Extended School Year Approved for 2 MoCo Elementary Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not talking about heavy academics. I'm talking about doing things like going to the grocery store and pointing out that apples are red and round and cucumbers are long and green. Pointing out environmental print--"look, it's a big M for McDonald's!" etc. All of that is considered rich language from 0-5. Getting kids used to holding a crayon or pencil by having them color on blank paper. The point is that SOMEBODY has to teach the foundation whether it's the parents or it's outsourced. Kids who have not been taught the foundation by the time they start school are at a disadvantage and continue to be. 20 extra days of school per year isn't going to fix that. We already have the data that shows that retaining kids only gives them a fleeting additional boost and then it levels out quickly and that's an entire year of extra schooling. Sure, we can see what happens and what the data shows but until we get to the root of the problem not much will change.

30 extra days of school. 180 days vs. 210 days.

And we already have the data that show that the effect of the summer slide is particularly big for disadvantaged kids.

What do you suggest doing about "the root of the problem", as you describe it?

[Anonymous]

All schools have already started back in Georgia, where I am from, and the longer school year seems to be helping performance there. Parts of MoCo have some of the same issues, so it stands to reason a longer school year would be helpful for them as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All schools have already started back in Georgia, where I am from, and the longer school year seems to be helping performance there. Parts of MoCo have some of the same issues, so it stands to reason a longer school year would be helpful for them as well.

And they end before Memorial Day and have more and longer breaks than MCPS does. Here's Atlanta Public Schools calendar:

Breaking: Another Georgia Tech VP leaving in wake of investigations



Fourth graders at a book fair at their school media center are fascinated by a science book.
Atlanta Public Schools announce 2018-2019 school calendar
May 25, 2018
By Alaa Elassar, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
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Besides adding 30 minutes to students’ school days from Jan. 29 to March 30 to make up for days missed as a result of weather, Atlanta Public Schools have also been creating the 2018-2019 school calendar.

This year’s calendar includes six reserved days for teacher planning days, and another five days for teacher professional learning.

These are some of the Atlanta Public Schools dates parents and students should keep in mind:

The first day of school will be Aug. 1.
Fall break will be Oct. 10-12.
Thanksgiving break will be Nov. 19-23.
Semester break will begin Dec. 24 and students return to school on Jan. 7.
Winter break will be Feb. 20-22.
Spring break will be April 1-5.
The last day of school will be May 24.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/atlanta-public-schools-announce-2018-2019-school-calendar/33tFGsVpHk1skScnsUaFcI/?icmp=np_inform_variation-test

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All schools have already started back in Georgia, where I am from, and the longer school year seems to be helping performance there. Parts of MoCo have some of the same issues, so it stands to reason a longer school year would be helpful for them as well.

And they end before Memorial Day and have more and longer breaks than MCPS does. Here's Atlanta Public Schools calendar:

Breaking: Another Georgia Tech VP leaving in wake of investigations



Fourth graders at a book fair at their school media center are fascinated by a science book.
Atlanta Public Schools announce 2018-2019 school calendar
May 25, 2018
By Alaa Elassar, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Share on FacebookShare on Twitter...More
Besides adding 30 minutes to students’ school days from Jan. 29 to March 30 to make up for days missed as a result of weather, Atlanta Public Schools have also been creating the 2018-2019 school calendar.

This year’s calendar includes six reserved days for teacher planning days, and another five days for teacher professional learning.

These are some of the Atlanta Public Schools dates parents and students should keep in mind:

The first day of school will be Aug. 1.
Fall break will be Oct. 10-12.
Thanksgiving break will be Nov. 19-23.
Semester break will begin Dec. 24 and students return to school on Jan. 7.
Winter break will be Feb. 20-22.
Spring break will be April 1-5.
The last day of school will be May 24.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/atlanta-public-schools-announce-2018-2019-school-calendar/33tFGsVpHk1skScnsUaFcI/?icmp=np_inform_variation-test

MCPS parents would never be ok with that schedule.

[Anonymous]

A subset of MCPS parents would complain no matter what schedule is adopted. But among the parents I know (neither rich nor poor), I think an extended day would be welcome. Most of us would welcome not having to shell out for extra camp weeks plus having our kids learn more and I would imagine, time for an actual spring break instead of the pathetic half week we have off this year.

[Anonymous]

Here are the issues I have observed from the one year-round school in APS) it was a pilot program, but never expanded to other schools and has not shown results in the short-term as test s ore have actually gone down; as far as I know APS has not collected any longitudinal data to show a long-term benefit for the students as they move through secondary schools).

MC and UMC families opted out. It's a pain to manage two different calendars, so unless all the other schools in MoCo move to this calendar, people with agency will leave. It will also keep new MC and UMC families from moving into the boundaries with this calendar unless their kids are already enrolled in a private or magnet school with a traditional calendar.

It is more challenging to attract teachers. You've limited your potential pool of candidates to those who don't have children of school age.

MC and UMC families want summers, maybe not all 12 weeks, but more than 4. They would rather have their kids doing at least a few camps with the kind of enrichment activities that public schools rarely provide, and summer activities like swim and tennis. They don't want their kids doing test prep and work sheets for an extra two months out of the year, they might be okay with RSM or Kumon, but not two extra months basic stuff. They will opt out of the calendar, especially if the calendar is just implemented in a high poverty neighborhood school. Make it a lottery school, and maybe it has legs.

Low information families will accidentally opt out of the calendar. They won't realize school has been in session when they show up in September. This has happened every year for almost two decades at the one year-round school in APS. Or, they go visit their families for months at a time in another country and disregard the concept of year-round school to do that, even when their children are the intended targets of the extra time in school.

I don't think the answer is to do nothing, rather target the resources better. Instead of giving poor kids a different calendar, try to recreate what families with better resources and understanding of education routinely provide. That means free preschool at age 3. Provide free parenting classes and affinity/support groups for their parents. Obviously not all can or will avail themselves of this resource, but there are many parents who want the best for their kids but have no idea how to provide it because nobody ever taught them. Explicitly teach parents that they are their children's first and most important teacher. Then show them, explicitly, how to do it. Offer full-day enrichments camps and provide meals and bus service for income-qualified students during the summer. And do everything possible to desegregate schools by SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A subset of MCPS parents would complain no matter what schedule is adopted. But among the parents I know (neither rich nor poor), I think an extended day would be welcome. Most of us would welcome not having to shell out for extra camp weeks plus having our kids learn more and I would imagine, time for an actual spring break instead of the pathetic half week we have off this year.

So you want extended day and extended school year so you don't have to deal with childcare, but time off when it suits you to go on vacation? Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A subset of MCPS parents would complain no matter what schedule is adopted. But among the parents I know (neither rich nor poor), I think an extended day would be welcome. Most of us would welcome not having to shell out for extra camp weeks plus having our kids learn more and I would imagine, time for an actual spring break instead of the pathetic half week we have off this year.

I'm neither rich nor poor, and would fight tooth and nail against an extended day if it were more of the same. Unless that extended day included instrumental music, art, and everything else that I have to build into the 4:30 to 6:00 pm hours because my child's school day includes way too much Chromebook and PARCC review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A subset of MCPS parents would complain no matter what schedule is adopted. But among the parents I know (neither rich nor poor), I think an extended day would be welcome. Most of us would welcome not having to shell out for extra camp weeks plus having our kids learn more and I would imagine, time for an actual spring break instead of the pathetic half week we have off this year.

I'm neither rich nor poor, and would fight tooth and nail against an extended day if it were more of the same. Unless that extended day included instrumental music, art, and everything else that I have to build into the 4:30 to 6:00 pm hours because my child's school day includes way too much Chromebook and PARCC review.

It’s not extended day-it’s an extended year (ie more weeks of school not a longer day.(

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A subset of MCPS parents would complain no matter what schedule is adopted. But among the parents I know (neither rich nor poor), I think an extended day would be welcome. Most of us would welcome not having to shell out for extra camp weeks plus having our kids learn more and I would imagine, time for an actual spring break instead of the pathetic half week we have off this year.

So you want extended day and extended school year so you don't have to deal with childcare, but time off when it suits you to go on vacation? Got it.

I think many parents and kids appreciate having vacation time throughout the year to spend time as a family and recharge their battery. I know a lot of people who are disappointed in the lack of a spring break this year. But I don’t know anyone, apart from people who work at schools who can take 12 weeks off straight. That’s a vestige of an agricultural society gone by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A subset of MCPS parents would complain no matter what schedule is adopted. But among the parents I know (neither rich nor poor), I think an extended day would be welcome. Most of us would welcome not having to shell out for extra camp weeks plus having our kids learn more and I would imagine, time for an actual spring break instead of the pathetic half week we have off this year.

So you want extended day and extended school year so you don't have to deal with childcare, but time off when it suits you to go on vacation? Got it.

I think many parents and kids appreciate having vacation time throughout the year to spend time as a family and recharge their battery. I know a lot of people who are disappointed in the lack of a spring break this year. But I don’t know anyone, apart from people who work at schools who can take 12 weeks off straight. That’s a vestige of an agricultural society gone by.

Actually it's a vestige of malaria, fetid odors, and lack of air conditioning.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/debunking-myth-summer-vacation

For agriculture, planting is in the spring, harvest is in the fall, so you go to school during the summer and winter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A subset of MCPS parents would complain no matter what schedule is adopted. But among the parents I know (neither rich nor poor), I think an extended day would be welcome. Most of us would welcome not having to shell out for extra camp weeks plus having our kids learn more and I would imagine, time for an actual spring break instead of the pathetic half week we have off this year.

I'm neither rich nor poor, and would fight tooth and nail against an extended day if it were more of the same. Unless that extended day included instrumental music, art, and everything else that I have to build into the 4:30 to 6:00 pm hours because my child's school day includes way too much Chromebook and PARCC review.

At least your kid got PARCC review. Mine got none. But, he did learn how to play games on the chrome books... lots of games from what he showed me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I did a cursory examination of the article on the .org site (remember that orgs have their own slants) and found no reference to longitudinal studies following the kids through middle and high school.

great that there are results - However, how much would it take to replicate these structures at every low-performing middle and high school? probably lots and lots and lots of money that would increase taxes and make parents very angry

"We shouldn't do it at a few schools because we can't do it at all schools because it would cost more money than people are willing to pay" is not a good argument against doing it, in my opinion.

I've been in education for longer than many of you have been around. This is NOT the way to close the gap.

never has been, never will be

Superficial steps don't create long-lasting results.

This is an anonymous forum. You have no idea who any of us are. If you want to post the results of similar programs that have led to your dismissal of these programs, please do so. But otherwise all you’ve got is an opinion.

+1 It’s costly to expand the school year. MCPS is collecting info on the results of the pilot. That’s the way to answer the question about whether a longer school year is worthwhile.

What kind of meaningful data is MCPS really going to collect. It will take years, to determine if this program is worth the money. Low income families tend to be very transient. How many students are they going to be able to track through high school let alone through elementary school. There has only been one longitudinal study to see if students in state funded pre - k programs had better educational outcomes, and this study found no statistically significant improvement in academic achievements.

I am okay with extending the school year, but would prefer to be realistic. We are extending the school year to improve nutrition, provide enrichment and quality childcare for children, and help poor families with their summer childcare budgets.

[Anonymous]

Happy that arcola gets this opportunity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What kind of meaningful data is MCPS really going to collect. It will take years, to determine if this program is worth the money. Low income families tend to be very transient. How many students are they going to be able to track through high school let alone through elementary school. There has only been one longitudinal study to see if students in state funded pre - k programs had better educational outcomes, and this study found no statistically significant improvement in academic achievements.

I am okay with extending the school year, but would prefer to be realistic. We are extending the school year to improve nutrition, provide enrichment and quality childcare for children, and help poor families with their summer childcare budgets.

There's always an argument against trying anything, isn't there? We shouldn't do Strategy X to address Problem Y, because Strategy X doesn't, all by itself, completely solve Problem Y...

As states have upgraded their commitment to pre?K education over the past two decades, questions have arisen. Critics argue that program effects are likely to fade out or disappear over time, while supporters contend that program effects are likely to persist under certain conditions. Using data from Tulsa Public Schools, three neighboring school districts, and the state of Oklahoma, and propensity score weighting, we estimate the effects of Tulsa's universal, school?based pre?K program on multiple measures of academic progress for middle school students. We find enduring effects on math achievement test scores, enrollment in honors courses, and grade retention for students as a whole, and similar effects for certain subgroups. We conclude that some positive effects of a high?quality pre?K program are discernible as late as middle school.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pam.22023

Interview with researcher here: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/12/12/568378251/does-preschool-pay-off-tulsa-says-yes?mc_cid=f7ba755b2e&mc_eid=3037f8c567