude whereas a higher map indicates outside enrichment. That's why the former carries more weight.

Correct. As you know, IQ tests and their ilk are deemed aptitude tests which measure innate ability to problem-solve, whereas PARCC, MAPs and school quizzes are achievement tests which measure how much knowledge has been learned. The Cogat test, which is condensed from its original form and used as CES testing material, is supposed to be similar to an IQ test. It has verbal, number and figural categories and supposedly you cannot prepare for it. In reality, you can always familiarize yourself with aptitude testing material and gain a few points, which is why a tiny minority of parents "prep". However once the child reaches their ceiling, prepping more won't magically generate a higher score.

I agree both types of tests have their value but it is important to understand the distinction.

I can only guess how the decision committee uses these but I see little distinction between 99% and high-90s map since both demonstrate a grasp of key material and the distinction is mostly a matter of outside enrichment. CogAt+Inview, however, are a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who says the CES test is weighted higher than other criteria? I don't think that's true. They've provided a list of criteria used but never talked about whether one thing is more important than the next thing.

For the middle schools they used a complicated formula that even included creating percentiles for some tests based on the socieoeconomic tier of the location of your home MS. They've never said whether they did the same for ES or not.

The high map is the criteria that's most easily gamed by the preppers so stands to reason it has a lower value.