Columbia or Harvey Mudd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would take any of the 5C before Columbia. Quality of life to undergrads is important. Go to Columbia for grad school.

And the quality of life really sucks in dreary old Manhattan?

seriously
the clueless suburban crowd takes the cake
only on DCUM is this even a question.... there is a reason HM is offering a scholarship whereas columbia does not - if there were no cost differential no sane person would choose mudd.

I bet the poster is 1% HHI. S/he is also clueless about Mudd.

Yes, and won't ever realize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would take any of the 5C before Columbia. Quality of life to undergrads is important. Go to Columbia for grad school.

Yeah, 18-22 yos would find it terrible to live in NYC. Just awful. There's nothing to do, no culture at all, completely isolating - what a miserable way to spend 4 years.

The problem is that Manhattan housing is even more expensive than it used to be, and the retail crash is emptying the storefronts out.

There are pockets of non-trust-fund college-kid life in Brooklyn and Queens, and some Google tech life around the High Line, but, in general, New York is probably peaking and heading to a severe a crash. This might be a good time to get in a position to buy an apartment when the market crashes, but it's not a great time to go there to have a fun time at 18.

You need to have a trust fund to have fun in Manhattan? WTF?

If the kid couldn't figure out how to have fun in Manhattan at age 18, even lacking a trust fund, she wouldn't be smart enough to get into Columbia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would take any of the 5C before Columbia. Quality of life to undergrads is important. Go to Columbia for grad school.

Yeah, 18-22 yos would find it terrible to live in NYC. Just awful. There's nothing to do, no culture at all, completely isolating - what a miserable way to spend 4 years.

Yeah, everything your kids touch in NY will be like touching gold, $4 coke...

It was $5.50 for a bottle of soda when we were there last time.

what are you prattling about?

[Anonymous]

I think she is not feeling the “vibe” at Columbia because it isn’t really a typical college. People that attend aren’t looking for school spirit, making a ton of friends or being heavily involved in clubs/activities. They are kids who enjoy the city and want a city life. If your daughter isn’t feeling that, I think she will be disappointed.

Why not try Mudd with scholarship first? I am not sure what the issue is here. She likes the school more, it is free, and plenty of people here said you can take classes at all the other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would take any of the 5C before Columbia. Quality of life to undergrads is important. Go to Columbia for grad school.

Yeah, 18-22 yos would find it terrible to live in NYC. Just awful. There's nothing to do, no culture at all, completely isolating - what a miserable way to spend 4 years.

Yeah, everything your kids touch in NY will be like touching gold, $4 coke...

It was $5.50 for a bottle of soda when we were there last time.

what are you prattling about?

Full pay at Manhattan, NY v. Full ride in beautiful sunny Southern Cali. Full pay is for 1% HHI who thinks people go to a top college in beautiful sunny Southern Cali only because of the lure of merit aid.

[Anonymous]

For my kid, I would be super excited about Harvey Mudd! Great options for your DC.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]You need to have a trust fund to have fun in Manhattan? WTF?

If the kid couldn't figure out how to have fun in Manhattan at age 18, even lacking a trust fund, she wouldn't be smart enough to get into Columbia.[/quote]

Of course, I'm exaggerating. Manhattan still has nice museums, libraries and coffee shops.

For parents who have figured out preschool and school, it's a wonderful place to have a small child. The playgrounds and activities for small children.

But the whole downtown scene is gone. The music scene and the comedy scene are pretty much dead. The Lower East Side is nice now, but most of the main part of Greenwich Village, where NYU is, looks as if the Pied Piper came and lured the shopkeepers away. But the landlords are locked into arrangements that keep them from lowering the rents enough to clear the market, so the empty storefronts stay empty or get filled with nail salons. There's no way for young people to go in and start something interesting.

It's fine, in a lot of ways. It's safe. The coffee is good. But I don't think it's any better for an 18-year-old than, say, Capitol Hill, or Chicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics in STEM will know Harvey Mudd well. It sounds like some PPs are reigniting the debate DCUM so often seems to fall into re. name recognition among lay people and other factors pretty distant from the academic environment.

That said, I agree there are pros and cons to both. You've made a good list, OP. What is your DC thinking?

We can finance Columbia. Daughter definitely prefers the vibe at Mudd, but is afraid about what could happen if she decides she doesn't want to do STEM. All her friends/family are puzzling over Mudd as well, so while she knows Mudd has good tech outcomes, what happens if she didn't want to do that?

Mudd seems like a riskier option, basically.

Well that's easy - Pomona, Scripps, Pitzer, Claremont. Take classes or enroll there. One of my friend's DDs who could not get into Clarement enrolled at Scripps at takes classes on the other campuses.

You can cross register within the 5c. But OP's concern is what happens if the student doesn't want a STEM major? You still need a major at Harvey?

why you guys can't google is beyond me. YES - big political science, etc, opportunities and major at Mudd AND at the other colleges. Or she can just apply to one of the others for a transfer to that college if she chooses. https://www.hmc.edu/hsa/

Because it's OP's child, s/he needs to verify info through Mudd. I wouldn't make college decision by just by googling. Googled info should be verified through the college.

No, my complaint is with the PP who just dashes off "but op's concern is what happens if the student doesn't want a STEM major" You still need a major at Harvey" without bothering to even google the most basic fact. Anyone who knows anything about the Claremont Colleges knows that you can major in whatever you want in each college, so that if STEM doesn't work out, they can still be a political science major at Mudd or apply to transfer to one of the other colleges there. OR, just take political science courses in the other colleges. That's the beauty of the Claremont colleges. Why bother to post something so stupid without checking first? And then PP's response is "Because it's OP's child s/he needs to very info through Mudd". Oh, that's very helpful. Of course they should. My initial point was why make a stupid observation which either the reader should have known had they read all the posts or take three seconds to google. Or not post at all if you are just a stupid person. And then don't try to make it justifiable by putting the blame on the OP parent. I think some people post here just because it somehow makes them feel good about themselves - as if they can contribute or are knowledgeable - but most aren't and don't add anything to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

We looked seriously at Mudd including talking to students at Mudd and the other Claremonts. The issue about cross registration is that the number of students from another college are capped and some classes, particularly upper class, are closed. So although in theory there's flexibility, in practice, it may be tough to change out of STEM as a major. For electives for consortium works really well. My feeling is that if OP's kid loves CS, it's a great school. I would say commit 100% and go in there determined to make it work. On the other hand, Columbia doesn't make it easy to switch colleges either but it's easier so it's a safer option. Women in CS are highly desired even if she ends up in a minor or just takes a significant # of classes. She'll have unbelievable opportunities no matter where she goes to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pros of Columbia:
- Ivy league school with worldwide recognition
- Major research university with top of the line professors and opportunities
- Endless range of events featuring the brightest minds
- In the heart of NYC, tons of internships available and easy to participate in the cultural richness of the city
- Strongly emphasizes the liberal arts with a global focus
- More balanced experience; can major in something else if one decides not to do STEM

Cons:
- Didn't connect as well with the student body
- Not undergraduate focused; couldn't feel a great sense of community among students or professors
- Stressful culture- administrators and support networks aren't very good. No hand holding (independence can be a pro too)
- Expensive (full cost)

Pros of Harvey Mudd:
- Received full tuition merit aid scholarship
- Highly distinctive computer science program and major pipeline into Silicon Valley
- #1 for return on investment based on starting salaries of grads
- Professors genuinely seem to care for students & the community is close-knit; inclusive vibe for women
- Warm weather, better food and dorms, seems to have a better quality of life/happier students
- Nearby Claremont Colleges expand opportunities, course options, friends, and social life so it isn't too small

Cons:
- Ugly campus
- Ehh college town, LA is not too accessible. Not a life in the city (can be a pro to be in a peaceful college town, too)
- Rigid required STEM and humanities core; less flexibility to explore than at Columbia. Only offers STEM majors
- Poor name brand on the east coast and as a whole compared to Columbia
- Grade deflation, very intense workload

When I read the thread's title, I thought it was a joke.

So there's a college somewhere called Harvey Mudd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pros of Columbia:
- Ivy league school with worldwide recognition
- Major research university with top of the line professors and opportunities
- Endless range of events featuring the brightest minds
- In the heart of NYC, tons of internships available and easy to participate in the cultural richness of the city
- Strongly emphasizes the liberal arts with a global focus
- More balanced experience; can major in something else if one decides not to do STEM

Cons:
- Didn't connect as well with the student body
- Not undergraduate focused; couldn't feel a great sense of community among students or professors
- Stressful culture- administrators and support networks aren't very good. No hand holding (independence can be a pro too)
- Expensive (full cost)

Pros of Harvey Mudd:
- Received full tuition merit aid scholarship
- Highly distinctive computer science program and major pipeline into Silicon Valley
- #1 for return on investment based on starting salaries of grads
- Professors genuinely seem to care for students & the community is close-knit; inclusive vibe for women
- Warm weather, better food and dorms, seems to have a better quality of life/happier students
- Nearby Claremont Colleges expand opportunities, course options, friends, and social life so it isn't too small

Cons:
- Ugly campus
- Ehh college town, LA is not too accessible. Not a life in the city (can be a pro to be in a peaceful college town, too)
- Rigid required STEM and humanities core; less flexibility to explore than at Columbia. Only offers STEM majors
- Poor name brand on the east coast and as a whole compared to Columbia
- Grade deflation, very intense workload

When I read the thread's title, I thought it was a joke.

So there's a college somewhere called Harvey Mudd?

Jokes on you. It's like saying you haven't heard of Harvard. Where you've been? Harvey Mudd is for people in the know. It's amazing how people boast their ignorance and don't even know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pros of Columbia:
- Ivy league school with worldwide recognition
- Major research university with top of the line professors and opportunities
- Endless range of events featuring the brightest minds
- In the heart of NYC, tons of internships available and easy to participate in the cultural richness of the city
- Strongly emphasizes the liberal arts with a global focus
- More balanced experience; can major in something else if one decides not to do STEM

Cons:
- Didn't connect as well with the student body
- Not undergraduate focused; couldn't feel a great sense of community among students or professors
- Stressful culture- administrators and support networks aren't very good. No hand holding (independence can be a pro too)
- Expensive (full cost)

Pros of Harvey Mudd:
- Received full tuition merit aid scholarship
- Highly distinctive computer science program and major pipeline into Silicon Valley
- #1 for return on investment based on starting salaries of grads
- Professors genuinely seem to care for students & the community is close-knit; inclusive vibe for women
- Warm weather, better food and dorms, seems to have a better quality of life/happier students
- Nearby Claremont Colleges expand opportunities, course options, friends, and social life so it isn't too small

Cons:
- Ugly campus
- Ehh college town, LA is not too accessible. Not a life in the city (can be a pro to be in a peaceful college town, too)
- Rigid required STEM and humanities core; less flexibility to explore than at Columbia. Only offers STEM majors
- Poor name brand on the east coast and as a whole compared to Columbia
- Grade deflation, very intense workload

When I read the thread's title, I thought it was a joke.

So there's a college somewhere called Harvey Mudd?

Jokes on you. It's like saying you haven't heard of Harvard. Where you've been? Harvey Mudd is for people in the know. It's amazing how people boast their ignorance and don't even know it.

Hi Mr. Mudd!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics in STEM will know Harvey Mudd well. It sounds like some PPs are reigniting the debate DCUM so often seems to fall into re. name recognition among lay people and other factors pretty distant from the academic environment.

That said, I agree there are pros and cons to both. You've made a good list, OP. What is your DC thinking?

We can finance Columbia. Daughter definitely prefers the vibe at Mudd, but is afraid about what could happen if she decides she doesn't want to do STEM. All her friends/family are puzzling over Mudd as well, so while she knows Mudd has good tech outcomes, what happens if she didn't want to do that?

Mudd seems like a riskier option, basically.

Well that's easy - Pomona, Scripps, Pitzer, Claremont. Take classes or enroll there. One of my friend's DDs who could not get into Clarement enrolled at Scripps at takes classes on the other campuses.

You can cross register within the 5c. But OP's concern is what happens if the student doesn't want a STEM major? You still need a major at Harvey?

why you guys can't google is beyond me. YES - big political science, etc, opportunities and major at Mudd AND at the other colleges. Or she can just apply to one of the others for a transfer to that college if she chooses. https://www.hmc.edu/hsa/

Because it's OP's child, s/he needs to verify info through Mudd. I wouldn't make college decision by just by googling. Googled info should be verified through the college.

No, my complaint is with the PP who just dashes off "but op's concern is what happens if the student doesn't want a STEM major" You still need a major at Harvey" without bothering to even google the most basic fact. Anyone who knows anything about the Claremont Colleges knows that you can major in whatever you want in each college, so that if STEM doesn't work out, they can still be a political science major at Mudd or apply to transfer to one of the other colleges there. OR, just take political science courses in the other colleges. That's the beauty of the Claremont colleges. Why bother to post something so stupid without checking first? And then PP's response is "Because it's OP's child s/he needs to very info through Mudd". Oh, that's very helpful. Of course they should. My initial point was why make a stupid observation which either the reader should have known had they read all the posts or take three seconds to google. Or not post at all if you are just a stupid person. And then don't try to make it justifiable by putting the blame on the OP parent. I think some people post here just because it somehow makes them feel good about themselves - as if they can contribute or are knowledgeable - but most aren't and don't add anything to the discussion.

It was based on basic knowledge that a college requires basic core courses, unless it's an open curriculum school. STEM schools can't be open curriculum if ABET accredited. There must be core engineering required courses. This is why engineering is so hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I read the thread's title, I thought it was a joke.

So there's a college somewhere called Harvey Mudd?

Yeah the graduates are laughing all the way to the bank. Highest starting salary of any college.

http://www.businessinsider.com/colleges-with-high-starting-salaries-2016-9#-31

1. Harvey Mudd College

Early career median pay: $78,500

Mid-career median pay: $131,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pros of Columbia:
- Ivy league school with worldwide recognition
- Major research university with top of the line professors and opportunities
- Endless range of events featuring the brightest minds
- In the heart of NYC, tons of internships available and easy to participate in the cultural richness of the city
- Strongly emphasizes the liberal arts with a global focus
- More balanced experience; can major in something else if one decides not to do STEM

Cons:
- Didn't connect as well with the student body
- Not undergraduate focused; couldn't feel a great sense of community among students or professors
- Stressful culture- administrators and support networks aren't very good. No hand holding (independence can be a pro too)
- Expensive (full cost)

Pros of Harvey Mudd:
- Received full tuition merit aid scholarship
- Highly distinctive computer science program and major pipeline into Silicon Valley
- #1 for return on investment based on starting salaries of grads
- Professors genuinely seem to care for students & the community is close-knit; inclusive vibe for women
- Warm weather, better food and dorms, seems to have a better quality of life/happier students
- Nearby Claremont Colleges expand opportunities, course options, friends, and social life so it isn't too small

Cons:
- Ugly campus
- Ehh college town, LA is not too accessible. Not a life in the city (can be a pro to be in a peaceful college town, too)
- Rigid required STEM and humanities core; less flexibility to explore than at Columbia. Only offers STEM majors
- Poor name brand on the east coast and as a whole compared to Columbia
- Grade deflation, very intense workload

When I read the thread's title, I thought it was a joke.

So there's a college somewhere called Harvey Mudd?

Jokes on you. It's like saying you haven't heard of Harvard. Where you've been? Harvey Mudd is for people in the know. It's amazing how people boast their ignorance and don't even know it.

nope it's not like saying you haven't heard of Harvard. in fact you say so much yourself - "mudd is for people in the know". but Harvard isn't... everyone everywhere has heard of it. as an immigrant from Europe i assure you there are no more than a few dozen people in my whole country who have heard of it. but pretty much everyone has heard of Harvard and most people have heard of Columbia as well.