Does anyone have language immersion regrets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS. Do you want to insist that every parent who enrolls their kid in Reggio Emilia promise to give back to the arts community or only enroll kids who are going to study art through college and beyond? Nobody knows what our PK3 kids are going to be good at or what path our families are going to take. Get over yourselves.

That is a nonsense comparison because you’re not relying on a beleaguered and discriminated on arts community to educate your children and integrarte them into your culture. Are you so blind to your privilege and so engrained in your xenophobia and racism that you cant understand that?

My kid goes to Sela, so STFU.

So it’s cool to use immigrants for your purposes and do nothing in return?

Not sure these schools use immigrants for their purposes - more like they ignore them, particularly at Stokes, YY and Sela.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS. Do you want to insist that every parent who enrolls their kid in Reggio Emilia promise to give back to the arts community or only enroll kids who are going to study art through college and beyond? Nobody knows what our PK3 kids are going to be good at or what path our families are going to take. Get over yourselves.

That is a nonsense comparison because you’re not relying on a beleaguered and discriminated on arts community to educate your children and integrarte them into your culture. Are you so blind to your privilege and so engrained in your xenophobia and racism that you cant understand that?

My kid goes to Sela, so STFU.

So it’s cool to use immigrants for your purposes and do nothing in return?

How, specifically, does a child being in a publically available immersion program exploit immigrants? But if that's your position, fine. We entered a lottery and got in. Sorry that upsets you. Should we have declined the spot instead? It seems like your beef should be with the system that sets this up. I think you are assigned Ming too much about me and others in the program without knowing anything about us as individuals and also

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main things I've gleaned from this thread are:

1. Some people whose kids go to Yu Ying don't like Yu Ying.

2. Some people whose kids don't go to Spanish-language immersion schools are quite bitter towards people whose kids do go to Spanish-language immersion schools.

Improve your reading comprehension.

3. If you’re going to go to an immersion school, you should truly prioritize that language, start learning it yourself, try to travel to a place where your child can hear native speakers, and you should volunteer to help that community.

4. Americans believe it is their right to exploit immigrants and get really angry when called out.

Much of the discussion in this thread ignores the fact that almost 80% of DCPS students are economically disadvantaged (not sure about charter %), many of whom come from tough/unstable home environments and/or neighborhoods. We are lucky enough to afford to travel for further language exposure, hire tutors/au pairs, etc.

However, most DC families cannot do this. And I doubt most would argue that a family in Ward 8 is trying to exploit immigrants by trying to lottery into an immersion school. Should poor English-speaking DC families not be given the opportunity to send their kids to an immersion school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS. Do you want to insist that every parent who enrolls their kid in Reggio Emilia promise to give back to the arts community or only enroll kids who are going to study art through college and beyond? Nobody knows what our PK3 kids are going to be good at or what path our families are going to take. Get over yourselves.

That is a nonsense comparison because you’re not relying on a beleaguered and discriminated on arts community to educate your children and integrarte them into your culture. Are you so blind to your privilege and so engrained in your xenophobia and racism that you cant understand that?

My kid goes to Sela, so STFU.

So it’s cool to use immigrants for your purposes and do nothing in return?

How, specifically, does a child being in a publically available immersion program exploit immigrants? But if that's your position, fine. We entered a lottery and got in. Sorry that upsets you. Should we have declined the spot instead? It seems like your beef should be with the system that sets this up. I think you are assigned too much about me and others in the program without knowing anything about us as individuals and showing a lot of items towards those who are taking steps to be more world aware.

But in the end yeah, we're pretty psyched our kid is learning Spanish at such a young age. Wish I had the opportunity. Go us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS. Do you want to insist that every parent who enrolls their kid in Reggio Emilia promise to give back to the arts community or only enroll kids who are going to study art through college and beyond? Nobody knows what our PK3 kids are going to be good at or what path our families are going to take. Get over yourselves.

That is a nonsense comparison because you’re not relying on a beleaguered and discriminated on arts community to educate your children and integrarte them into your culture. Are you so blind to your privilege and so engrained in your xenophobia and racism that you cant understand that?

My kid goes to Sela, so STFU.

So it’s cool to use immigrants for your purposes and do nothing in return?

How, specifically, does a child being in a publically available immersion program exploit immigrants? But if that's your position, fine. We entered a lottery and got in. Sorry that upsets you. Should we have declined the spot instead? It seems like your beef should be with the system that sets this up. I think you are assuming too much about me and others in the program without knowing anything about us as individuals and showing a lot of ire towards those who are taking steps to be more world aware.

But in the end yeah, we're pretty psyched our kid is learning Spanish at such a young age. Wish I had the opportunity. Go us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS. Do you want to insist that every parent who enrolls their kid in Reggio Emilia promise to give back to the arts community or only enroll kids who are going to study art through college and beyond? Nobody knows what our PK3 kids are going to be good at or what path our families are going to take. Get over yourselves.

That is a nonsense comparison because you’re not relying on a beleaguered and discriminated on arts community to educate your children and integrarte them into your culture. Are you so blind to your privilege and so engrained in your xenophobia and racism that you cant understand that?

My kid goes to Sela, so STFU.

So it’s cool to use immigrants for your purposes and do nothing in return?

How, specifically, does a child being in a publically available immersion program exploit immigrants? But if that's your position, fine. We entered a lottery and got in. Sorry that upsets you. Should we have declined the spot instead? It seems like your beef should be with the system that sets this up. I think you are assuming too much about me and others in the program without knowing anything about us as individuals and showing a lot of ire towards those who are taking steps to be more world aware.

But in the end yeah, we're pretty psyched our kid is learning Spanish at such a young age. Wish I had the opportunity. Go us!

Don’t bother trying to get this PP to explain how the exploitation happens. This guy has been trolling the language immersion threads for a long time.

Unless teachers of the target language (or teachers who are immigrants) are being paid less than other teachers, or are otherwise discriminated against in their employment, “exploitation” is not the right term to use. Instead, language immersion schools not only provide educational opportunities to students, but also provide professional opportunities to teachers who are native in the target language. These teachers provide teaching services in the classroom and are not expected to “integrate” students into their culture (as if that were even possible). Immigrant communities may in fact be “beleaguered and discriminated [against],” but if you are blaming language immersion schools for that, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always find it interesting that all the families who aren’t native speakers are confident that their kids speak “tons” of the target language. How are you confident of this? How do you know your preschooler is “fluent”?

This attitude is so tiresome. Of course kids in immersion aren't perfectly fluent (especially before age 10!); just like many people with second languages aren't perfect in the second language. I bet compared to before, the child does know 'tons' of the language. The point is to start down the road to fluency - some will get there sooner than others - thus teaching kids an important life skill in this shrinking world and potentially opening up more opportunities down the road. My DS, while probably not a perfect Spanish speaker, appears to communicate effectively with other Spanish speakers, and he's only 8 - I have enough knowledge of Spanish to feel confident about this. I imagine it will get even better as time goes on. Another perk is that it provides extra challenge at school.

It's fine if you don't prioritize second languages - maybe your kid does math club, or a sport, or plays an instrument. I doubt they will have achieved perfection in those skills by age 10, but that doesn't mean there isn't value.

+1. If we moved for a few years to Mexico or Spain or wherever, and we put our kids in the local schools, no one would say how terrible that is for our kids because we have no intention of living in Mexico, Spain, et al for the rest of our lives. People would say, "Oh what a great experience for them."

What you’re conveniently forgetting is that you’re not contributing anything back to the community. All you gringos with a few years of Spanish or French or whatever under your belt don’t remember is that there are parents whose kids really do speak that target language. And due to regulations imposed by Congress, our kids don’t get any preference at all. I really don’t care so much when I see parents trying hard and getting tutors or traveling to improve language skills (and starting at PK3). However, parents like the two PPs have low expectations and prevent the class from really achieving biliteracy, because they’re struggling with the remedial skills of your English speaking kids, really really bother me. I feel that schools should make parents sign a contract saying they will learn the target language also, and that they will do everything they can to support the language.

Also, if you’re at an immersion school, you should be volunteering or donating money or doing what you can to help the immigrant community that is helping to educate your kids.

Is that all? Do you have any other instructions on how I should live my life? It sounds like you have so much to teach. Please unburden yourself.

I mean go make America great again, and keep on take take taking from immigrants if that’s what you want to do. I can’t force you to be a good person. Hopefully your kid will learn kindness and generosity and hard work from his immigrant teachers since he/she/they aren’t going to learn it from you.

What does this word salad even mean?

It’s easy to pretend not to understand when you’re called out for the lousy person you are.

Or maybe you don't know how to make a coherent argument? All I've gathered from this gobbledygook is that I'm somehow oppressing immigrants by wanting my child to learn Spanish. Also, not to point out the obvious, but you don't actually know anything about me or my child. Maybe you shouldn't make such wild presumptions about things of which you're so plainly ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main things I've gleaned from this thread are:

1. Some people whose kids go to Yu Ying don't like Yu Ying.

2. Some people whose kids don't go to Spanish-language immersion schools are quite bitter towards people whose kids do go to Spanish-language immersion schools.

Improve your reading comprehension.

3. If you’re going to go to an immersion school, you should truly prioritize that language, start learning it yourself, try to travel to a place where your child can hear native speakers, and you should volunteer to help that community.

4. Americans believe it is their right to exploit immigrants and get really angry when called out.

Confession: I didn't actually read every post -- I skimmed. Most of the stuff written here is just completely ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS. Do you want to insist that every parent who enrolls their kid in Reggio Emilia promise to give back to the arts community or only enroll kids who are going to study art through college and beyond? Nobody knows what our PK3 kids are going to be good at or what path our families are going to take. Get over yourselves.

That is a nonsense comparison because you’re not relying on a beleaguered and discriminated on arts community to educate your children and integrarte them into your culture. Are you so blind to your privilege and so engrained in your xenophobia and racism that you cant understand that?

As a Spanish speaker with kids at an immersion school, I just want to say that this person does not represent my culture and values. My culture is warm and welcoming, and we love when people learn our language. We also know enough about real xenophobia to not call people racists for WANTING THEIR KIDS TO LEARN OUR LANGUAGE. Xenophobia is the opposite of that, in fact.

All the families at our immersion school are all part of a great community that all contribute to making a great school. The idea that the English speaking families (who contribute lots of money, time, effort, food, skill, etc.) to the school are somehow taking away from the Spanish speaking community is sad and very off base. In fact, the English speaking community is much more involved generally than the Spanish speaking families, and getting the Spanish speaking families involved is a big goal of the PTO.

This poster seems sad, confused and bitter. I actually doubt that she has kids at any immersion school, and she definitely does not represent our community AT ALL.

I’m a Latinx person who speaks Spanish. Families who don’t speak Spanish generally don’t contribute to the school. They keep standards low because the teachers have to do so much to bring those kids up to the level where they need to be. Parents don’t work hard on Spanish because they don’t prioritize it. It really upsetting. PP completely missed the point.

The fact is, as of course people who actually have kids in immersion schools know, that families who don't speak Spanish are among those that contribute the most to many schools. At our school, they are coaches, volunteers, fundraisers, tutors, organizers, etc. Without them, the school's success wouldn't be possible.

Also, this notion that people who don't happen to speak Spanish are xenophobic is also on its face ridiculous. Our school has people from all over the world, and their kids speak a wide array of languages from Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East and Central and South America. PP would doubtless be aware of some of this diversity if she wasn't so invested in playing the victim and pushing stereotypes of non-Spanish speakers.

PP, face it: you are a bigot who is looking to exclude people from goods and services that their taxes pay for based on the fact that their ethnic background is not the same as yours. You can try to obscure that by calling everybody else names, but that's the bottom line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main things I've gleaned from this thread are:

1. Some people whose kids go to Yu Ying don't like Yu Ying.

2. Some people whose kids don't go to Spanish-language immersion schools are quite bitter towards people whose kids do go to Spanish-language immersion schools.

Improve your reading comprehension.

3. If you’re going to go to an immersion school, you should truly prioritize that language, start learning it yourself, try to travel to a place where your child can hear native speakers, and you should volunteer to help that community.

4. Americans believe it is their right to exploit immigrants and get really angry when called out.

Much of the discussion in this thread ignores the fact that almost 80% of DCPS students are economically disadvantaged (not sure about charter %), many of whom come from tough/unstable home environments and/or neighborhoods. We are lucky enough to afford to travel for further language exposure, hire tutors/au pairs, etc.

However, most DC families cannot do this. And I doubt most would argue that a family in Ward 8 is trying to exploit immigrants by trying to lottery into an immersion school. Should poor English-speaking DC families not be given the opportunity to send their kids to an immersion school?

PP again. Just to add to what I wrote, it might be nice to have both a native speaker preference, and some sort of economically disadvantaged preference. The latter would address some of the criticisms of immersion schools on this thread--i.e., that they are a haven for white, affluent gentrifiers who are opting out of more heavily minority in-boundary schools.*

*I was curious about some of the highly sought after immersion schools. I saw that YY is about 1/3 black, and that LAMB was only 17%(!) black--I know some black families there and just assumed it was higher, so this was pretty surprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS. Do you want to insist that every parent who enrolls their kid in Reggio Emilia promise to give back to the arts community or only enroll kids who are going to study art through college and beyond? Nobody knows what our PK3 kids are going to be good at or what path our families are going to take. Get over yourselves.

That is a nonsense comparison because you’re not relying on a beleaguered and discriminated on arts community to educate your children and integrarte them into your culture. Are you so blind to your privilege and so engrained in your xenophobia and racism that you cant understand that?

As a Spanish speaker with kids at an immersion school, I just want to say that this person does not represent my culture and values. My culture is warm and welcoming, and we love when people learn our language. We also know enough about real xenophobia to not call people racists for WANTING THEIR KIDS TO LEARN OUR LANGUAGE. Xenophobia is the opposite of that, in fact.

All the families at our immersion school are all part of a great community that all contribute to making a great school. The idea that the English speaking families (who contribute lots of money, time, effort, food, skill, etc.) to the school are somehow taking away from the Spanish speaking community is sad and very off base. In fact, the English speaking community is much more involved generally than the Spanish speaking families, and getting the Spanish speaking families involved is a big goal of the PTO.

This poster seems sad, confused and bitter. I actually doubt that she has kids at any immersion school, and she definitely does not represent our community AT ALL.

Great diversity in DC public immersion schools is lovely. Unfortunately, if you want your monolingual little kids to emerge from their years of Spanish, French, Chinese or Hebrew ES immersion, and partial immersion program at DCI, with advanced proficiency in speaking the target language (never mind fluency) they need to have classmates who speak these languages at home and can model a culture for classmates. Lots of such classmates.

Otherwise, immersion only works well for the families where a parent doesn't speak the language of immersion fluently who can can host au pairs year in and year or for many years. A tutor a few hours a week, if that's all you can handle, won't do the job.

Wish things were different.





I’m a Latinx person who speaks Spanish. Families who don’t speak Spanish generally don’t contribute to the school. They keep standards low because the teachers have to do so much to bring those kids up to the level where they need to be. Parents don’t work hard on Spanish because they don’t prioritize it. It really upsetting. PP completely missed the point.

The fact is, as of course people who actually have kids in immersion schools know, that families who don't speak Spanish are among those that contribute the most to many schools. At our school, they are coaches, volunteers, fundraisers, tutors, organizers, etc. Without them, the school's success wouldn't be possible.

Also, this notion that people who don't happen to speak Spanish are xenophobic is also on its face ridiculous. Our school has people from all over the world, and their kids speak a wide array of languages from Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East and Central and South America. PP would doubtless be aware of some of this diversity if she wasn't so invested in playing the victim and pushing stereotypes of non-Spanish speakers.

PP, face it: you are a bigot who is looking to exclude people from goods and services that their taxes pay for based on the fact that their ethnic background is not the same as yours. You can try to obscure that by calling everybody else names, but that's the bottom line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main things I've gleaned from this thread are:

1. Some people whose kids go to Yu Ying don't like Yu Ying.

2. Some people whose kids don't go to Spanish-language immersion schools are quite bitter towards people whose kids do go to Spanish-language immersion schools.

Improve your reading comprehension.

3. If you’re going to go to an immersion school, you should truly prioritize that language, start learning it yourself, try to travel to a place where your child can hear native speakers, and you should volunteer to help that community.

4. Americans believe it is their right to exploit immigrants and get really angry when called out.

Much of the discussion in this thread ignores the fact that almost 80% of DCPS students are economically disadvantaged (not sure about charter %), many of whom come from tough/unstable home environments and/or neighborhoods. We are lucky enough to afford to travel for further language exposure, hire tutors/au pairs, etc.

However, most DC families cannot do this. And I doubt most would argue that a family in Ward 8 is trying to exploit immigrants by trying to lottery into an immersion school. Should poor English-speaking DC families not be given the opportunity to send their kids to an immersion school?

PP again. Just to add to what I wrote, it might be nice to have both a native speaker preference, and some sort of economically disadvantaged preference. The latter would address some of the criticisms of immersion schools on this thread--i.e., that they are a haven for white, affluent gentrifiers who are opting out of more heavily minority in-boundary schools.*

*I was curious about some of the highly sought after immersion schools. I saw that YY is about 1/3 black, and that LAMB was only 17%(!) black--I know some black families there and just assumed it was higher, so this was pretty surprising.

Great diversity in DC public immersion schools is lovely. Unfortunately, if you want your monolingual little kids to emerge from their years of Spanish, French, Chinese or Hebrew ES immersion, and partial immersion program at DCI, with advanced proficiency in speaking the target language (never mind fluency) they need to have classmates who speak these languages at home and can model a culture for classmates. Lots of such classmates.

Otherwise, immersion only works well for the families where a parent doesn't speak the language of immersion fluently who can can host au pairs year in and year or for many years. A tutor a few hours a week, if that's all you can handle, won't do the job.

Wish things were different.

[Anonymous]

My only language immersion regret is reading this thread! Yikes.

[Anonymous]

My regret is odd in that I wish I never knew how amazing it would be with a potential change ahead. Son has a chance to go to an amazing walking distance school next year (no immersion). I want that so bad but I'm not sure I can make the trade off when he is now speaking Spanish after one measly year. He is confident and switches up languages at home. I don't know if I can let go of that gift for convenience. If I never started I wouldn't know what I'm missing out on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main things I've gleaned from this thread are:

1. Some people whose kids go to Yu Ying don't like Yu Ying.

2. Some people whose kids don't go to Spanish-language immersion schools are quite bitter towards people whose kids do go to Spanish-language immersion schools.

Improve your reading comprehension.

3. If you’re going to go to an immersion school, you should truly prioritize that language, start learning it yourself, try to travel to a place where your child can hear native speakers, and you should volunteer to help that community.

4. Americans believe it is their right to exploit immigrants and get really angry when called out.

Much of the discussion in this thread ignores the fact that almost 80% of DCPS students are economically disadvantaged (not sure about charter %), many of whom come from tough/unstable home environments and/or neighborhoods. We are lucky enough to afford to travel for further language exposure, hire tutors/au pairs, etc.

However, most DC families cannot do this. And I doubt most would argue that a family in Ward 8 is trying to exploit immigrants by trying to lottery into an immersion school. Should poor English-speaking DC families not be given the opportunity to send their kids to an immersion school?

PP again. Just to add to what I wrote, it might be nice to have both a native speaker preference, and some sort of economically disadvantaged preference. The latter would address some of the criticisms of immersion schools on this thread--i.e., that they are a haven for white, affluent gentrifiers who are opting out of more heavily minority in-boundary schools.*

*I was curious about some of the highly sought after immersion schools. I saw that YY is about 1/3 black, and that LAMB was only 17%(!) black--I know some black families there and just assumed it was higher, so this was pretty surprising.

Great diversity in DC public immersion schools is lovely. Unfortunately, if you want your monolingual little kids to emerge from their years of Spanish, French, Chinese or Hebrew ES immersion, and partial immersion program at DCI, with advanced proficiency in speaking the target language (never mind fluency) they need to have classmates who speak these languages at home and can model a culture for classmates. Lots of such classmates.

Otherwise, immersion only works well for the families where a parent doesn't speak the language of immersion fluently who can can host au pairs year in and year or for many years. A tutor a few hours a week, if that's all you can handle, won't do the job.

Wish things were different.

PP here. This is key--how do you define "works well?" If the alternative for poor EOTR families is a low-performing neighborhood school with a peer group that is struggling with lots of family, neighborhood, and other stressors, then Yu Ying suddenly looks pretty good for a savvy family there. I haven't seen studies on immersion vs. neighborhood school for low-SES families, but I'd imagine that such a child would have better education, career, etc. outcomes attending YY followed by DCI, than if they attended their neighborhood schools.

If you're, say, an educated Ward 5 family of any ethnic background who'd like to lottery into a higher-performing school, plus your kids may gain at least some proficiency in another language, then a school like LAMB may look awesome for these purposes.

So again, it depends on what the desirable outcome is. If native or close to native fluency is the desired outcome, then yes, immersion in DC does not "work well." But please be careful when imposing your definition of what "works well" on other families, as these families may have other goals.