Season 2 of “Marvelous Mrs. Maizel” starts tomorrow!!

[Anonymous]

My late stepfather was from an upper class Jewish family in New York in the early to mid-50s, and he was very much raised by his nanny/housekeeper. His relationship with his mother was very formal, but he remained very close to his nanny throughout her life. He visited her more frequently than he did his mother -- so that rings true to me.

I agree that the season improved after the French episodes were out of the way. I didn't love Season 2 as much as I did the first season, but I thought it was solid once they got to the Catskills.

People talk about how Midge was narcissistic, and I agree. But think about the characteristics that that first wave of women who broke into what was formerly a man's world had to possess. My grandmother worked her way up from being a paralegal to a lead contract negotiator, surrounded by lawyers and union guys. She was a huge narcissist and an alcoholic -- and her whole life was her work, to the detriment of her child (my mother, who was effectively raised by her grandmother).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My late stepfather was from an upper class Jewish family in New York in the early to mid-50s, and he was very much raised by his nanny/housekeeper. His relationship with his mother was very formal, but he remained very close to his nanny throughout her life. He visited her more frequently than he did his mother -- so that rings true to me.

I agree that the season improved after the French episodes were out of the way. I didn't love Season 2 as much as I did the first season, but I thought it was solid once they got to the Catskills.

People talk about how Midge was narcissistic, and I agree. But think about the characteristics that that first wave of women who broke into what was formerly a man's world had to possess. My grandmother worked her way up from being a paralegal to a lead contract negotiator, surrounded by lawyers and union guys. She was a huge narcissist and an alcoholic -- and her whole life was her work, to the detriment of her child (my mother, who was effectively raised by her grandmother).

Its an interesting fact regarding women in high positions are more likely to self-medicate their stress and anxiety away. I wonder if this will be explored in future seasons for Midge.

[Anonymous]

Love her parents.
Like the show.
Hated the wedding takeover. Comes dangerously close to making us dislike the main character.

[Anonymous]

I really liked Emily Nussbaum's review. It spoke to me about a lot of things I didn't like about the show but couldn't articulate very well myself.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/24/the-cloying-fantasia-of-the-marvelous-mrs-maisel/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love her parents.
Like the show.
Hated the wedding takeover. Comes dangerously close to making us dislike the main character.

I think that’s a huge part of the intent with season 2. To come dangerously close to disliking Midge. The writers wanted us to cringe uncomfortably at the wedding toast.

Conversely, I love how the tables have turned with Joel and he became much more likable and almost honorable in season 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love her parents.
Like the show.
Hated the wedding takeover. Comes dangerously close to making us dislike the main character.

I think that’s a huge part of the intent with season 2. To come dangerously close to disliking Midge. The writers wanted us to cringe uncomfortably at the wedding toast.

Conversely, I love how the tables have turned with Joel and he became much more likable and almost honorable in season 2.

I think it's also about having to be selfish for a passion. She's lost perspective a little (friend's wedding, not even thinking of where to put the kids for a second when she goes to Europe), but that's how artists sometimes have to be. It also reminded me of the La La Land ending a little. You can't always have everything in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I watched the first episode of Season 2, but skimmed through the parts with her manager. Didn’t even finish the second episode and not sure I ever will.

My main question is: who, exactly, is raising the kids? Is it the maid? I get it that they park the boy in front of the TV for hours, but what about the baby? Mrs. Maizel goes to Paris and leaves the kids with who? Not the father! He didn’t even know she was in Paris.

I realize this is supposed to be escapism, but I’m just not into it. I did enjoy Season 1.

I agree. I'm always one to say, "don't ask too many questions, just accept that it's fiction," but the issue with who is taking care of the kids really bugs me. I assume it's Zelda, the maid/housekeeper, but the vagueness surrounding the kids is annoying. I wish they had just not had her have kids to begin with. Then I could escape along with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found the last episode heart breaking. Essentially she's in that incredibly large closet with the clothes and the dad comes in to say she can marry Benjamin -- and it's like in that moment that she realizes that as a woman you get one or the other. You get the husband or the career but you don't get both. And you realize that Sophie Lennon only got the career, the painter in the previous episode only got the career.

The song about being alone is about having to choose and it's heartbreaking in the 1950's that someone that talented had to choose and it's heartbreaking how many women still have to choose today. When I joined the foreign service in the 1990's, all the guys showed up engaged with a fiancee and all the women had just been dumped by a guy who had no intention of giving up his career to go abroad.

Scary thing is that that I met a class of new foreign service officers recently and the distribution was pretty much the same. Single women and guys with SAHMs.

I think that Midge realizes that either she breaks up with Ben or he breaks up with her because this clearly isn't what he signed up for. He wanted a doctor's wife, not a lady with a career.

I see what you're saying, but let's remember - many women *choose* to be SAHMs. It's not like it's a default position that they're relegated to because they chose a husband and kids, especially these days. It's very much a choice for a lot of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Questions After Finale:

1. In both seasons 1 and 2, there are allusions made to Abe's political past, which I am guessing was involvement in the Socialist and/or Communist party pre-Stalinist purges/McCartyhism. If so, why did he hire Midge's constitutional/criminal lawyer from Season 1?

2. Does Joel have siblings? Who is going to run his father's company if he becomes a club owner?

3. Can Susie manage Sophie AND go to Europe with Midge?

4. Will Rose stay with Abe if she can't study at Columbia or live in her apartment?

5. Who will watch the children while Midge is in Europe if Zelda isn't around?

6. Will Ettenberg wait for Midge? He doesn't seem the type looking for a normal doctor's wife.

7. Will Midge want Ettenberg to wait for her after Joel?

8. Will Susie's father come out of the woodwork? If so, who is he?

9. What is Noah working on?

10. Will Midge obtain domestic success after Europe?

I think the "I just want one night with someone who loves me" is going to turn into Midge's accidental pregnancy with Joel's third baby which she discovers while on tour.

Very Gilmore Girls of you. That would be fantastic.

Ew, I think it would be awful. She's already completely disinterested in her current kids. Why introduce another one to the mix?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I love how the Catskills was like family summer camp, but high-end, with dinner and dancing every night. Corny fun. I wish we still had something like it these days.

Cruises are like that but less corny. DH and I dance a lot and I do think it's more of a lost art now, back then everyone knew how.

I wonder a lot about the childcare. Everyone just expects Zelda to do it. How does that poor woman cook, clean and take care of these kids all day? She's there until late at night too.

I was kind of shocked at her performance at the wedding. She acts like she forgot there was a Priest present, but she grew up around Rabbis and you wouldn't say those things in front of them either.

+1
The childcare issue *really* bothers me. I get that this is just a silly, fluffy show and we're not to think too deeply about it or take it seriously. But honestly, the kids are less than props even. No one ever interacts with them (though we occasionally will see Midge patting one on the head or reading to one briefly). I agree with a PP who said this show would be more enjoyable (and believable) if she hadn't had kids yet. As a mom, all I can think about is "Where are the kids? Who's watching the kids??" Not only Midge, but her parents seem completely disinterested in them.

This should be a different thread, but that's probably the most realistic part of the show. In my family (UMC with a SAHM) in the 50s, kids were never read to. They didn't eat dinner with the parents. The moms went off and played cards/social functions with their friends and the kids just played outside all day. Very young kids like Esther tagged along with the housekeeper during the day, but didn't get too much attention either. Parents went out at night without anyone watching the sleeping kids.

I find it funny that people have a hard time remembering that children weren't coddled and worshipped in ways that they are today. The whole schlep with minding children and living your entire existence for them is very very recent in human history.

no, it's not. The hovering and the making parenting a competitive sport and worrying about doing everything THE BEST evidence supported way. that's newer but it's newer only in this more rarified segment of society as a whole. It was not and has never been the norm to have full time home help staff in the US. It was a small segment in the 50s. Everyone likes to think they were UMC with this kind of life but it's rewriting history. It was an upper class lifestyle. Nothing middle or average about it. Kids were a lot more independent and out of the house to play in neighborhoods at young ages, giving parents more adult time, that's certain. There were certainty much more involved parents than this show portrays in the 50s and 60s, just not helicopters. This show reflects a very narrow set of values/views/lifestyle when it comes to what having a family means, a d that's ok, but it wasn't the norm then either

Well said. This is exactly right. Midge comes from an upper class family, nothing middle class about it. Very few people lived that way. My mom was a young adult around that time frame and from an UMC family. She's been watching the show and said she personally knew of no one who lived that way, though certainly, some very wealthy families did. My mom's cohort was made up of young women who worked until they married, and then most were able to stay home with their children. The "housekeeper" wasn't raising the kids of the middle and upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really liked Emily Nussbaum's review. It spoke to me about a lot of things I didn't like about the show but couldn't articulate very well myself.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/24/the-cloying-fantasia-of-the-marvelous-mrs-maisel/

+1
I agreed with her comments about the scenes in France - very "twee" and Disney-like. And she also says she doesn't find Midge's comic routines funny - I don't either.

[Anonymous]

I thought the last episode was bizarre. Here is Lenny Bruce, telling some sort of woe-is-me, sad story?? What was that all about? I mean, obviously, I get that Midge is relating what he says to her and the fact that she'll probably wind up all alone at some point. But what's the deal with Lenny Bruce?

That Midge would say yes to the tour so quickly, with zero thought for her kids - or even for Benjamin - didn't add up to me. Everything really is all about her. She is excruciatingly selfish.

The story line with Abe is also bizarre and frankly, boring. Why was he even hired at Bell Labs if he had a "questionable" past? Why is he suing - for wrongful termination? I'm so confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how the Catskills was like family summer camp, but high-end, with dinner and dancing every night. Corny fun. I wish we still had something like it these days.

All I could think of was Dirty Dancing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how the Catskills was like family summer camp, but high-end, with dinner and dancing every night. Corny fun. I wish we still had something like it these days.

All I could think of was Dirty Dancing!

Same here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really liked Emily Nussbaum's review. It spoke to me about a lot of things I didn't like about the show but couldn't articulate very well myself.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/24/the-cloying-fantasia-of-the-marvelous-mrs-maisel/

Except that the reviewer “cheered” at the wedding scene, which I cannot fathom.