ATS Move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores also reflect its drill-and-kill culture. (There was a magazine article a while back in which the principal talked about how she gets kids who aren't reading by the end of K to be happy about being held back. So if you're down with arbitrary, developmentally measures, ATS is the place for you. But it's not better for kids.)

I'd be curious about the long-term benefits of ATS on test scores, high school graduation, and employment.

I know I sound hostile to ATS, but I promise I'm not. I may roll my eyes, but I don't have steam coming out of my ears. I just think APS should be making neighborhood ESs its first priority, the immersion, then Montessori, and then, ONLY THEN, other choice programs. And for every high-intensity academic grind, there should be a laid-back, groovy, low-tech school, or you don't really have choice.

I get your point but the groovy low tech schools are not in ARL. They all have the same test scores because they are all teaching the same (and to the SOL). Now we know how ATS inflates their scores. Coaches out the weak. Let's turn it back to the neighborhood and make that principal work in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Is that really because of the program or is it because the lottery only format means every single child has an involved parent who took the time to apply? There aren't any kids who are at ATS by default like a comparable neighborhood school.

+1. It is not the status of being poor or being a racial minority that makes ones test scores lower. It is b/c typically poverty correlates to less involved parents/ less value on education or understanding of its benefits, etc. If you are taking a population that had to show up at ATS for an info session, and apply to a lottery 6 months before the child started kindergarten you have highly motivated parents.

Or discrimination based on SES. Don't judge a parent as unmotivated b/c she's working 3 jobs. But give her girls a good school and stop taking their places if you are in N ARL. Can't you see the hypocrisy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Please. 900k homes in Douglas Park? No.
People are getting a deal to live there. Randolph is the price you pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores also reflect its drill-and-kill culture. (There was a magazine article a while back in which the principal talked about how she gets kids who aren't reading by the end of K to be happy about being held back. So if you're down with arbitrary, developmentally measures, ATS is the place for you. But it's not better for kids.)

I'd be curious about the long-term benefits of ATS on test scores, high school graduation, and employment.

I know I sound hostile to ATS, but I promise I'm not. I may roll my eyes, but I don't have steam coming out of my ears. I just think APS should be making neighborhood ESs its first priority, the immersion, then Montessori, and then, ONLY THEN, other choice programs. And for every high-intensity academic grind, there should be a laid-back, groovy, low-tech school, or you don't really have choice.

Uh, maybe you should re-check your list of option schools. Because I think you might have missed one that is exactly what you're complaining APS doesn't have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Is that really because of the program or is it because the lottery only format means every single child has an involved parent who took the time to apply? There aren't any kids who are at ATS by default like a comparable neighborhood school.

+1. It is not the status of being poor or being a racial minority that makes ones test scores lower. It is b/c typically poverty correlates to less involved parents/ less value on education or understanding of its benefits, etc. If you are taking a population that had to show up at ATS for an info session, and apply to a lottery 6 months before the child started kindergarten you have highly motivated parents.

Well, I guess we'll see if this is true because you don't have to do any of those things any longer if you get your kids into VPI (same process whether neighborhood school, or ATS). Not a lot "high involvement" required there.

actually- to get your kids into VPI at ATS you absolutely have to apply 6 months prior to school starting, VPI applications are on the same schedule as lottery school applications. And you have to opt to go to ATS over the nearest neighborhood school for VPI. You can get into VPI after the April 15th application deadline, but you cannot get into VPI at ATS (its fills up with the people who applied by the deadline.)

I was told that VPI was a lottery, not rolling admission. If it's a lottery, wouldn't it be held on one day? So you either get in or you don't, but you must have applied by whatever the lottery deadline is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Let me draw your attention to the year-round calendar at Barcroft. Cut that first.

Summer learning loss is a real issue. The case against year-round calendar is more economic (loss of summer jobs, potentially higher costs for teacher/transport/building) and not a practical one. A good overview is here: https://www.learningliftoff.com/year-round-school/ I wouldn't say it's a luxury and it may be use of the school building more efficient as the article points out.

The cost of transportation for the transfers out is a cost. Either make it an option school and rezone the neighborhood to a different school(s) or end the calendar. Or if it's such a benefit and not any more costly, make every school in the system have the calendar.

[Anonymous]

Well, I guess we'll see if this is true because you don't have to do any of those things any longer if you get your kids into VPI (same process whether neighborhood school, or ATS). Not a lot "high involvement" required there.

actually- to get your kids into VPI at ATS you absolutely have to apply 6 months prior to school starting, VPI applications are on the same schedule as lottery school applications. And you have to opt to go to ATS over the nearest neighborhood school for VPI. You can get into VPI after the April 15th application deadline, but you cannot get into VPI at ATS (its fills up with the people who applied by the deadline.)

I was told that VPI was a lottery, not rolling admission. If it's a lottery, wouldn't it be held on one day? So you either get in or you don't, but you must have applied by whatever the lottery deadline is?

VPI has a deadline- then applicants are ranked by order of priority. But then, some people are let in as the summer goes on gets closer to school. I don't know if they are saving seats, or if they don't get enough applications to completely fill the seats Apr 15th- but I know of high needs kids that were admitted to VPI when they were identified by school staff, or other community sources, even after the year had started.
Point being- those kids are not going to ATS b/c they ATS VPI slots due all fill right away.

[Anonymous]

ATS is a choice school - the program can move, just as HB did. It is about the program not the building, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Let me draw your attention to the year-round calendar at Barcroft. Cut that first.

Summer learning loss is a real issue. The case against year-round calendar is more economic (loss of summer jobs, potentially higher costs for teacher/transport/building) and not a practical one. A good overview is here: https://www.learningliftoff.com/year-round-school/ I wouldn't say it's a luxury and it may be use of the school building more efficient as the article points out.

The cost of transportation for the transfers out is a cost. Either make it an option school and rezone the neighborhood to a different school(s) or end the calendar. Or if it's such a benefit and not any more costly, make every school in the system have the calendar.

The neighborhood can option out to Randolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Is that really because of the program or is it because the lottery only format means every single child has an involved parent who took the time to apply? There aren't any kids who are at ATS by default like a comparable neighborhood school.

+1. It is not the status of being poor or being a racial minority that makes ones test scores lower. It is b/c typically poverty correlates to less involved parents/ less value on education or understanding of its benefits, etc. If you are taking a population that had to show up at ATS for an info session, and apply to a lottery 6 months before the child started kindergarten you have highly motivated parents.

Well, I guess we'll see if this is true because you don't have to do any of those things any longer if you get your kids into VPI (same process whether neighborhood school, or ATS). Not a lot "high involvement" required there.

actually- to get your kids into VPI at ATS you absolutely have to apply 6 months prior to school starting, VPI applications are on the same schedule as lottery school applications. And you have to opt to go to ATS over the nearest neighborhood school for VPI. You can get into VPI after the April 15th application deadline, but you cannot get into VPI at ATS (its fills up with the people who applied by the deadline.)

I was told that VPI was a lottery, not rolling admission. If it's a lottery, wouldn't it be held on one day? So you either get in or you don't, but you must have applied by whatever the lottery deadline is?

I think it’s a lottery, if more applications for a certain school than slots - because you can choose your preferred school. So yes, there is a deadline for that, also for the siblings of VPI - there is a deadline as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores also reflect its drill-and-kill culture. (There was a magazine article a while back in which the principal talked about how she gets kids who aren't reading by the end of K to be happy about being held back. So if you're down with arbitrary, developmentally measures, ATS is the place for you. But it's not better for kids.)

I'd be curious about the long-term benefits of ATS on test scores, high school graduation, and employment.

I know I sound hostile to ATS, but I promise I'm not. I may roll my eyes, but I don't have steam coming out of my ears. I just think APS should be making neighborhood ESs its first priority, the immersion, then Montessori, and then, ONLY THEN, other choice programs. And for every high-intensity academic grind, there should be a laid-back, groovy, low-tech school, or you don't really have choice.

Uh, maybe you should re-check your list of option schools. Because I think you might have missed one that is exactly what you're complaining APS doesn't have.

HB? No. It's got that branding but it's not much different. Plus, everybody tries to get in; test scores equal. NOt a choice. A neighborhood school that looks like a cherry for administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS is a choice school - the program can move, just as HB did. It is about the program not the building, right?

I am not a fan of ATS, but that location makes sense as a choice school because it has such a tiny walk zone. APS is all about walkability right now, so making that building a neighborhood school and putting a choice school where there are a lot more walkers would probably be a hard sell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS's test scores are generally higher than the average APS school. They are not significantly higher than some other N. Arlington schools, but they manage to be equal or higher with a more diverse population. It's not particularly impressive to have a 97% pass rate or whatever if your school is 97% white kids whose parents live in homes with a median price of $900K. It's a little more impressive when you're getting that same pass rate with 50% white kids, 20+% ESOL and FARMS and a bunch of kids from families who are very solidly middle class vs. quite wealthy.

I think if you moved the program way into South Arlington, you'd lose some of the UMC white families who live in North Arlington and attract even more UMC white families who live in South Arlington. Some Discovery/Nottingham/Tuckahoe/ Jamestown parents would decide that their kid would get a perfectly good education at their home school, some families very close to the current ATS would decide that Ashlawn or Barrett was better than driving halfway across the county, and a bunch of parents who bought $900k houses in Alcova Heights and Douglas Park would get really excited to have a better shot at ATS.

The non-white component of ATS would probably expand - some Drew/HB/Randolph/Carlin Springs families would be more likely to apply because a S. Arl location would be even more convenient than the current location.

Please. 900k homes in Douglas Park? No.
People are getting a deal to live there. Randolph is the price you pay.

Douglas Park? Yes. 1.1 Million ones are selling as well. You just sound woefully uninformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS is a choice school - the program can move, just as HB did. It is about the program not the building, right?

Where do you think they could put it where the neighbors wouldn't immediately start whining that it should be a neighborhood school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS is a choice school - the program can move, just as HB did. It is about the program not the building, right?

I am not a fan of ATS, but that location makes sense as a choice school because it has such a tiny walk zone. APS is all about walkability right now, so making that building a neighborhood school and putting a choice school where there are a lot more walkers would probably be a hard sell.

Sufficient capacity is priority number one, ideally through maximizing walkability. The question is if we need more capacity in the NE corner of the county, but have excess capacity in the NW side of the county, does it make more sense to put that capacity closer to the middle (i.e. the ATS site), or on the far western edge (i.e. Tuckahoe site). Neither school has a uniquely high-volume walk zone so most students are bussed to either location regardless.