ATS Move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Is that really because of the program or is it because the lottery only format means every single child has an involved parent who took the time to apply? There aren't any kids who are at ATS by default like a comparable neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

The problem is that there is no easy place to put ATS in south Arlington, where it to be moved. There isn't excess capacity. There is a cost to putting it someplace like Tuckahoe or Nottingham in terms of accessibility by families further away, but if that's where there is space and the current site is needed for something else, then that is a conscious trade off that APS will need to make. They may decide it isn't worth it, but with overcrowding countywide, they need to fill seats appropriately at all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Is that really because of the program or is it because the lottery only format means every single child has an involved parent who took the time to apply? There aren't any kids who are at ATS by default like a comparable neighborhood school.

+1. It is not the status of being poor or being a racial minority that makes ones test scores lower. It is b/c typically poverty correlates to less involved parents/ less value on education or understanding of its benefits, etc. If you are taking a population that had to show up at ATS for an info session, and apply to a lottery 6 months before the child started kindergarten you have highly motivated parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Is that really because of the program or is it because the lottery only format means every single child has an involved parent who took the time to apply? There aren't any kids who are at ATS by default like a comparable neighborhood school.

+1. It is not the status of being poor or being a racial minority that makes ones test scores lower. It is b/c typically poverty correlates to less involved parents/ less value on education or understanding of its benefits, etc. If you are taking a population that had to show up at ATS for an info session, and apply to a lottery 6 months before the child started kindergarten you have highly motivated parents.

Well, I guess we'll see if this is true because you don't have to do any of those things any longer if you get your kids into VPI (same process whether neighborhood school, or ATS). Not a lot "high involvement" required there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Is that really because of the program or is it because the lottery only format means every single child has an involved parent who took the time to apply? There aren't any kids who are at ATS by default like a comparable neighborhood school.

+1. It is not the status of being poor or being a racial minority that makes ones test scores lower. It is b/c typically poverty correlates to less involved parents/ less value on education or understanding of its benefits, etc. If you are taking a population that had to show up at ATS for an info session, and apply to a lottery 6 months before the child started kindergarten you have highly motivated parents.

Well, I guess we'll see if this is true because you don't have to do any of those things any longer if you get your kids into VPI (same process whether neighborhood school, or ATS). Not a lot "high involvement" required there.

actually- to get your kids into VPI at ATS you absolutely have to apply 6 months prior to school starting, VPI applications are on the same schedule as lottery school applications. And you have to opt to go to ATS over the nearest neighborhood school for VPI. You can get into VPI after the April 15th application deadline, but you cannot get into VPI at ATS (its fills up with the people who applied by the deadline.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

They actually aren't higher. 3 APS N. ARL schools have scores equal to or higher.

If you really cared about diversity, and you don't, it would go to S. ARL so those parents working 2 or 3 jobs could get to ATS extended day. Oh but wait, is your argument that those three job families won't be "involved" and is that the secret to ATS success and ATS allows SES privilege in and thus looking diverse when it really isn't?. yes. That is the reality. It's a neighborhood school; let it be one. If it's special, move it to where others would benefit from the magic.

Let me be clear about something. APS wastes a LOT of money and the choice system is no longer a choice and is a waste of administrative dollars. We need to save money on that administrative waste and on double transportation. I'm sure there are many other redundancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

They actually aren't higher. 3 APS N. ARL schools have scores equal to or higher.

If you really cared about diversity, and you don't, it would go to S. ARL so those parents working 2 or 3 jobs could get to ATS extended day. Oh but wait, is your argument that those three job families won't be "involved" and is that the secret to ATS success and ATS allows SES privilege in and thus looking diverse when it really isn't?. yes. That is the reality. It's a neighborhood school; let it be one. If it's special, move it to where others would benefit from the magic.

Let me be clear about something. APS wastes a LOT of money and the choice system is no longer a choice and is a waste of administrative dollars. We need to save money on that administrative waste and on double transportation. I'm sure there are many other redundancies.

Let me draw your attention to the year-round calendar at Barcroft. Cut that first.

[Anonymous]

Let's make a list and add that to it.
H_B is another program where a tiny group gets in and everybody tries. Cut it.

[Anonymous]

ATS's test scores also reflect its drill-and-kill culture. (There was a magazine article a while back in which the principal talked about how she gets kids who aren't reading by the end of K to be happy about being held back. So if you're down with arbitrary, developmentally measures, ATS is the place for you. But it's not better for kids.)

I'd be curious about the long-term benefits of ATS on test scores, high school graduation, and employment.

I know I sound hostile to ATS, but I promise I'm not. I may roll my eyes, but I don't have steam coming out of my ears. I just think APS should be making neighborhood ESs its first priority, the immersion, then Montessori, and then, ONLY THEN, other choice programs. And for every high-intensity academic grind, there should be a laid-back, groovy, low-tech school, or you don't really have choice.

[Anonymous]

Jeez, the ATS program is NOT NOT NOT a neighborhood school. Stop saying that it is so that you can get the program for your kid without having to apply, like the parents did at ASFS. Sorry, but we are on to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Let me draw your attention to the year-round calendar at Barcroft. Cut that first.

Summer learning loss is a real issue. The case against year-round calendar is more economic (loss of summer jobs, potentially higher costs for teacher/transport/building) and not a practical one. A good overview is here: https://www.learningliftoff.com/year-round-school/ I wouldn't say it's a luxury and it may be use of the school building more efficient as the article points out.

[Anonymous]

Got another one: emersion in entire school. Rather than bus these kids west and these kids east, could we have emersion in the schools where they are now, but also have some parts that are not emersion so we don't have to bus out non-emersion kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Let me draw your attention to the year-round calendar at Barcroft. Cut that first.

Summer learning loss is a real issue. The case against year-round calendar is more economic (loss of summer jobs, potentially higher costs for teacher/transport/building) and not a practical one. A good overview is here: https://www.learningliftoff.com/year-round-school/ I wouldn't say it's a luxury and it may be use of the school building more efficient as the article points out.

It's just one school though. Cost savings come from not having so many different special programs that cause redundancies and poor spending choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, the ATS program is NOT NOT NOT a neighborhood school. Stop saying that it is so that you can get the program for your kid without having to apply, like the parents did at ASFS. Sorry, but we are on to you.

Then move it south. Just because you want to say it's different doesn't make it different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, the ATS program is NOT NOT NOT a neighborhood school. Stop saying that it is so that you can get the program for your kid without having to apply, like the parents did at ASFS. Sorry, but we are on to you.

What the unique educational theory is that differentiates it from a neighborhood school? I do not live in the neighborhood and I'm not trying to get in. I honestly don't understand what makes it unique beyond the fact that all students have a parent who is willing to jump through a few administrative hoops. This is from the APS website describing option schools:

Campbell is an Expeditionary Learning School, in which students learn through authentic hands on experiences and through nature. Developmental appropriateness is a guiding force at Campbell, where students develop at their own pace.

Claremont Elementary School is one of two English/Spanish Immersion schools. The program is also offered at Key. Two-way Spanish immersion program includes half-day content instruction in English and Spanish in developing communication skills of listening, speaking, etc.

Drew uses a modern approach to instruction which includes team teaching and multi-age grouping of students of different grade levels. Drew Model School has two educational tracks, one which follows the Montessori method of instruction. Drew is the only school that offers Montessori through the 5th grade.

Compared to:

The ATS approach to instruction is traditional and structured.

What does that mean and how is it different from the approach at any other school?!