Class Size at DCPS Brent Elementary in Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, please tell us how that would work. Give us a rough idea of where the City should be drawing these new school boundaries.

As was pointed out pages ago, the several DCPS elementary schools in the catchment areas bordering Brent's are also getting crowded.

As far as I can tell, as the Cap Hill baby boom fails to abate, DCPS needs to do the following, or some combo of the following...

open one or two new Ward 6 elementary schools
pony up to expand existing crowded facilities substantially
cynically let conditions in the most crowded schools deteriorate to the point that fewer parents enroll

is tyler over-crowded?

Tyler has the highest enrollment of Hill schools in one building, I believe. 525. The capacity is about 540 max, I think.

that doesn't make it over enrolled. in the last facility analysis (2016) it rated as 91% ? 96% utilized (4 of 5 in rubric).

it's actually pretty well aligned between available space and utilization.

I always have extreme playground envy when I pass Tyler's playing field.

[Anonymous]

To answer your question, yes, Oyster does exactly that. All inbound, mixed Spanish and English, with spaces reserved for Special Needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what does Brent have - 2 PreK3 and 2 PreK 4 classes?

Cut down to 1 PreK 4 class and move along.

Take the PreK3 classrooms (smaller footprint) and make it the 5th grade class room since that grade is the smallest.

Take the shuffle everything to accommodate the another class where needed.

Stop taking OOB and do not take OOB siblings. When families move OOB - do not let them re-enroll.

Brent has no PreK3 or PreK4 classes, only blended ECE classes.

Right tell Principal L. Tell the LSAT. Make it happen.

Aren't there four Lead ECE teachers, so does the configuration of blended PK3/PK4 or two separate really matter? The ECE presumably takes up four classrooms that could be used to relieve crowding in the compulsory grades.

If you cut down to one PK4 from four blended PK classes, that would be 17 kids. So Brent would be providing ECE for 17 out of about 60-80 IB kids in cohort each year, all of whom would be siblings. Does any other PK4 in the city operate for such a small percentage of the IB kids? The answer is no. FWIW I’m IB and am in favor of cutting PK4 or even all ECE to accommodate compulsory grades in the small building. But eliminating three out of four of the ECE classes does not make sense.

[Anonymous]

The pps who come here to express a burning desire to see ECE dramatically scaled back at Brent don't seem to have a clue how capacity management decisions are made in DCPS schools. Parents and school admins have much less say in these matters than you might think. Admins can't push to axe programs DCPS wants to retain in almost all of its EotP elementary schools without coming to blows with systems higher ups. Not wise to pick a fight when your banged-up building needs modernizing in a big way, and not just because it's become crowded.

[Anonymous]

All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

Um, that is helpful advice but there are no actual classrooms to expand into. That is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

Um, that is helpful advice but there are no actual classrooms to expand into. That is the problem.

This exactly. I wouldn’t say anyone has a “burning desire” to scale back ECE at Brent. But more space is needed in the near to medium term, and there is no more room in the building, there are no near term plans for modernization and there is little to no room for additional trailers. So people are looking for creative solutions and scaling back ECE in favor of compulsory grades is one such idea. Parent leaders are definitely open to other ideas — but just talking about cutting OOB waitlist offers is not sufficient to deal with the space problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

Um, that is helpful advice but there are no actual classrooms to expand into. That is the problem.

This exactly. I wouldn’t say anyone has a “burning desire” to scale back ECE at Brent. But more space is needed in the near to medium term, and there is no more room in the building, there are no near term plans for modernization and there is little to no room for additional trailers. So people are looking for creative solutions and scaling back ECE in favor of compulsory grades is one such idea. Parent leaders are definitely open to other ideas — but just talking about cutting OOB waitlist offers is not sufficient to deal with the space problem.

Scaling back ECE is EXACTLY what Ward 3 schools have done. They have never had PK3 and many have only 1 or 2 classes of PK 4 that has far fewer seats available than can meet demand. That is what you do when you run out of space because your now middle and upper class populations have increased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

Um, that is helpful advice but there are no actual classrooms to expand into. That is the problem.

This exactly. I wouldn’t say anyone has a “burning desire” to scale back ECE at Brent. But more space is needed in the near to medium term, and there is no more room in the building, there are no near term plans for modernization and there is little to no room for additional trailers. So people are looking for creative solutions and scaling back ECE in favor of compulsory grades is one such idea. Parent leaders are definitely open to other ideas — but just talking about cutting OOB waitlist offers is not sufficient to deal with the space problem.

Scaling back ECE is EXACTLY what Ward 3 schools have done. They have never had PK3 and many have only 1 or 2 classes of PK 4 that has far fewer seats available than can meet demand. That is what you do when you run out of space because your now middle and upper class populations have increased.

At our Ward 3 we didnt' have extra space- and still don't. The room that was created to add the 4th classroom for the needed grade level was pulled away from other resources (in our case, a special). The room is odd shaped, not as large, but the kids are served best by having a better ratio of teachers to students. We maintain only one room for PK4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

Um, that is helpful advice but there are no actual classrooms to expand into. That is the problem.

This exactly. I wouldn’t say anyone has a “burning desire” to scale back ECE at Brent. But more space is needed in the near to medium term, and there is no more room in the building, there are no near term plans for modernization and there is little to no room for additional trailers. So people are looking for creative solutions and scaling back ECE in favor of compulsory grades is one such idea. Parent leaders are definitely open to other ideas — but just talking about cutting OOB waitlist offers is not sufficient to deal with the space problem.

Scaling back ECE is EXACTLY what Ward 3 schools have done. They have never had PK3 and many have only 1 or 2 classes of PK 4 that has far fewer seats available than can meet demand. That is what you do when you run out of space because your now middle and upper class populations have increased.

At our Ward 3 we didnt' have extra space- and still don't. The room that was created to add the 4th classroom for the needed grade level was pulled away from other resources (in our case, a special). The room is odd shaped, not as large, but the kids are served best by having a better ratio of teachers to students. We maintain only one room for PK4.

That's the point though. How many classes of PK4 could you fill? What about PK3 if you had the space?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

Um, that is helpful advice but there are no actual classrooms to expand into. That is the problem.

This exactly. I wouldn’t say anyone has a “burning desire” to scale back ECE at Brent. But more space is needed in the near to medium term, and there is no more room in the building, there are no near term plans for modernization and there is little to no room for additional trailers. So people are looking for creative solutions and scaling back ECE in favor of compulsory grades is one such idea. Parent leaders are definitely open to other ideas — but just talking about cutting OOB waitlist offers is not sufficient to deal with the space problem.

Scaling back ECE is EXACTLY what Ward 3 schools have done. They have never had PK3 and many have only 1 or 2 classes of PK 4 that has far fewer seats available than can meet demand. That is what you do when you run out of space because your now middle and upper class populations have increased.

That's the point though. How many classes of PK4 could you fill? What about PK3 if you had the space?

Easily with siblings we could have three classrooms each of PS3 and four PK4 if space was available. As it is, most siblings, if they are lucky enough to get into other programs attend neighboring schools and transfer in at K. Thus, the expansion at that stage.
At our Ward 3 we didnt' have extra space- and still don't. The room that was created to add the 4th classroom for the needed grade level was pulled away from other resources (in our case, a special). The room is odd shaped, not as large, but the kids are served best by having a better ratio of teachers to students. We maintain only one room for PK4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All ward 3 parents are reading this thread, amused.

Agree with this and the previous poster!

At our Ward 3 school, due to the overcrowding, parents worked with the administration to open a 4th classroom for a grade that had ballooned in size (and hand numerous kids with challenging needs to be met.) So very possible to partner with administration to then present arguments to systems higher ups.

Um, that is helpful advice but there are no actual classrooms to expand into. That is the problem.

This exactly. I wouldn’t say anyone has a “burning desire” to scale back ECE at Brent. But more space is needed in the near to medium term, and there is no more room in the building, there are no near term plans for modernization and there is little to no room for additional trailers. So people are looking for creative solutions and scaling back ECE in favor of compulsory grades is one such idea. Parent leaders are definitely open to other ideas — but just talking about cutting OOB waitlist offers is not sufficient to deal with the space problem.

Scaling back ECE is EXACTLY what Ward 3 schools have done. They have never had PK3 and many have only 1 or 2 classes of PK 4 that has far fewer seats available than can meet demand. That is what you do when you run out of space because your now middle and upper class populations have increased.

That's the point though. How many classes of PK4 could you fill? What about PK3 if you had the space?

Easily with siblings we could have three classrooms each of PS3 and four PK4 if space was available. As it is, most siblings, if they are lucky enough to get into other programs attend neighboring schools and transfer in at K. Thus, the expansion at that stage.
At our Ward 3 we didnt' have extra space- and still don't. The room that was created to add the 4th classroom for the needed grade level was pulled away from other resources (in our case, a special). The room is odd shaped, not as large, but the kids are served best by having a better ratio of teachers to students. [b]We maintain only one room for PK4.[/b

Was the special eliminated or does it now travel to classes? It is certainly useful to know what other schools have done.

It’s worth noting though that Brent could fill 4-5 classrooms of PS3 and PK4 (four each) with IB kids so it is an even larger PK population.

[Anonymous]

Wiping out a PREK4 classroom WotP is probably not big deal. But at Brent, the ECE classrooms were built as Head Start classrooms in the 60s. They're unusually small in a building where all the classrooms are already smaller than the DCPS elementary school norm.

You couldn't just dump ECE in one room and use that classroom for the older rooms - not enough room. You'd have to knock down a wall or two and join two ECE to create a bigger room to accommodate older kids. Even using an ECE room for a special wouldn't work very well due to space limitations. There just aren't any easy answers without a massive budget for a big renovation with the kids in a swing space for a school year, maybe longer.

[Anonymous]

This is a funny thread as a WOTP school person - going through all the exact same arguments and issues that are always raised. If you look at the patterns, many of the WOTP schools have class sizes that can go up to 28 - and that's usually the tipping point for them adding a new class for that cohort grade. Many are overcrowded, many of them still have 10-15% OOB kids despite overcrowding situations (with classes in trailers, and class sizes that large
- Key - with the entire 4th & 5th now in trailers) or even higher %s of OOB with overcrowding (Eaton!). Many of the schools have a small building footprint. NONE of them have preK 3 - and some have had to cut back on preK 4 (Stoddert is down to 1 prek 4) even though they could fill much more with just IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wiping out a PREK4 classroom WotP is probably not big deal. But at Brent, the ECE classrooms were built as Head Start classrooms in the 60s. They're unusually small in a building where all the classrooms are already smaller than the DCPS elementary school norm.

You couldn't just dump ECE in one room and use that classroom for the older rooms - not enough room. You'd have to knock down a wall or two and join two ECE to create a bigger room to accommodate older kids. Even using an ECE room for a special wouldn't work very well due to space limitations. There just aren't any easy answers without a massive budget for a big renovation with the kids in a swing space for a school year, maybe longer.

If that's what has to happen, then that's what has to happen. Not sure why this is so mind bending to the Brent folks. There are plenty of PK programs around the city your child can still attend if free preschool tuition is that pressing. K-5 kids are the priority.