ATS Move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an option school, it should be the most overcrowded. No one is forcing students to go there. It is a decision parents make when they apply.

Why should ATS - or any other option school - be the most overcrowded? I would think that the most overcrowding would result from unexpectedly large enrollments in a given year. Option schools can control their enrollments, so it doesn't make sense that they would ever end up as the most overcrowded. That wouldn't be an efficient way to operate. Granted, this assumes that APS is balancing enrollments across all elementary schools, and we all agree APS is not doing a good job with that.

Option schools should certainly not be under-enrolled, and they should certainly do their share to take on extra students as needed (as should all schools). But why should they bear that burden disproportionately? Which is what you would be asking ATS to do if you went to five classes per grade. I know that some other elementary schools have five or more classes per grade, but they are in larger buildings.

You seem to be under the impression that ATS is underutilized. And as currently built, it's simply not. It happens to be in a small building. I do agree that a larger school could be built on the land, and/or that the school is a good candidate for an addition, but that's not what we are discussing here. (And, as an ATS parent, I would have absolutely no objection to putting an addition onto the school to accommodate significantly more kids.) The school is already over capacity. It already has the largest class sizes of any elementary school in the county, bar none. So ATS is already feeling the capacity crunch just like most other elementary schools in the county. I'm not sure why you think it is protected from this demographic problem.

It's tough being desired. HB Woodlawn is the most "protected" of all the choice programs. ATS has been very well protected for a very long time. You have been increasing enrollment in recent years - as you very well should. But talk to Claremont - another extremely overcrowded choice school. Their enrollment wasn't protected like ATS' all these years. And, yes, you might be feeling a little more cramped; but you've been able to control how cramped. Claremont and neighborhood schools have not had that luxury. So why should any school, choice or otherwise, be exempt from equal shares of the burden by capping enrollment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an option school, it should be the most overcrowded. No one is forcing students to go there. It is a decision parents make when they apply.

Why should ATS - or any other option school - be the most overcrowded? I would think that the most overcrowding would result from unexpectedly large enrollments in a given year. Option schools can control their enrollments, so it doesn't make sense that they would ever end up as the most overcrowded. That wouldn't be an efficient way to operate. Granted, this assumes that APS is balancing enrollments across all elementary schools, and we all agree APS is not doing a good job with that.

Option schools should certainly not be under-enrolled, and they should certainly do their share to take on extra students as needed (as should all schools). But why should they bear that burden disproportionately? Which is what you would be asking ATS to do if you went to five classes per grade. I know that some other elementary schools have five or more classes per grade, but they are in larger buildings.

You seem to be under the impression that ATS is underutilized. And as currently built, it's simply not. It happens to be in a small building. I do agree that a larger school could be built on the land, and/or that the school is a good candidate for an addition, but that's not what we are discussing here. (And, as an ATS parent, I would have absolutely no objection to putting an addition onto the school to accommodate significantly more kids.) The school is already over capacity. It already has the largest class sizes of any elementary school in the county, bar none. So ATS is already feeling the capacity crunch just like most other elementary schools in the county. I'm not sure why you think it is protected from this demographic problem.

It's tough being desired. HB Woodlawn is the most "protected" of all the choice programs. ATS has been very well protected for a very long time. You have been increasing enrollment in recent years - as you very well should. But talk to Claremont - another extremely overcrowded choice school. Their enrollment wasn't protected like ATS' all these years. And, yes, you might be feeling a little more cramped; but you've been able to control how cramped. Claremont and neighborhood schools have not had that luxury. So why should any school, choice or otherwise, be exempt from equal shares of the burden by capping enrollment?

Did you even read PP's last paragraph?

[Anonymous]

Ats has lots of space to expand its common areas without losing outdoor space. Aps needs to make that a 725 kid School just like it wants to do with others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an option school, it should be the most overcrowded. No one is forcing students to go there. It is a decision parents make when they apply.

Why should ATS - or any other option school - be the most overcrowded? I would think that the most overcrowding would result from unexpectedly large enrollments in a given year. Option schools can control their enrollments, so it doesn't make sense that they would ever end up as the most overcrowded. That wouldn't be an efficient way to operate. Granted, this assumes that APS is balancing enrollments across all elementary schools, and we all agree APS is not doing a good job with that.

Option schools should certainly not be under-enrolled, and they should certainly do their share to take on extra students as needed (as should all schools). But why should they bear that burden disproportionately? Which is what you would be asking ATS to do if you went to five classes per grade. I know that some other elementary schools have five or more classes per grade, but they are in larger buildings.

You seem to be under the impression that ATS is underutilized. And as currently built, it's simply not. It happens to be in a small building. I do agree that a larger school could be built on the land, and/or that the school is a good candidate for an addition, but that's not what we are discussing here. (And, as an ATS parent, I would have absolutely no objection to putting an addition onto the school to accommodate significantly more kids.) The school is already over capacity. It already has the largest class sizes of any elementary school in the county, bar none. So ATS is already feeling the capacity crunch just like most other elementary schools in the county. I'm not sure why you think it is protected from this demographic problem.

It's tough being desired. HB Woodlawn is the most "protected" of all the choice programs. ATS has been very well protected for a very long time. You have been increasing enrollment in recent years - as you very well should. But talk to Claremont - another extremely overcrowded choice school. Their enrollment wasn't protected like ATS' all these years. And, yes, you might be feeling a little more cramped; but you've been able to control how cramped. Claremont and neighborhood schools have not had that luxury. So why should any school, choice or otherwise, be exempt from equal shares of the burden by capping enrollment?

Did you even read PP's last paragraph?

Not the PP you are asking the question of but... ATS has room for trailers on its campus to take on more students. It won't interfere with the helipad space, either. And I respectfully disagree that ATS has felt the crunch 'like everyone else'. ATS can control the numbers. Other schools might learn in August that they have another 50-100 kids to accomodate. Tell me where ATS experiences that? Oh right - they don't. They have the luxury of planning where kids go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an option school, it should be the most overcrowded. No one is forcing students to go there. It is a decision parents make when they apply.

Why should ATS - or any other option school - be the most overcrowded? I would think that the most overcrowding would result from unexpectedly large enrollments in a given year. Option schools can control their enrollments, so it doesn't make sense that they would ever end up as the most overcrowded. That wouldn't be an efficient way to operate. Granted, this assumes that APS is balancing enrollments across all elementary schools, and we all agree APS is not doing a good job with that.

Option schools should certainly not be under-enrolled, and they should certainly do their share to take on extra students as needed (as should all schools). But why should they bear that burden disproportionately? Which is what you would be asking ATS to do if you went to five classes per grade. I know that some other elementary schools have five or more classes per grade, but they are in larger buildings.

You seem to be under the impression that ATS is underutilized. And as currently built, it's simply not. It happens to be in a small building. I do agree that a larger school could be built on the land, and/or that the school is a good candidate for an addition, but that's not what we are discussing here. (And, as an ATS parent, I would have absolutely no objection to putting an addition onto the school to accommodate significantly more kids.) The school is already over capacity. It already has the largest class sizes of any elementary school in the county, bar none. So ATS is already feeling the capacity crunch just like most other elementary schools in the county. I'm not sure why you think it is protected from this demographic problem.

It's tough being desired. HB Woodlawn is the most "protected" of all the choice programs. ATS has been very well protected for a very long time. You have been increasing enrollment in recent years - as you very well should. But talk to Claremont - another extremely overcrowded choice school. Their enrollment wasn't protected like ATS' all these years. And, yes, you might be feeling a little more cramped; but you've been able to control how cramped. Claremont and neighborhood schools have not had that luxury. So why should any school, choice or otherwise, be exempt from equal shares of the burden by capping enrollment?

Did you even read PP's last paragraph?

Yes. Did you? The poster was complaining that ATS is already more than fully utilized. My point is that ATS has controlled the degree to which it is over-utilized, while neighborhood schools and Claremont have not had that ability. The ATS is not as overcrowded as some other schools - because they have capped enrollment. Only in the past few years have they been given forced to take on a somewhat larger share of the overall enrollment burden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP you are asking the question of but... ATS has room for trailers on its campus to take on more students. It won't interfere with the helipad space, either. And I respectfully disagree that ATS has felt the crunch 'like everyone else'. ATS can control the numbers. Other schools might learn in August that they have another 50-100 kids to accomodate. Tell me where ATS experiences that? Oh right - they don't. They have the luxury of planning where kids go.

they *might* but which ones actually did? also ATS has 24 kids in every classroom... do these *other schools* reach the student cap for every classroom? i believe one of the things the Nottingham parents bragged about was they're classroom size was always kept low even when they're *overcrowded* back in the days, some K classes only had 17 or 19 - that's like Title I school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP you are asking the question of but... ATS has room for trailers on its campus to take on more students. It won't interfere with the helipad space, either. And I respectfully disagree that ATS has felt the crunch 'like everyone else'. ATS can control the numbers. Other schools might learn in August that they have another 50-100 kids to accomodate. Tell me where ATS experiences that? Oh right - they don't. They have the luxury of planning where kids go.

they *might* but which ones actually did? also ATS has 24 kids in every classroom... do these *other schools* reach the student cap for every classroom? i believe one of the things the Nottingham parents bragged about was they're classroom size was always kept low even when they're *overcrowded* back in the days, some K classes only had 17 or 19 - that's like Title I school level.

That's better than most Title 1 schools, which are just one under max capacity.

Now that Claremont is countywide and doesn't HAVE to take neighborhood kids from multiple neighborhood zones, their enrollment will be capped as well. That was the problem with Claremont--they had a lot of kids guaranteed to get in based on the old policy. They became crowded just like other neighborhood schools, except they were promised to multiple neighborhoods, simply more kids than possible.

Neighborhood boundaries need to be adjusted on a more equitable basis. But option schools have to have capped enrollment; there is no other way to manage the lottery system. Also, some schools have particular features as part of their system that make adding additional teachers or classrooms at the last minute impossible (for instance, I understand it's more difficult to find teachers certified to teach Montessori and Immersion, and that Campbell has looping classes so you need the same number of K-1 classes and can't have a "bubble" year where they take an additional classroom of students). And ATS would have a limit on the number of trailers it can fit.

What happened to McKinley is terrible and is a situation that should be avoided, not repeated in the interest of making every school suffer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP you are asking the question of but... ATS has room for trailers on its campus to take on more students. It won't interfere with the helipad space, either. And I respectfully disagree that ATS has felt the crunch 'like everyone else'. ATS can control the numbers. Other schools might learn in August that they have another 50-100 kids to accomodate. Tell me where ATS experiences that? Oh right - they don't. They have the luxury of planning where kids go.

they *might* but which ones actually did? also ATS has 24 kids in every classroom... do these *other schools* reach the student cap for every classroom? i believe one of the things the Nottingham parents bragged about was they're classroom size was always kept low even when they're *overcrowded* back in the days, some K classes only had 17 or 19 - that's like Title I school level.

I am not naming my school because you seem bitter, but we had an additional 60 kids register in the last half of summer. We had to add an additional third-grade class because of how many kids signed up late. It all worked out, but yes, this does happen. Neighborhood can’t max out every class like ATS, but we also don’t get the luxury of calling our school enrollment like ATS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP you are asking the question of but... ATS has room for trailers on its campus to take on more students. It won't interfere with the helipad space, either. And I respectfully disagree that ATS has felt the crunch 'like everyone else'. ATS can control the numbers. Other schools might learn in August that they have another 50-100 kids to accomodate. Tell me where ATS experiences that? Oh right - they don't. They have the luxury of planning where kids go.

they *might* but which ones actually did? also ATS has 24 kids in every classroom... do these *other schools* reach the student cap for every classroom? i believe one of the things the Nottingham parents bragged about was they're classroom size was always kept low even when they're *overcrowded* back in the days, some K classes only had 17 or 19 - that's like Title I school level.

I am not naming my school because you seem bitter, but we had an additional 60 kids register in the last half of summer. We had to add an additional third-grade class because of how many kids signed up late. It all worked out, but yes, this does happen. Neighborhood can’t max out every class like ATS, but we also don’t get the luxury of calling our school enrollment like ATS.

Well, that's just part of the difference between option and neighborhood school. Neighborhood school = proximity, demographic homogeneity, similar pedagogy to other neighborhood school, and neighborhood cohesion. Option schools = traveling further (potentially), demographic diversity, unique pedagogy, and not being as tied to one's neighborhood. They each have their benefits and drawbacks. But they ARE different, and will always be different. That's why they're called "option" vs. "neighborhood" schools. If your kids goes to an option school, maybe their friendships outside of school are more difficult to maintain (play dates with kids who live far away rather than walking home from the bus and everbody going to Larlo's for a snack and a quick game of hoops in the driveway). And if you want your kids to have that experience more than you want them to attend a school with a capped enrollment, that's a choice you make. You just don't enter the lotteries. I personally don't know anybody who wants their kids to go to an option schools unless they have a compelling reason (kid is being bullied in neighborhood school, kid is not successful in current academic setting, kid's zoned school isn't meeting their needs, kid's zoned school is segregated and none of the neighbors send their kids to the neighborhood school anyway).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

.

Well, that's just part of the difference between option and neighborhood school. Neighborhood school = proximity, demographic homogeneity, similar pedagogy to other neighborhood school, and neighborhood cohesion. Option schools = traveling further (potentially), demographic diversity, unique pedagogy, and not being as tied to one's neighborhood. They each have their benefits and drawbacks. But they ARE different, and will always be different. That's why they're called "option" vs. "neighborhood" schools. If your kids goes to an option school, maybe their friendships outside of school are more difficult to maintain (play dates with kids who live far away rather than walking home from the bus and everbody going to Larlo's for a snack and a quick game of hoops in the driveway). And if you want your kids to have that experience more than you want them to attend a school with a capped enrollment, that's a choice you make. You just don't enter the lotteries. I personally don't know anybody who wants their kids to go to an option schools unless they have a compelling reason (kid is being bullied in neighborhood school, kid is not successful in current academic setting, kid's zoned school isn't meeting their needs, kid's zoned school is segregated and none of the neighbors send their kids to the neighborhood school anyway).

How about D. None of the Above. And I simply would like my child to learn in two languages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

.

Well, that's just part of the difference between option and neighborhood school. Neighborhood school = proximity, demographic homogeneity, similar pedagogy to other neighborhood school, and neighborhood cohesion. Option schools = traveling further (potentially), demographic diversity, unique pedagogy, and not being as tied to one's neighborhood. They each have their benefits and drawbacks. But they ARE different, and will always be different. That's why they're called "option" vs. "neighborhood" schools. If your kids goes to an option school, maybe their friendships outside of school are more difficult to maintain (play dates with kids who live far away rather than walking home from the bus and everbody going to Larlo's for a snack and a quick game of hoops in the driveway). And if you want your kids to have that experience more than you want them to attend a school with a capped enrollment, that's a choice you make. You just don't enter the lotteries. I personally don't know anybody who wants their kids to go to an option schools unless they have a compelling reason (kid is being bullied in neighborhood school, kid is not successful in current academic setting, kid's zoned school isn't meeting their needs, kid's zoned school is segregated and none of the neighbors send their kids to the neighborhood school anyway).

How about D. None of the Above. And I simply would like my child to learn in two languages?

Fair enough. Families are opting for the unique pedagogy. I mentioned that early on, but forgot to include it to the list at the end as one of the compelling reasons people select an option school.