Class Size at DCPS Brent Elementary in Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS definitely doesn't want Brent to cut PreS3, partly because in-boundary special ed kids get first dibs on entry to ECE programs. DCPS doesn't want these kids to develop more expensive-to-address academic/developmental problems for lack of access to high quality ECE.

Brent can't expect to convince DCPS to pony up for a massive renovation (either total gut job or raze the building and start over on the foundation) that will cost tens of millions of dollars if they're pushing for changes system leaders are hostile to. That's just not how renovation budgets are secured in DCPS.

I’m skeptical. Aren’t most special ed children identified after they start school? How does Brent know DCPS is so hostile to this? Have they officially suggested it and been refused? In years past, hasn’t most of the hostility come from Brent PTA parents with younger children who would benefit from ECE?

Yes, several parents have suggested this and there is absolutely desire to do it. Note that there are several schools on Capitol Hill with similar issues (over crowded, huge IB ECE wait lists) and DCPS has never done this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS definitely doesn't want Brent to cut PreS3, partly because in-boundary special ed kids get first dibs on entry to ECE programs. DCPS doesn't want these kids to develop more expensive-to-address academic/developmental problems for lack of access to high quality ECE.

Brent can't expect to convince DCPS to pony up for a massive renovation (either total gut job or raze the building and start over on the foundation) that will cost tens of millions of dollars if they're pushing for changes system leaders are hostile to. That's just not how renovation budgets are secured in DCPS.

I’m skeptical. Aren’t most special ed children identified after they start school? How does Brent know DCPS is so hostile to this? Have they officially suggested it and been refused? In years past, hasn’t most of the hostility come from Brent PTA parents with younger children who would benefit from ECE?

Yes, several parents have suggested this and there is absolutely desire to do it. Note that there are several schools on Capitol Hill with similar issues (over crowded, huge IB ECE wait lists) and DCPS has never done this.

I know parents have suggested it, but they have been rejected by the PTA. I'm talking about Brent as a school proposing cutting ECE and being refused by the DC powers that be.

As far as I can tell, the hostility is internal.

[Anonymous]

NP. Hello! Cutting ECE slots at Brent = bandaid treatment to deal w/crowding.

Brent needs a bunch of new classrooms, probably w/playground on roof like MURCH.

1-2 more trailers could fit on the D St. side by the dumpster. Just another interim solution buying Brent a year or 2 of current level of crowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS definitely doesn't want Brent to cut PreS3, partly because in-boundary special ed kids get first dibs on entry to ECE programs. DCPS doesn't want these kids to develop more expensive-to-address academic/developmental problems for lack of access to high quality ECE.

Brent can't expect to convince DCPS to pony up for a massive renovation (either total gut job or raze the building and start over on the foundation) that will cost tens of millions of dollars if they're pushing for changes system leaders are hostile to. That's just not how renovation budgets are secured in DCPS.

I’m skeptical. Aren’t most special ed children identified after they start school? How does Brent know DCPS is so hostile to this? Have they officially suggested it and been refused? In years past, hasn’t most of the hostility come from Brent PTA parents with younger children who would benefit from ECE?

Yes, several parents have suggested this and there is absolutely desire to do it. Note that there are several schools on Capitol Hill with similar issues (over crowded, huge IB ECE wait lists) and DCPS has never done this.

I know parents have suggested it, but they have been rejected by the PTA. I'm talking about Brent as a school proposing cutting ECE and being refused by the DC powers that be.

As far as I can tell, the hostility is internal.

And you know this because you're on the LSAT, PTA Board or SIT? Hostility is both external + internal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Hello! Cutting ECE slots at Brent = bandaid treatment to deal w/crowding.

Brent needs a bunch of new classrooms, probably w/playground on roof like MURCH.

1-2 more trailers could fit on the D St. side by the dumpster. Just another interim solution buying Brent a year or 2 of current level of crowding.

No one suggests that cutting ECE is the final solution. It's one logical step that could create needed space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Hello! Cutting ECE slots at Brent = bandaid treatment to deal w/crowding.

Brent needs a bunch of new classrooms, probably w/playground on roof like MURCH.

1-2 more trailers could fit on the D St. side by the dumpster. Just another interim solution buying Brent a year or 2 of current level of crowding.

No one suggests that cutting ECE is the final solution. It's one logical step that could create needed space.

Hello! Cry me a river. If it's really that crowded, cut PK3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Hello! Cutting ECE slots at Brent = bandaid treatment to deal w/crowding.

Brent needs a bunch of new classrooms, probably w/playground on roof like MURCH.

1-2 more trailers could fit on the D St. side by the dumpster. Just another interim solution buying Brent a year or 2 of current level of crowding.

No one suggests that cutting ECE is the final solution. It's one logical step that could create needed space.

Hello! Cry me a river. If it's really that crowded, cut PK3.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Let's be clear. Cutting ECE is not an option (even if it should be). The ECE program is one of DCPS's success stories and to my knowledge one has never been cut (reduced yes, not cut).

The other thing we should be clear on is no amount of parents pushing this will cause any sort of change. People suggesting that parents should just cut the program have not dealt with DCPS in a real way. If you read this board, you know that DCPS and the city are not really interested in receiving any type of community input. Therefore the Brent community can't "just cut ECE." Any suggestions that it is possible are just a waste of keystrokes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's be clear. Cutting ECE is not an option (even if it should be). The ECE program is one of DCPS's success stories and to my knowledge one has never been cut (reduced yes, not cut).

The other thing we should be clear on is no amount of parents pushing this will cause any sort of change. People suggesting that parents should just cut the program have not dealt with DCPS in a real way. If you read this board, you know that DCPS and the city are not really interested in receiving any type of community input. Therefore the Brent community can't "just cut ECE." Any suggestions that it is possible are just a waste of keystrokes.

You keep saying this, yet offer no evidence to back it up. It might be true, but "never gonna happen" is not persuasive, absent actual support for your argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cutting PreS3 at Brent, just 28 or 30 spots per year, would create a lot more problems than it would solve. You know this if you're served on the PTA Board, or the LSAT or the SIT (I've served on two of these parent committees on and off for the past five years). It just sounds good.

Specifically what problems would it create? The problem of rich people cut off from their freebie? What makes Brent different from other schools that have chosen this route?

Which crowded DCPS schools have been able to do away with ECE? Contrary to popular belief, with one or two exceptions, the high-performing DCPS schools in Upper NW never offered PreS3.

There's a proposal to eliminate PK3 at Ross to alleviate crowding.

If DCPS were really concerned about special needs students having access to ECE they would make sure every school has it. Surely the special needs students with no IB PK have the same needs as Brent. SN PKers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cutting PreS3 at Brent, just 28 or 30 spots per year, would create a lot more problems than it would solve. You know this if you're served on the PTA Board, or the LSAT or the SIT (I've served on two of these parent committees on and off for the past five years). It just sounds good.

Specifically what problems would it create? The problem of rich people cut off from their freebie? What makes Brent different from other schools that have chosen this route?

Which crowded DCPS schools have been able to do away with ECE? Contrary to popular belief, with one or two exceptions, the high-performing DCPS schools in Upper NW never offered PreS3.

There's a proposal to eliminate PK3 at Ross to alleviate crowding.

If DCPS were really concerned about special needs students having access to ECE they would make sure every school has it. Surely the special needs students with no IB PK have the same needs as Brent. SN PKers.

The way to accomplish that would be to admit all SN PK3s and then fill out the class with general education students for an inclusion environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS definitely doesn't want Brent to cut PreS3, partly because in-boundary special ed kids get first dibs on entry to ECE programs. DCPS doesn't want these kids to develop more expensive-to-address academic/developmental problems for lack of access to high quality ECE.

Brent can't expect to convince DCPS to pony up for a massive renovation (either total gut job or raze the building and start over on the foundation) that will cost tens of millions of dollars if they're pushing for changes system leaders are hostile to. That's just not how renovation budgets are secured in DCPS.

This is not a real problem. IB 3 year old early stages kids could just get spots at any of the other DCPS PK3s surrounding the Brent neighborhood. All of those schools hold pk3 spots for early stages kids.

However, it’s stupid to cut pk3 when you could reduce or eliminate overcrowding by simply not admitting OOB kids.

Signed,
Don’t have a dog in this fight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP can talk to the LSAT all she wants without the LSAT being able to fix the crowding. Brent is out of real estate and in the possession of a 10 million budget to build a six-classroom addition the school can't spend, because DCPS no longer renovates piecemeal. Ditching PS3 would make little difference - ECE classes are far too small to serve as regular classes. The principal is hardly allowing any OOB kids to enroll - its a myth that a bunch of OOB siblings are coming in. THere were only 3 in 1st grade this year. The issue is that too many IB kids are coming into the lower grades for class sizes to stay small and there's really no room on campus for more classroom trailers. Only DCPS can fix the problem by adding classroom space.

Take out the PK3 and then you can do some remodeling to get the room sizes you need.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/aaron2446#!/vizhome/MSDCSeatsandWaitlistOfferData/MSDCPublicDisplay

Who is getting all the waitlist offers displayed on this site? IB kids would not be waitlisted in K and above, so is has to be OOB.

OOB siblings and military kids got those waitlist offers.

Seems like a vast quantity of offers, though:

K 28
1st 8
2nd 22
3rd 20
4th 16
5th 21

Aren't these just offers made? It doesn't mean they accepted 28 OOB kinders, just that #28 got a call. They could have accepted only one according to this data, correct? How do we find the real number of OOB students? And do they count students who got in IB but moved OOB as IB or OOB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP can talk to the LSAT all she wants without the LSAT being able to fix the crowding. Brent is out of real estate and in the possession of a 10 million budget to build a six-classroom addition the school can't spend, because DCPS no longer renovates piecemeal. Ditching PS3 would make little difference - ECE classes are far too small to serve as regular classes. The principal is hardly allowing any OOB kids to enroll - its a myth that a bunch of OOB siblings are coming in. THere were only 3 in 1st grade this year. The issue is that too many IB kids are coming into the lower grades for class sizes to stay small and there's really no room on campus for more classroom trailers. Only DCPS can fix the problem by adding classroom space.

Take out the PK3 and then you can do some remodeling to get the room sizes you need.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/aaron2446#!/vizhome/MSDCSeatsandWaitlistOfferData/MSDCPublicDisplay

Who is getting all the waitlist offers displayed on this site? IB kids would not be waitlisted in K and above, so is has to be OOB.

OOB siblings and military kids got those waitlist offers.

Seems like a vast quantity of offers, though:

K 28
1st 8
2nd 22
3rd 20
4th 16
5th 21

Aren't these just offers made? It doesn't mean they accepted 28 OOB kinders, just that #28 got a call. They could have accepted only one according to this data, correct? How do we find the real number of OOB students? And do they count students who got in IB but moved OOB as IB or OOB?

I just have a hard time seeing 28 people decline. A lot of the people getting offers have a sibling at the school. And they all put it on their lists because they might want to go there.

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Brent+Elementary+School This says 68% in-boundary. But only 6% economically disadvantaged. So a lot of the OOB kids are IB for Watkins or similar.

[Anonymous]

Dumbest thread ever.

Brent is more than 80% in-boundary this year - DCPS profile pages are two years out of date.

If you want PreS3 cut at Brent and to eliminate OOB admissions, start attending LSAT meetings to lobby. Go to Principal L's coffee hours to lobby. Attend DCPS hearings to lobby in the Wilson building.

You won't get anywhere, but at least you will have put your money where your mouth is.