APS Interesting Responses to Walk Zone Survey

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To the poster who thinks that Drew as a neighborhood school will have a lower FARMS rate, then Drew with Montessori- you should know that APS stated at the budget work session that when Montessori is removed from Drew, the Montessori program will no longer be Title I, because the FARMS students who make the school Title I are in the neighborhood program.

I don't actually have a problem with high FARMS schools, and I think the new principal is outstanding. But- if you think the school is going to improve in a Great Schools sense (which is really all based on test scores, which is based on socioeconomic status) then you are dead wrong.

I don't think I said it would have a LOWER fr/l rate. I just don't think it's going to be 80% like Carlin Springs, which, btw, has a GS score of 6. There are other north and south Arlingon schools that have 40-60% fr/l that are GS 5/6. And there are some with similar fr/l rate that have 3/4. I don't know what exactly the difference is, but I suspect strong leadership and buy-in from at least 20% UMC families who donate their time and money to the school helps. I don't see a scenario in which Drew does not have those two things.

GS ratings are kinda bogus anyway.consider that the farms rate for the graded program is probably at least 80 percent right now. The Montessori income guidelines aren't the same as farms. That's why the Montessori program won't be title 1 at Henry and aps has said so. Adding a bunch of apartments from arna valley isn't going to make the farms rate go down, and the SFH in Nauck are all already zoned to Drew

Right, but now they don't have guaranteed admission to Montessori or Immersion, so if they don't get a countywide lottery spot, they either have to move, go private, or enroll at Drew.

Exactly right. Move, go private or option out is basically what Douglas park SFH have been doing for years, instead of attending Randolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who thinks that Drew as a neighborhood school will have a lower FARMS rate, then Drew with Montessori- you should know that APS stated at the budget work session that when Montessori is removed from Drew, the Montessori program will no longer be Title I, because the FARMS students who make the school Title I are in the neighborhood program.

I don't actually have a problem with high FARMS schools, and I think the new principal is outstanding. But- if you think the school is going to improve in a Great Schools sense (which is really all based on test scores, which is based on socioeconomic status) then you are dead wrong.

I don't think I said it would have a LOWER fr/l rate. I just don't think it's going to be 80% like Carlin Springs, which, btw, has a GS score of 6. There are other north and south Arlingon schools that have 40-60% fr/l that are GS 5/6. And there are some with similar fr/l rate that have 3/4. I don't know what exactly the difference is, but I suspect strong leadership and buy-in from at least 20% UMC families who donate their time and money to the school helps. I don't see a scenario in which Drew does not have those two things.

GS ratings are kinda bogus anyway.consider that the farms rate for the graded program is probably at least 80 percent right now. The Montessori income guidelines aren't the same as farms. That's why the Montessori program won't be title 1 at Henry and aps has said so. Adding a bunch of apartments from arna valley isn't going to make the farms rate go down, and the SFH in Nauck are all already zoned to Drew

Right, but now they don't have guaranteed admission to Montessori or Immersion, so if they don't get a countywide lottery spot, they either have to move, go private, or enroll at Drew.

Exactly right. Move, go private or option out is basically what Douglas park SFH have been doing for years, instead of attending Randolph.

So much south Arlington delusion, especially regarding Drew.
Eventually the Nauck families will come to understand what the Douglas Park families have known for years. Those schools aren’t ever improving, so make a plan.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:the responses from 46010 saying that they would walk every day to fleet, but can't walk safely to ANY OTHER school made me laugh.
That zone goes across Columbia Pike to get to Fleet, and walks nearly a mile. It would also be less than a mile crossing Walter Reed to Drew. Or less than a mile crossing Glebe to Randolph.
I get it- you don't want to go to those schools- but to say you can safely cross Columbia Pike but not the other ones is a little silly.

That section of Douglas park is the new Arlington forest. A lot of people bought there thinking they had very cleverly saved some coin instead of moving to Arlington heights to gain access to Henry. They feel stupid and angry now and are gonna take it out on aps.

Please. No one saved money “buying” into Henry. They paid for access to that school, and now they are screwed. Of course they don’t live north of 50, so they don’t get to complain.
I f#cking hate this county.

+1. I notice a lot of vitriol toward Henry-zoned parents on this board. But it’s okay for everyone else to kick and scream when they might be rezoned. No one feels “stupid” or “angry” - just concerned because there’s a lot at stake.

Specifically, what is "at stake"?

People just don't realize that Drew as they know it will no longer exist. It's going to be almost an entirely new student body and a full neighborhood program. The "performance" of that school will increase dramatically in the first year.

Being rezoned to a much, much lower performing school like Drew or Randolph when Henry moves to Fleet.

Oh honey... no.
You don’t understand exactly how much affordable housing is about to be shifted away from Oakridge and into Drew. I love your optimism, but if that school is a 4, it will be a miracle.

?

There isn't much affordable housing in that area. Most of it was torn down, which is how Oakridge and Gunston turned around in the first place. You're correct that what does exist will be zoned to Drew, because it's closer. But it's not so much that there won't be a balance. Will it be an 8 or 9? No, but probably at least a 6.

You're just dead wrong. Arna valley has hundreds of such units that will be there in perpetuity. The Berkeley is another. Plus the Shelton across from Drew. Each of those buildings is entirely affordable housing. Drew will likely have a farms rate rivaling carlin springs.

Isn't the Berkeley on Glebe directly down the hill from Oakridge? I don't see how that's walkable to Drew - but it is clearly very walkable to Oakridge. Why would it be moved to Drew - other than the lobbying efforts of Arlington Ridge SFH-owners?

The SHelton, most likely, is already districted to Drew so the only change there would be if any kids from the Shelton currently attend Montessori do not transfer over to the new location (which is not very far away) when Montessori moves.

There are over 400 seats to fill. Shirlington is nearby, as well as some "gentrified" planning units along the Pike. Arna Valley is large enough that it could be split between Drew and Oakridge.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why everyone is saying move ATS south, and not Key.
The Spanish speakers are in South Arlington.
Barcroft elementary should be converted to immersion.

Not all are. Buckingham is in North Arlington, and it's one of the densest Latino populations in Arlington. If Key moves S, it can't be moved too close to Claremont or too far W because the Immersion division is E/W rather than N/S, again, to balance English/Spanish speakers and to encourage economic diversity. It might make sense to move Key to Barett. They'd have hundreds of Spanish speaking kids in the walk zone at that location.

Barrett has a pretty good walk zone. But ATS is less than a mile from Barrett, and doesn't have a good walk zone. Moving Key to the ATS location makes a lot of sense, and would make immersion easily accessible for the large spanish dominant population clustered in the area.

In terms of the E/W N/S divide- APS is very quietly redrawing this boundary. It can't be to close to Claremont, true- but it could move west.

How could they possibly fit the Key students at ATS? ATS is too small.

And I’m not defending ATS. I think it should just go away and transition to a neighborhood school. But, it isn’t big enough for the immersion programs.

The facilities optimization study identifies ATS as having the ability to have 753 seats (as compared to 749 at Key)
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Facilities-Optimization-Study.pdf

That's with a LOT of trailers, which is not a permanent solution. And there isn't money for an addition, at ATS or anywhere else. So they either have to gradually scale back the size of the program if they are moved to a smaller space, or they have to be moved to a space that more closely matches their current capacity.

I don't know why you guys think they're going to do these multi-step processes. They can barely keep up with what's already planned with program moves, new schools opening, and boundary changes. There is neither the money nor the staff to manage moving multiple schools. And none of the option schools are going away. It's not going to happen.

at least some members of the school board think trailers are a good solution.
APS has a written plan to grow all elementary option schools to 700 plus students-
General Principles to Increase Enrollment at Option Schools
? Grow elementary option schools to 700+ students
? If a waitlist exists for the option school, add an entry-level class cohort
? Review the number of classes annually, after APS publishes enrollment projections, to determine if
adjustments are needed; staff will also refer to the class size report and confirm the information with
principals.
? Grow elementary option schools to the “preferred” size identified in the Facility Optimization Study
(August 2017)
? Apply the adjustment to all elementary option schools

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/AFSAP-Decision-Points-FINAL-03-06-19.pdf

I like it and think it is about time they do this. If parents don’t like it, they can go back to their neighborhood school. We will know when it is intolerable when the waitlist goes down. My kid’s class has gotten three new kids so far this year, pushing them to 27. ATS doesn’t have to deal with that so they have a leg up just in that regard to overcrowding. I’ve really heard enough of their complaining.

I'm not an ATS parent, but I just don't understand how they're going to grow the option programs permanently without additions or without relocating them into the newly built schools like Fleet and Reed. ATS and Campbell are in really small, very old buildings. If they are growing permanently, they'll need new facilities.

Is that what you want APS to be spending money on? Additions at option schools and growing the option programs? Seems like a pretty bad strategy to decrease the power of the option programs. You're increasing their lobby. Because people aren't going to leave ATS because of some trailers. They'll complain, but they're not going to leave the school. And new parents will continue to apply. Option schools are the perfect fit for type-A Arlington parents. They provide a self-selecting community of highly motivated families. They'll just lobby and win the money for permanent expansions that could've been used for new neighborhood schools.

They aren’t getting expansions. They will get an additional class for a bit, then they may go back to 3 or 4 and then have to ramp up again when all the new schools are overcrowded. They will plop trailers where they can and move the helicopter landing area somewhere else. What they won’t get is one of the new Schools. That would be political suicide for the SB. And if parents are fine in trailers at ATS, then they shouldn’t be out there saying it will ruin the program, whatever that is.

You must be new here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Specifically, what is "at stake"?

People just don't realize that Drew as they know it will no longer exist. It's going to be almost an entirely new student body and a full neighborhood program. The "performance" of that school will increase dramatically in the first year.

Being rezoned to a much, much lower performing school like Drew or Randolph when Henry moves to Fleet.

Oh honey... no.
You don’t understand exactly how much affordable housing is about to be shifted away from Oakridge and into Drew. I love your optimism, but if that school is a 4, it will be a miracle.

?

There isn't much affordable housing in that area. Most of it was torn down, which is how Oakridge and Gunston turned around in the first place. You're correct that what does exist will be zoned to Drew, because it's closer. But it's not so much that there won't be a balance. Will it be an 8 or 9? No, but probably at least a 6.

You're just dead wrong. Arna valley has hundreds of such units that will be there in perpetuity. The Berkeley is another. Plus the Shelton across from Drew. Each of those buildings is entirely affordable housing. Drew will likely have a farms rate rivaling carlin springs.

Isn't the Berkeley on Glebe directly down the hill from Oakridge? I don't see how that's walkable to Drew - but it is clearly very walkable to Oakridge. Why would it be moved to Drew - other than the lobbying efforts of Arlington Ridge SFH-owners?

The SHelton, most likely, is already districted to Drew so the only change there would be if any kids from the Shelton currently attend Montessori do not transfer over to the new location (which is not very far away) when Montessori moves.

There are over 400 seats to fill. Shirlington is nearby, as well as some "gentrified" planning units along the Pike. Arna Valley is large enough that it could be split between Drew and Oakridge.

Oakridge is one of the most overcrowded schools in the county. They will use Drew to reduce the overcrowding. Do you really think they will bus Arlington Ridge to Drew and not Arna Valley and the Berkeley, no matter how walkable they are?

[Anonymous]

Oakridge is one of the most overcrowded schools in the county. They will use Drew to reduce the overcrowding. Do you really think they will bus Arlington Ridge to Drew and not Arna Valley and the Berkeley, no matter how walkable they are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Specifically, what is "at stake"?

People just don't realize that Drew as they know it will no longer exist. It's going to be almost an entirely new student body and a full neighborhood program. The "performance" of that school will increase dramatically in the first year.

Being rezoned to a much, much lower performing school like Drew or Randolph when Henry moves to Fleet.

Oh honey... no.
You don’t understand exactly how much affordable housing is about to be shifted away from Oakridge and into Drew. I love your optimism, but if that school is a 4, it will be a miracle.

?

There isn't much affordable housing in that area. Most of it was torn down, which is how Oakridge and Gunston turned around in the first place. You're correct that what does exist will be zoned to Drew, because it's closer. But it's not so much that there won't be a balance. Will it be an 8 or 9? No, but probably at least a 6.

You're just dead wrong. Arna valley has hundreds of such units that will be there in perpetuity. The Berkeley is another. Plus the Shelton across from Drew. Each of those buildings is entirely affordable housing. Drew will likely have a farms rate rivaling carlin springs.

Isn't the Berkeley on Glebe directly down the hill from Oakridge? I don't see how that's walkable to Drew - but it is clearly very walkable to Oakridge. Why would it be moved to Drew - other than the lobbying efforts of Arlington Ridge SFH-owners?

The SHelton, most likely, is already districted to Drew so the only change there would be if any kids from the Shelton currently attend Montessori do not transfer over to the new location (which is not very far away) when Montessori moves.

There are over 400 seats to fill. Shirlington is nearby, as well as some "gentrified" planning units along the Pike. Arna Valley is large enough that it could be split between Drew and Oakridge.

Oakridge is one of the most overcrowded schools in the county. They will use Drew to reduce the overcrowding. Do you really think they will bus Arlington Ridge to Drew and not Arna Valley and the Berkeley, no matter how walkable they are?

Seriously.
So.much.south Arlington. Delusion.

[Anonymous]

Can you explain this South Arlington delusion to which you refer? Sorry, I’m not getting it. I bought a house in the Henry zone. I’m not delusional about the demographics outside of the well-rated 22204 schools. I just want my kids to go to a good school, again like I imagined they would when I bought my house. Please enlighten me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain this South Arlington delusion to which you refer? Sorry, I’m not getting it. I bought a house in the Henry zone. I’m not delusional about the demographics outside of the well-rated 22204 schools. I just want my kids to go to a good school, again like I imagined they would when I bought my house. Please enlighten me.

Every school in Arlington is a good school so what is the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain this South Arlington delusion to which you refer? Sorry, I’m not getting it. I bought a house in the Henry zone. I’m not delusional about the demographics outside of the well-rated 22204 schools. I just want my kids to go to a good school, again like I imagined they would when I bought my house. Please enlighten me.

Every school in Arlington is a good school so what is the problem?

Hmmm, I’m not sure everyone else holds that opinion, nor does the data quite back it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain this South Arlington delusion to which you refer? Sorry, I’m not getting it. I bought a house in the Henry zone. I’m not delusional about the demographics outside of the well-rated 22204 schools. I just want my kids to go to a good school, again like I imagined they would when I bought my house. Please enlighten me.

Every school in Arlington is a good school so what is the problem?

Hmmm, I’m not sure everyone else holds that opinion, nor does the data quite back it up.

NP here. Unfortunately several School Board members do seem to hold this opinion. PP is mocking them, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oakridge is one of the most overcrowded schools in the county. They will use Drew to reduce the overcrowding. Do you really think they will bus Arlington Ridge to Drew and not Arna Valley and the Berkeley, no matter how walkable they are?

Of course they won't. Does anyone think that?

Drew will not be Oakridge or Henry. But it also won't be Carlin Springs. Do the math:


In the Carlin Springs attendance boundary:

Arbor Heights -198
Columbia Grove - 121
Fields of Arlington - 130
Harvey Hall - 189
Key Gardens - 22
Monterey - 109
The Serrano - 196
The Shell - 83

In the current Drew boundary:

Fort Henry Gardens - 82
The Macedonian - 36
The Shelton - 94

In the potential Drew boundary, if they sweep up Long Branch Creek:

Arna Valley - 101
Avalon - 64
The Berkley - 110
The Grove - 7

So, that's 1,048 units of AH in the Carlin Springs boundary, and 212 in the current Drew boundary, and 494 if they move all of the AH in Oakridge to Drew. There's more than double the units of AH in the Carlin Springs attendance zone. Not the same.

[Anonymous]

PPs numbers on the number of students in affordable housing in Carlin spring’s zone show the real impact of the county’s affordable housing policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PPs numbers on the number of students in affordable housing in Carlin spring’s zone show the real impact of the county’s affordable housing policy.

+1000. I’ve lost almost all hope for the county board and school board to have serious discussions about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oakridge is one of the most overcrowded schools in the county. They will use Drew to reduce the overcrowding. Do you really think they will bus Arlington Ridge to Drew and not Arna Valley and the Berkeley, no matter how walkable they are?

Of course they won't. Does anyone think that?

Drew will not be Oakridge or Henry. But it also won't be Carlin Springs. Do the math:


In the Carlin Springs attendance boundary:

Arbor Heights -198
Columbia Grove - 121
Fields of Arlington - 130
Harvey Hall - 189
Key Gardens - 22
Monterey - 109
The Serrano - 196
The Shell - 83

In the current Drew boundary:

Fort Henry Gardens - 82
The Macedonian - 36
The Shelton - 94

In the potential Drew boundary, if they sweep up Long Branch Creek:

Arna Valley - 101
Avalon - 64
The Berkley - 110
The Grove - 7

So, that's 1,048 units of AH in the Carlin Springs boundary, and 212 in the current Drew boundary, and 494 if they move all of the AH in Oakridge to Drew. There's more than double the units of AH in the Carlin Springs attendance zone. Not the same.

A useful comparison. What you're missing is that much of Nauck's SFH and duplexes are not owned by wealthy newcomers. Nauck is house rich and cash poor. Lots of people live in houses their grandparents paid off. We know from the test scores published on arlnow several years ago that drews graded program does worse than Randolph and carlin springs. That's a strong clue that the farms rate is comparable.