New US News rankings are out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown and Cal tied? That's absurd.

30% of Cal students are low income (Pell Grant), just 12% of Georgetown students are low income. When USNWS changed the methodology to account for outcomes for low-income students, it was inevitable that schools like UCLA (36%) and Cal (30%) would benefit and schools like Georgetown (12%) and Wash U. (10%) would suffer.

The real eye opener is that Georgetown, a Jesuit University, ranks so poorly in supporting low-income students.


https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/nati...rsity-among-top-ranked-schools

It is difficult to compare taxpayer-supported institutions with private ones. Is it any surprise that there are more poor students at public universities?

USC is a private institution and ranks third for Pell grants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These rankings are a joke. Illinois ranked above Wisconsin? All the smart Chicago kids would rather go to Madison than Urbana Champaign.

but that is a measure of popularity, not the quality of the school.

Wisconsin is a much higher quality school. Everyone but UWNWR thinks so.

U of I's SAT scores are higher than Wisconsin's. Madison is a more lively town as state capital and it's closer to the northwest suburbs of Chicago than Urbana-Champaign which is a college town in the middle of nowhere. (Plus a lot of those suburban Chicago kids who say they want to go to UW didn't get into UofI and won't admit it and have parents who can afford the out of state tuition--they'd rather go to a flagship school of another state than one of the "directional" state schools -- this happens with University of Iowa too which is also just a couple hour train ride away from Chicago.

Good points, but let’s not pretend that Illinois is an Ivy League school and that Wisconsin is a safety. Illinois is ranked only 3 spots above Wisconsin (which, despite the rankings, has a better national brand and reputation). I highly doubt that there are a critical mass of Chicago kids who couldn’t get into their state university, but who could get into Wisconsin from out of state. There may be some, but don’t assume that Illinois is so superior that the kids who end up at Wisconsin are mostly those who were rejected from Illinois. Wisconsin is attractive in its own right to many Chicago students.

^^^
Also, last year Wisconsin and Illinois were tied, and I believe the previous year, Wisconsin may have been ranked a little higher. So let’s not portray Wisconsin as the safety school to Illinois. For Illinois instate students, it is probably much more difficult to get into Wisconsin than Illinois. That is not going to change due to minor variations in the rankings from year to year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These rankings are a joke. Illinois ranked above Wisconsin? All the smart Chicago kids would rather go to Madison than Urbana Champaign.

but that is a measure of popularity, not the quality of the school.

Wisconsin is a much higher quality school. Everyone but UWNWR thinks so.

U of I's SAT scores are higher than Wisconsin's. Madison is a more lively town as state capital and it's closer to the northwest suburbs of Chicago than Urbana-Champaign which is a college town in the middle of nowhere. (Plus a lot of those suburban Chicago kids who say they want to go to UW didn't get into UofI and won't admit it and have parents who can afford the out of state tuition--they'd rather go to a flagship school of another state than one of the "directional" state schools -- this happens with University of Iowa too which is also just a couple hour train ride away from Chicago.

Good points, but let’s not pretend that Illinois is an Ivy League school and that Wisconsin is a safety. Illinois is ranked only 3 spots above Wisconsin (which, despite the rankings, has a better national brand and reputation). I highly doubt that there are a critical mass of Chicago kids who couldn’t get into their state university, but who could get into Wisconsin from out of state. There may be some, but don’t assume that Illinois is so superior that the kids who end up at Wisconsin are mostly those who were rejected from Illinois. Wisconsin is attractive in its own right to many Chicago students.

I don't disagree. They are not that dissimilar--but to opt to pay more for out of state for a slightly "worse" state school usually means a) you want the livelier city and your family has enough money not to mind higher costs, or b)you didn't get into your own state flagship. There's not a lot of undergrad programs that UW would have a strong particular pull (grad programs--sure). UW's undergrad admissions are surprisingly not that selective given its overall reputation. I also wonder about the impact of state funding issues on UW system and its impact on its appeal (though if you're comparing Illinois they are both equally bad right now!)

[Anonymous]

Aspects of the top US News Top 25 ranking don’t pass the smell test IMHO.

Does anybody really think University of Chicago is better than Stanford? I think US News is miffed at Stanford for refusing to release acceptance data. Resistance is futile!

Johns Hopkins and Northwestern ahead of Cal Tech? In what world?

Wash U, Georgetown and Emory ahead of Carnegie Mellon? What am I missing here.

The WSJ/THE rankings are based more on academics and less on social mobility – this is their Top 30 (which includes top SLACs):


1 Harvard University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Yale University
4 Columbia University
5 California Institute of Technology
6 Stanford University
7 Brown University
7 Duke University
9 Princeton University
10 University of Pennsylvania
11 Cornell University
12 Dartmouth College
13 Northwestern University
14 University of Chicago
14 Rice University
16 Carnegie Mellon University
17 University of Southern California
18 Washington University in St Louis
19 Vanderbilt University
20 Emory University
21 Johns Hopkins University
22 Amherst College
23 Williams College
24 Pomona College
25 University of California, Los Angeles
26 University of Notre Dame
27 New York University
28 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
29 Wellesley College
30 Georgetown University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown and Cal tied? That's absurd.

30% of Cal students are low income (Pell Grant), just 12% of Georgetown students are low income. When USNWS changed the methodology to account for outcomes for low-income students, it was inevitable that schools like UCLA (36%) and Cal (30%) would benefit and schools like Georgetown (12%) and Wash U. (10%) would suffer.

The real eye opener is that Georgetown, a Jesuit University, ranks so poorly in supporting low-income students.


https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/nati...rsity-among-top-ranked-schools

You would hardly know that Georgetown was Jesuit based on the the fact that it’s mostly a haven for rich kids that didn’t get into the Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These rankings are a joke. Illinois ranked above Wisconsin? All the smart Chicago kids would rather go to Madison than Urbana Champaign.

No.
Michigan over U of I, sure. But there aren't a bunch of kids paying out of state tuition at Wisconsin if they get into Urbana Champaign.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aspects of the top US News Top 25 ranking don’t pass the smell test IMHO.

Does anybody really think University of Chicago is better than Stanford? I think US News is miffed at Stanford for refusing to release acceptance data. Resistance is futile!

Johns Hopkins and Northwestern ahead of Cal Tech? In what world?

Wash U, Georgetown and Emory ahead of Carnegie Mellon? What am I missing here.

The WSJ/THE rankings are based more on academics and less on social mobility – this is their Top 30 (which includes top SLACs):


1 Harvard University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Yale University
4 Columbia University
5 California Institute of Technology
6 Stanford University
7 Brown University
7 Duke University
9 Princeton University
10 University of Pennsylvania
11 Cornell University
12 Dartmouth College
13 Northwestern University
14 University of Chicago
14 Rice University
16 Carnegie Mellon University
17 University of Southern California
18 Washington University in St Louis
19 Vanderbilt University
20 Emory University
21 Johns Hopkins University
22 Amherst College
23 Williams College
24 Pomona College
25 University of California, Los Angeles
26 University of Notre Dame
27 New York University
28 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
29 Wellesley College
30 Georgetown University

Sorry, but the WSJ rankings are shallow compared to the USNews rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown and Cal tied? That's absurd.

30% of Cal students are low income (Pell Grant), just 12% of Georgetown students are low income. When USNWS changed the methodology to account for outcomes for low-income students, it was inevitable that schools like UCLA (36%) and Cal (30%) would benefit and schools like Georgetown (12%) and Wash U. (10%) would suffer.

The real eye opener is that Georgetown, a Jesuit University, ranks so poorly in supporting low-income students.


https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/nati...rsity-among-top-ranked-schools

You would hardly know that Georgetown was Jesuit based on the the fact that it’s mostly a haven for rich kids that didn’t get into the Ivies.

Georgetown has changed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These rankings are a joke. Illinois ranked above Wisconsin? All the smart Chicago kids would rather go to Madison than Urbana Champaign.

No.
Michigan over U of I, sure. But there aren't a bunch of kids paying out of state tuition at Wisconsin if they get into Urbana Champaign.

Yeah, whatever. Who wouldn’t spend four years in a cow town over Madison?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These rankings are a joke. Illinois ranked above Wisconsin? All the smart Chicago kids would rather go to Madison than Urbana Champaign.

No.
Michigan over U of I, sure. But there aren't a bunch of kids paying out of state tuition at Wisconsin if they get into Urbana Champaign.

Yeah, whatever. Who wouldn’t spend four years in a cow town over Madison?

Urbana Champaign is not a cow town compared to Madison. It's closer to being a soybean town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Midwestern LACs are interesting. Carleton and Grinnell far ahead of the pack, as they should be.

So sayeth the Grinnell grad...

It's been this way for 40 years, with the exception of Oberlin falling from grace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These rankings are a joke. Illinois ranked above Wisconsin? All the smart Chicago kids would rather go to Madison than Urbana Champaign.

No.
Michigan over U of I, sure. But there aren't a bunch of kids paying out of state tuition at Wisconsin if they get into Urbana Champaign.

Yeah, whatever. Who wouldn’t spend four years in a cow town over Madison?

If you're out of state, UW Madison's total cost of attendance is around 50k whereas in-state U of I is around 31k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aspects of the top US News Top 25 ranking don’t pass the smell test IMHO.

Does anybody really think University of Chicago is better than Stanford? I think US News is miffed at Stanford for refusing to release acceptance data. Resistance is futile!

Johns Hopkins and Northwestern ahead of Cal Tech? In what world?

Wash U, Georgetown and Emory ahead of Carnegie Mellon? What am I missing here.

The WSJ/THE rankings are based more on academics and less on social mobility – this is their Top 30 (which includes top SLACs):


1 Harvard University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Yale University
4 Columbia University
5 California Institute of Technology
6 Stanford University
7 Brown University
7 Duke University
9 Princeton University
10 University of Pennsylvania
11 Cornell University
12 Dartmouth College
13 Northwestern University
14 University of Chicago
14 Rice University
16 Carnegie Mellon University
17 University of Southern California
18 Washington University in St Louis
19 Vanderbilt University
20 Emory University
21 Johns Hopkins University
22 Amherst College
23 Williams College
24 Pomona College
25 University of California, Los Angeles
26 University of Notre Dame
27 New York University
28 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
29 Wellesley College
30 Georgetown University

Right. Brown is better than Princeton and USC is better than JHU. Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Come on people. USNews's change in ranking metrics is terrible need for middle class and upper middle class families who are already getting shafted by the current financial aid evaluation process at these colleges. With the outsized influence this ranking has in driving college behavior, colleges will now move towards filling more seats with Pell Grant recipients and compensate for that budget impact by recruiting more full pay students at the other end. That is really bad news for Average unhooked middle class families. Also now the one thing that have middle class families some edge in merit aid, namely scores and ranks is also being de-emphasized. This will move more dollars from merit to need based aid which is again terrible news for donut hole families

Boo hoo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These rankings are a joke. Illinois ranked above Wisconsin? All the smart Chicago kids would rather go to Madison than Urbana Champaign.

No.
Michigan over U of I, sure. But there aren't a bunch of kids paying out of state tuition at Wisconsin if they get into Urbana Champaign.

Yeah, whatever. Who wouldn’t spend four years in a cow town over Madison?

If you're out of state, UW Madison's total cost of attendance is around 50k whereas in-state U of I is around 31k.

Well maybe based on cost alone, Illinois would be preferable.