Why does Montgomery County Subsidize Taxes for Country Clubs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1000/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

Edited above in bold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Why on earth are you including the structure value of the residential assessment in determining your comp rate for a club, which, though I'm not much of a golfer, is pretty much necessarily open land?

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

The purpose of taxation is not to put people or institutions out of business. I don't go to country clubs but I'm not bothered by them the way you are. We don't live in a class warfare environment, thankfully. At least the clubs aren't factories polluting the skies. They offer green canopies that is beneficial, even if they're private lands, but the animals sure like it better than more cul-de-sacs. As others have pointed out, many small farms benefit from lower taxes despite being no more a benefit to local communities than country clubs. Nor is the area so chock full of country clubs that we need the land for other purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

The purpose of taxation is not to put people or institutions out of business. I don't go to country clubs but I'm not bothered by them the way you are. We don't live in a class warfare environment, thankfully. At least the clubs aren't factories polluting the skies. They offer green canopies that is beneficial, even if they're private lands, but the animals sure like it better than more cul-de-sacs. As others have pointed out, many small farms benefit from lower taxes despite being no more a benefit to local communities than country clubs. Nor is the area so chock full of country clubs that we need the land for other purposes.

Well, I would strongly disagree with that statment Mr. Concern Troll:


Anyways, there is zero reason Chevy Chase Club should get a $9m+ annual property tax break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:14:39 - They are not being subsidized they are receiving a reduction on property taxes because the nature of their business requires more land.

The Agri tax rate is not about environmentalism. Farms are not a plus to the environment anymore than a gold course is in terms of wildlife, tree cover etc. The Agri tax rate is to enable business that requires more land with fewer building facilities and lower density to operate.

The small farms throughout the Agricultural Preserve do not serve a high % of residents. They aren't open to the public or required to participate in farmers markets. By your logic, these farms in MoCo should all be paying the same tax and ones that aren't open to the public or operating a roadside stand most of the year should be hurt and punished. Why should a business that only really supports people who like expensive local produce and farm to table dining experiences be encouraged or supported in MoCo. Who do I call to burn these down?

See where your logic takes you. The scenario with the club on more land due to a golf course, tennis court or pool is the same. It receives the lower tax rate for land because it requires more land with fewer facilities than other commercial businesses or residences. Its not different than the farm.

I also think you are not understanding economic principles if you think it would be wiser for MoCo to drive farms and clubs out of the county. These businesses are attractive to the surrounding communities, quality of life and help keep up property values. MoCo has already driven all the private sector jobs over to VA and small business out to Howard and Frederick. If you now start driving out quality of life businesses then why would people live here?

PP makes an excellent point. The analogy others have made to the Ag Reserve is deeply flawed.
Look at the number of farms there that are equestrian businesses, boarding farms, or simply private horse farms. How do they benefit the masses?
Would your mobs with pitchforks like to burn this down too?
FWIW, I fully support the ag tax rate for all properties in the reserve for the reasons stated by the immediate PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

Not only that, but imagine how much LOWER everyone's property taxes could potentially be if these clubs simply paid the same rate as everyone else? My God, it's unfathomable.

Or, how much better funded our schools and public services could be... It boggles the mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

+1 The country club tax subsidy is ridiculous in an environment where MoCo is facing fiscal shortfalls. It wasn't a good idea, even when the county was flush with cash. There's no reason that one business (country clubs) should be getting a tax break that others don't.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

Not only that, but imagine how much LOWER everyone's property taxes could potentially be if these clubs simply paid the same rate as everyone else? My God, it's unfathomable.

Or, how much better funded our schools and public services could be... It boggles the mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

Bethesda Country Club is at 7601 Bradley. There are no houses directly across the street, but one that is within eyesight is 7714 Bradley.

The land size is 20,169 sqft = 0.463 acres. The land is assessed at $468k = $1.01m per acre. 2018 county tax rates (including state) are 1.1047 for tax class 42, which is valid for that property, so it's about $11k per acre land tax for residential land in that area.

+1 The country club tax subsidy is ridiculous in an environment where MoCo is facing fiscal shortfalls. It wasn't a good idea, even when the county was flush with cash. There's no reason that one business (country clubs) should be getting a tax break that others don't.

The Chevy Chase Club occupies 190 acres. At $1/acre, their tax bill is roughly $190K per year. Let's assume they also have a Water Quality protection charge, that brings them up to an even $200K. The acreage tax also ignores the value of improvements and buildings.

Let's look at 4015 Bradley Lane, which directly faces the country club grounds. This home is currently assessed by the county at $1.9m. This home is currently paying a property tax of nearly $22K/year on a 0.41 acre lot with a 5800 square foot house. Therefore, nearby residential property - land plus improvements - is taxed at roughly $53K per acre.

Why is the Chevy Chase Club getting a $52K per acre discount on its taxes?

If it were taxed at a similar rate, it would owe over $10m per year in property taxes.

Again, this is a massive subsidy to the small group of members of that club.

Not only that, but imagine how much LOWER everyone's property taxes could potentially be if these clubs simply paid the same rate as everyone else? My God, it's unfathomable.

Or, how much better funded our schools and public services could be... It boggles the mind.

+1 The country club tax subsidy is ridiculous in an environment where MoCo is facing fiscal shortfalls. It wasn't a good idea, even when the county was flush with cash. There's no reason that one business (country clubs) should be getting a tax break that others don't.

[Anonymous]

I get the feeling that there is one TP fool who thinks this is her issue and hill to die on. I guess the sit in over parking spaces is over.

Sigh -this is the dumbest issue. First, this is not much tax revenue. Second, it would even go into effect into 2030. Third, it will just lead to more development without infrastructure and schools as the clubs shut down and the owners get a windfall from being rezoned into residential land use.

I get that the local fool has a passionate hate for country clubs and wants to destroy them. OK everyone needs a little hobby so have it at but the rest of the adults need to focus on substantive issues to turn the county around not distractions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling that there is one TP fool who thinks this is her issue and hill to die on. I guess the sit in over parking spaces is over.

Sigh -this is the dumbest issue. First, this is not much tax revenue. Second, it would even go into effect into 2030. Third, it will just lead to more development without infrastructure and schools as the clubs shut down and the owners get a windfall from being rezoned into residential land use.

I get that the local fool has a passionate hate for country clubs and wants to destroy them. OK everyone needs a little hobby so have it at but the rest of the adults need to focus on substantive issues to turn the county around not distractions.

Not much tax revenue? $9.8m in extra revenue ANNUALLY just by bringing Chevy Chase Club up to the normal tax rate as residential property. And yes, the CCC is "improved" property - they have large buildings, sports facilities, landscaping, complex irrigation and plumbing systems, etc. Plus parking.

Multiply that by how many golf courses in MoCo? That's A LOT of money.

[Anonymous]

Also, apparently Burning Tree pays the market tax rate. They made that choice and their members have absorbed that higher cost in their fees. It probably stems from their "no women" policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, apparently Burning Tree pays the market tax rate. They made that choice and their members have absorbed that higher cost in their fees. It probably stems from their "no women" policies.

Yes, that was mentioned upthread. The rest of them don't pay the market rate as they allow women.

[Anonymous]

Multiply that by how many golf courses in MoCo? That's A LOT of money.

There aren't that many over 50 acre golf courses in MoCo. Its a tiny amount compared to what MoCo has missed out on in having a hostile business climate while VA and even DC welcomes businesses. It does simply read as Takoma Park people who hate country clubs take another blow to business which isn't good for the county but then TP politics never are good for the county so at least you're predictable.