Why does Montgomery County Subsidize Taxes for Country Clubs?

[Anonymous]

But farms produce tangible things that benefit everyone: food, domestic animals, etc.

No the small local farms in MoCo do not produce tangible goods for everyone. Many sell exclusively to high end restaurants or stores that are location and price prohibitive to the majority of the county. Some have CSA memberships that people buy into. Some attend only farmers markets in wealthy areas. Some produce very little and only keep enough animals or produce to retain the agri tax rate. They aren't open to the public and they are not required to distribute or sell their products equally across the county. Why are they getting the lower tax rate?

To the person saying that their company uses more electricity but doesn't get a rate break on power. In VA, the larger data centers absolutely get a break on utility costs that they negotiate with the power company. It all comes down to whether a community wants your business enough to operate there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: “if _________ has to pay a full tax rate, it’ll just shut down and sell the land to developers”

Yeah? And? Why is that a bad thing? So there’s one less, or ten less, private country clubs. So what? Why should I care if rich a-holes have to play golf at Lake Needwood County Golf Course where I play?

If they sell the land to developers, and houses get built on it, those houses will generate more tax revenue than the club did.

Under Kelo v. New London, that was grounds for eminent domain in and of itself.

+1. If they can’t afford to operate at market prices for the land with the fees they charge, then it’s not a profitable business. No need to subsidize them to keep them afloat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

“if _________ has to pay a full tax rate, it’ll just shut down and sell the land to developers”

Yeah? And? Why is that a bad thing? So there’s one less, or ten less, private country clubs. So what? Why should I care if rich a-holes have to play golf at Lake Needwood County Golf Course where I play?

If they sell the land to developers, and houses get built on it, those houses will generate more tax revenue than the club did.

Under Kelo v. New London, that was grounds for eminent domain in and of itself.

The property values in Potomac would decline if the clubs and private schools left for VA. They're one of the few reasons why wealthy people still move to Potomac. Montgomery County has been going downhill for over a decade and is already getting really trashy. This would just put one more nail in the coffin. You won't raise enough in additional property taxes to offset the overall decline in value across the area. You lose income and sales tax revenues when you push out the wealthier base too. Its just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The county has hired consultants to tell them why MoCo can't attract new business while neighboring counties, cities and states are flourishing. Amazon didn't even give MoCo a second look despite MoCo/MD waving 8 B in incentives. MoCo is seen as so hostile to business that almost no responsible businesses will consider relocating or starting here. Its not going to help anything to become even more hostile to more types of businesses.

Getting rid of the smaller swim and tennis clubs really screws normal non wealthy people that enjoy these places. This is where the swim teams practice, labor day parties happen and people meet new neighbors. There are plenty of smaller older houses that aren't in developments with an HOA pool.

Its just stupid to spend time on this when the county is in REAL trouble. Its just so sad to see how idiots have wrecked what once was a good place to live.

Yes it is. It used to be one of the best places in the US and now it’s just an embarrassment and many of us are making exit plans.

BS. Go look at housing prices in the most desirable areas of MoCo - they ain't going down.

The fact of the matter is that Bethesda is no longer the sleepy suburb it once was 20-30 years ago. It's in the core area of a major MSA. There will be more and more density every year.

Don't compare Bethesda to Potomac; the proper analogy is Arlington. How many country clubs are there in Arlington? Just one (Washington Golf & Country Club....two if you count the Army-Navy Club owned by the USG. And I doubt WGCC is getting a deeply discounted tax rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But farms produce tangible things that benefit everyone: food, domestic animals, etc.

No the small local farms in MoCo do not produce tangible goods for everyone. Many sell exclusively to high end restaurants or stores that are location and price prohibitive to the majority of the county. Some have CSA memberships that people buy into. Some attend only farmers markets in wealthy areas. Some produce very little and only keep enough animals or produce to retain the agri tax rate. They aren't open to the public and they are not required to distribute or sell their products equally across the county. Why are they getting the lower tax rate?

To the person saying that their company uses more electricity but doesn't get a rate break on power. In VA, the larger data centers absolutely get a break on utility costs that they negotiate with the power company. It all comes down to whether a community wants your business enough to operate there.

Are you nuts? CSA, high end restaurants....those are all open to the public. The farms definitely hold themselves out as a public accommodation; in fact, that's their entire business model.

To all the morons trying to equate country clubs to farms: just stop. It's a ludicrous comparison.

[Anonymous]

Are you nuts? CSA, high end restaurants....those are all open to the public. The farms definitely hold themselves out as a public accommodation; in fact, that's their entire business model.

Only to those who can afford it. No one in Langley Park is enjoying a high end meal at a farm to table restaurant. The country club memberships are open to the public as well it just that very few people can afford to join them. Congressional's initial membership fee is in the hundreds of thousands. The ones that discriminate like Burning Tree do not take any tax breaks so they can continue to only accept certain people.

The smaller clubs that are farther out are much less expensive and usually don't even have a waiting list. Anyone who wants to join can. The ones closer in have first come, first serve waiting lists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are you nuts? CSA, high end restaurants....those are all open to the public. The farms definitely hold themselves out as a public accommodation; in fact, that's their entire business model.

Only to those who can afford it. No one in Langley Park is enjoying a high end meal at a farm to table restaurant. The country club memberships are open to the public as well it just that very few people can afford to join them. Congressional's initial membership fee is in the hundreds of thousands. The ones that discriminate like Burning Tree do not take any tax breaks so they can continue to only accept certain people.

The smaller clubs that are farther out are much less expensive and usually don't even have a waiting list. Anyone who wants to join can. The ones closer in have first come, first serve waiting lists.

That’s a bunch of BS. Giant and even Walmart carry local vegetables not to mention your local Whole Foods. 60% of kids go to a pumpkin patch each October. How many kids are part of families with country club memberships. Half a percent? 1%? No one thinks subsidizing country clubs is a good idea...except country club owners and their lobbyists trying to shape public opinion on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Arlington taxes golf courses based upon being classified as “devoted to open space” in tax assessments, rather than having “development potential.”

[Anonymous]

Bushwood’s days are numbered, Judge Smales.

[Anonymous]

I can't fathom why this isn't getting covered in the paper or the local news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't fathom why this isn't getting covered in the paper or the local news.

Call them.

[phone] for Fox5
[phone] for Channel 9

[Anonymous]

Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't fathom why this isn't getting covered in the paper or the local news.

Call them.

[phone] for Fox5
[phone] for Channel 9

Call your city/county elected official. Property tax rates are usually set at the local level. If you don’t think it’s fair, lobby for change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Spot on. She wants to “bleed them dry.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why am I not surprised by this so typical for DCUM thread.

I don't think I've ever set foot inside a country or golf club in my life but even I can tell the angry posters (maybe it's the same one poster) are more upset at the concept of country clubs than that they're not paying what he/she considers to be fair taxes. What they're really pissed off is the clubs, not the lower taxes.

Why are country clubs - in some of the densest parts of Bethesda - given a sweetheart deal at $1K an acre? Homes just across the street from CC Country Club are easily paying $10K for a small 1/8 of an acre lot.

[Anonymous]

Exactly. Why indeed?