What is really behind the surge in applications to top colleges?

[Anonymous]

Amherst got more than 9700 applications this year. Our son just got a likely letter from them and it said that. Last year, they had 9285 and admitted 1198.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you are already paying thousands for SAT prep, college counselor, essay reviews, etc., another $1,500 for applications is nothing. Takes no effort give the Common App.

If you say so. I don't live in this world. My kid did test prep but that's it. He applied to 10 and I thought that was a lot and maybe too many. Why do you need or want to apply to 30-40? Applying to 40 schools=$3000 if it's $75/school. Also many have specific essay questions in addition to standard essay. The whole thing is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are already paying thousands for SAT prep, college counselor, essay reviews, etc., another $1,500 for applications is nothing. Takes no effort give the Common App.

If you say so. I don't live in this world. My kid did test prep but that's it. He applied to 10 and I thought that was a lot and maybe too many. Why do you need or want to apply to 30-40? Applying to 40 schools=$3000 if it's $75/school. Also many have specific essay questions in addition to standard essay. The whole thing is absurd.

Most application fees are around $50, not $75. Most if the large state schools do not have the additional essay requirement. Some don’t require any at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are already paying thousands for SAT prep, college counselor, essay reviews, etc., another $1,500 for applications is nothing. Takes no effort give the Common App.

If you say so. I don't live in this world. My kid did test prep but that's it. He applied to 10 and I thought that was a lot and maybe too many. Why do you need or want to apply to 30-40? Applying to 40 schools=$3000 if it's $75/school. Also many have specific essay questions in addition to standard essay. The whole thing is absurd.

If they can afford it why do you care? There is no rule that says you can only apply to 10. Everyone casts a wide net, some wider than others.

[Anonymous]

As a parent of two college-age students going through his second application cycle, I'd like to share a few thoughts about the state of the application/admission process at the most competitive schools. I've read and researched extensively and studied available information on public results sites and common data sets and have come to these conclusions. Many if not most of you have no doubt also done your research and rexognized these things. Note: I am a strong proponent of affirmative action in admissions; my two non-diverse students both are standout academic performers both in high school and college.

First, to all well qualified 2022 applicants, all performance and extracurricular variables being equal, the admissions process is now driven to a large extent by family financial and diversity factors. Many need-blind schools' admissions offices are aware of the fact that an applicant is seeking aid but not his financial circumstances, and you should not assume they ignore this information. And at need aware schools, your financial need will definitely affect your chance of admission.

The influence of financial consideations is also reflected in the greatly enhanced xhances of ED admission. As widely reported, AOs prefer applicants who commit to paying full freight regardless of the fin aid offer. Between 2015 and today, controllong for the size of an EA applicant pool, the chances of an applicant's EA admission have risen signoficantly as the market has realized this.

Diversity policies have also greatly affected the admissions process. Economically and ethnically non-diverse students today make up a minority of enrollees at many of the most highly ranked schools. This the number of slots available to these applicants and, hence, their chances of admission, are presumably less than half of those reflected on schools' websites and in ranking service's' listings. Obviously, the same is true to an even greater extent for ethnically and economically diverse applicants. Because most schools have policies that allocate slots along these lines, students-within-these-categories' chances are also affected by the size of their own applicant pool.

Given the very large and growing number of applications schools receive, the result of these realities is that the admissions process is now not simply competitive, but little more than a lottery for the majority of highly qualified applicants. Indeed, the top institutions oftten publicly state that many if not most of their applicants are well qualified academically.

So what are an applicant's chances? For those EA applicants with truly exceptional skills and diversity hooks, probably good. For the rest, no better than 3 percent on a good day. Another way of stating this is "next to zero."

I mention these conclusions because I see so many hopeful applicants on these CC threads ask for their chances and receive answers (guesses) based on their scores and grades. As much as these factors should be primary determinants, they are only a small part of the picture. For good reasons, many with lower stats will have preference depending on financial, diversity status, application track and other factors.

It seems the only way around this problem is to apply to more - and several less competitive - schools, and accept that your chance of admission to the top schools is far less than advertized. This situation is resulting in an application nuclear arms race that only a very few will win. I suggest that college counselors aggressively advise the vast majority of students that it is not worth,applying to the Ivies and other similarly competitive schools, except as a throwaway, and that in any event their chances of admission are virtually nil. Hopefully this will result in more realistic student expectations and a greater likelihood of satisfaction with the schools to which they are ultimately admitted.

[Anonymous]

I see your points but IMO the high performing kid is between and rock and a hard spot as yield protection at the lower ranked schools is also strongly in play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two college-age students going through his second application cycle, I'd like to share a few thoughts about the state of the application/admission process at the most competitive schools. I've read and researched extensively and studied available information on public results sites and common data sets and have come to these conclusions. Many if not most of you have no doubt also done your research and rexognized these things. Note: I am a strong proponent of affirmative action in admissions; my two non-diverse students both are standout academic performers both in high school and college.

First, to all well qualified 2022 applicants, all performance and extracurricular variables being equal, the admissions process is now driven to a large extent by family financial and diversity factors. Many need-blind schools' admissions offices are aware of the fact that an applicant is seeking aid but not his financial circumstances, and you should not assume they ignore this information. And at need aware schools, your financial need will definitely affect your chance of admission.

The influence of financial consideations is also reflected in the greatly enhanced xhances of ED admission. As widely reported, AOs prefer applicants who commit to paying full freight regardless of the fin aid offer. Between 2015 and today, controllong for the size of an EA applicant pool, the chances of an applicant's EA admission have risen signoficantly as the market has realized this.

Diversity policies have also greatly affected the admissions process. Economically and ethnically non-diverse students today make up a minority of enrollees at many of the most highly ranked schools. This the number of slots available to these applicants and, hence, their chances of admission, are presumably less than half of those reflected on schools' websites and in ranking service's' listings. Obviously, the same is true to an even greater extent for ethnically and economically diverse applicants. Because most schools have policies that allocate slots along these lines, students-within-these-categories' chances are also affected by the size of their own applicant pool.

Given the very large and growing number of applications schools receive, the result of these realities is that the admissions process is now not simply competitive, but little more than a lottery for the majority of highly qualified applicants. Indeed, the top institutions oftten publicly state that many if not most of their applicants are well qualified academically.

So what are an applicant's chances? For those EA applicants with truly exceptional skills and diversity hooks, probably good. For the rest, no better than 3 percent on a good day. Another way of stating this is "next to zero."

I mention these conclusions because I see so many hopeful applicants on these CC threads ask for their chances and receive answers (guesses) based on their scores and grades. As much as these factors should be primary determinants, they are only a small part of the picture. For good reasons, many with lower stats will have preference depending on financial, diversity status, application track and other factors.

It seems the only way around this problem is to apply to more - and several less competitive - schools, and accept that your chance of admission to the top schools is far less than advertized. This situation is resulting in an application nuclear arms race that only a very few will win. I suggest that college counselors aggressively advise the vast majority of students that it is not worth,applying to the Ivies and other similarly competitive schools, except as a throwaway, and that in any event their chances of admission are virtually nil. Hopefully this will result in more realistic student expectations and a greater likelihood of satisfaction with the schools to which they are ultimately admitted.

We are in the midst of a vicious cycle in college admissions for the top 50 colleges and universities. Not sure how to inject some sanity and ease the stress of the process however. Something's got to give though if applications keep increasing 5-10% a year to these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two college-age students going through his second application cycle, I'd like to share a few thoughts about the state of the application/admission process at the most competitive schools. I've read and researched extensively and studied available information on public results sites and common data sets and have come to these conclusions. Many if not most of you have no doubt also done your research and rexognized these things. Note: I am a strong proponent of affirmative action in admissions; my two non-diverse students both are standout academic performers both in high school and college.

First, to all well qualified 2022 applicants, all performance and extracurricular variables being equal, the admissions process is now driven to a large extent by family financial and diversity factors. Many need-blind schools' admissions offices are aware of the fact that an applicant is seeking aid but not his financial circumstances, and you should not assume they ignore this information. And at need aware schools, your financial need will definitely affect your chance of admission.

The influence of financial consideations is also reflected in the greatly enhanced xhances of ED admission. As widely reported, AOs prefer applicants who commit to paying full freight regardless of the fin aid offer. Between 2015 and today, controllong for the size of an EA applicant pool, the chances of an applicant's EA admission have risen signoficantly as the market has realized this.

Diversity policies have also greatly affected the admissions process. Economically and ethnically non-diverse students today make up a minority of enrollees at many of the most highly ranked schools. This the number of slots available to these applicants and, hence, their chances of admission, are presumably less than half of those reflected on schools' websites and in ranking service's' listings. Obviously, the same is true to an even greater extent for ethnically and economically diverse applicants. Because most schools have policies that allocate slots along these lines, students-within-these-categories' chances are also affected by the size of their own applicant pool.

Given the very large and growing number of applications schools receive, the result of these realities is that the admissions process is now not simply competitive, but little more than a lottery for the majority of highly qualified applicants. Indeed, the top institutions oftten publicly state that many if not most of their applicants are well qualified academically.

So what are an applicant's chances? For those EA applicants with truly exceptional skills and diversity hooks, probably good. For the rest, no better than 3 percent on a good day. Another way of stating this is "next to zero."

I mention these conclusions because I see so many hopeful applicants on these CC threads ask for their chances and receive answers (guesses) based on their scores and grades. As much as these factors should be primary determinants, they are only a small part of the picture. For good reasons, many with lower stats will have preference depending on financial, diversity status, application track and other factors.

It seems the only way around this problem is to apply to more - and several less competitive - schools, and accept that your chance of admission to the top schools is far less than advertized. This situation is resulting in an application nuclear arms race that only a very few will win. I suggest that college counselors aggressively advise the vast majority of students that it is not worth,applying to the Ivies and other similarly competitive schools, except as a throwaway, and that in any event their chances of admission are virtually nil. Hopefully this will result in more realistic student expectations and a greater likelihood of satisfaction with the schools to which they are ultimately admitted.

Not to be rude but anybody that’s paying attention already knows this. When Stanford publishes a 5% admit rate we understand that when you subtract the URMs, the athletes, the low SES, the first gen college, the geographically diverse and all the other socially engineered special interest groups, you’d have to be an actual genius to be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see your points but IMO the high performing kid is between and rock and a hard spot as yield protection at the lower ranked schools is also strongly in play.

Totally agree that it’s particulary tough on the high performing kids who don’t have a hook. I think the only solution for many of them is to go to a lesser school, get good grades and transfer. My neighbor had a kid like this — brilliant but did not get into top school. Enrolled at a state school, got strIght A+s and easily transferred to a top school. The transfer prices is more sane. And SAT scores can be used for several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see your points but IMO the high performing kid is between and rock and a hard spot as yield protection at the lower ranked schools is also strongly in play.

Totally agree that it’s particulary tough on the high performing kids who don’t have a hook. I think the only solution for many of them is to go to a lesser school, get good grades and transfer. My neighbor had a kid like this — brilliant but did not get into top school. Enrolled at a state school, got strIght A+s and easily transferred to a top school. The transfer prices is more sane. And SAT scores can be used for several years.

What was wrong with the state school? Why couldn't they stay there?

[Anonymous]

Until more people realize that there are more than 10 schools at which their children can thrive, this will continue to be a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two college-age students going through his second application cycle, I'd like to share a few thoughts about the state of the application/admission process at the most competitive schools. I've read and researched extensively and studied available information on public results sites and common data sets and have come to these conclusions. Many if not most of you have no doubt also done your research and rexognized these things. Note: I am a strong proponent of affirmative action in admissions; my two non-diverse students both are standout academic performers both in high school and college.

First, to all well qualified 2022 applicants, all performance and extracurricular variables being equal, the admissions process is now driven to a large extent by family financial and diversity factors. Many need-blind schools' admissions offices are aware of the fact that an applicant is seeking aid but not his financial circumstances, and you should not assume they ignore this information. And at need aware schools, your financial need will definitely affect your chance of admission.

The influence of financial consideations is also reflected in the greatly enhanced xhances of ED admission. As widely reported, AOs prefer applicants who commit to paying full freight regardless of the fin aid offer. Between 2015 and today, controllong for the size of an EA applicant pool, the chances of an applicant's EA admission have risen signoficantly as the market has realized this.

Diversity policies have also greatly affected the admissions process. Economically and ethnically non-diverse students today make up a minority of enrollees at many of the most highly ranked schools. This the number of slots available to these applicants and, hence, their chances of admission, are presumably less than half of those reflected on schools' websites and in ranking service's' listings. Obviously, the same is true to an even greater extent for ethnically and economically diverse applicants. Because most schools have policies that allocate slots along these lines, students-within-these-categories' chances are also affected by the size of their own applicant pool.

Given the very large and growing number of applications schools receive, the result of these realities is that the admissions process is now not simply competitive, but little more than a lottery for the majority of highly qualified applicants. Indeed, the top institutions oftten publicly state that many if not most of their applicants are well qualified academically.

So what are an applicant's chances? For those EA applicants with truly exceptional skills and diversity hooks, probably good. For the rest, no better than 3 percent on a good day. Another way of stating this is "next to zero."

I mention these conclusions because I see so many hopeful applicants on these CC threads ask for their chances and receive answers (guesses) based on their scores and grades. As much as these factors should be primary determinants, they are only a small part of the picture. For good reasons, many with lower stats will have preference depending on financial, diversity status, application track and other factors.

It seems the only way around this problem is to apply to more - and several less competitive - schools, and accept that your chance of admission to the top schools is far less than advertized. This situation is resulting in an application nuclear arms race that only a very few will win. I suggest that college counselors aggressively advise the vast majority of students that it is not worth,applying to the Ivies and other similarly competitive schools, except as a throwaway, and that in any event their chances of admission are virtually nil. Hopefully this will result in more realistic student expectations and a greater likelihood of satisfaction with the schools to which they are ultimately admitted.

Not to be rude but anybody that’s paying attention already knows this. When Stanford publishes a 5% admit rate we understand that when you subtract the URMs, the athletes, the low SES, the first gen college, the geographically diverse and all the other socially engineered special interest groups, you’d have to be an actual genius to be admitted.

Or be a "presidential" scholar.

[Anonymous]

Funny play on words but mean

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Until more people realize that there are more than 10 schools at which their children can thrive, this will continue to be a problem.

https://hbr.org/2015/10/firms-are-wasting-millions-recruiting-on-only-a-few-campuses

The market is forcing kids - not the other way around

[Anonymous]

I won’t requote the long post above but I agree with all of it, including the support for affirmative action. For the last couple of years, I’ve used stats from Princeton’s “Welcome to the Clas of 20xx” press release to come up with ballpark estimates of how many unhooked U.S. kids (not athletes, nor legacy, nor URM, nor first gen, nor international) get in - it’s about 300, with a 50/50 gender split. So you’re gunning for about 1 of 150 spots vs. every other kid of your gender in the country. I’m not complaining, not saying it’s unfair, just saying it’s reality