Do unmotivated kids get into HGC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

Living with their mother and father. That's beneficial to all kids. More than any taxpayer-funded 7am to 6pm school program in the world. You simply cannot outsource parenting.

You're assuming they aren't living with their parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

And how did they not have access a couple of years ago?

I agree with PPs that the best way to close the achievement gap is not to water down the curriculum and artificially increase magnet numbers. That doesn't help any student. Provide more after school enrichment activities and tutoring for free, maybe even add more para-educators in those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

And how did they not have access a couple of years ago?

I agree with PPs that the best way to close the achievement gap is not to water down the curriculum and artificially increase magnet numbers. That doesn't help any student. Provide more after school enrichment activities and tutoring for free, maybe even add more para-educators in those schools.

so basically keep blacks and hispanics out of magnet programs??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

And how did they not have access a couple of years ago?

I agree with PPs that the best way to close the achievement gap is not to water down the curriculum and artificially increase magnet numbers. That doesn't help any student. Provide more after school enrichment activities and tutoring for free, maybe even add more para-educators in those schools.

Here is some reading for you: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/i...dyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Tutoring can help kids who are behind. Kids who are ahead have different needs. Not all black, Hispanic, and poor kids are behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

And how did they not have access a couple of years ago?

I agree with PPs that the best way to close the achievement gap is not to water down the curriculum and artificially increase magnet numbers. That doesn't help any student. Provide more after school enrichment activities and tutoring for free, maybe even add more para-educators in those schools.

so basically keep blacks and hispanics out of magnet programs??

No, magnet admission should be race-blind. No White/Asian student should be admitted just because he/she is white/asian. The same applies to black/latino.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No, magnet admission should be race-blind. No White/Asian student should be admitted just because he/she is white/asian. The same applies to black/latino.

Good news! MCPS already does not consider race/ethnicity as a factor in admissions. It would be illegal for MCPS to do so.

[Anonymous]

Whar is the evidence that the gifted URM students haven been overlooked in MCPS HGC and Magnet? Yes, there are very few of URM in the programs but URM also performed worse in all standarised test, MSA, PPARC, SAT, ACT, etc than their peers. Even in the top colleges, their SAT scores are way below other admitted students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whar is the evidence that the gifted URM students haven been overlooked in MCPS HGC and Magnet? Yes, there are very few of URM in the programs but URM also performed worse in all standarised test, MSA, PPARC, SAT, ACT, etc than their peers. Even in the top colleges, their SAT scores are way below other admitted students.

Here is some reading for you: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/i...dyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

And how did they not have access a couple of years ago?

I agree with PPs that the best way to close the achievement gap is not to water down the curriculum and artificially increase magnet numbers. That doesn't help any student. Provide more after school enrichment activities and tutoring for free, maybe even add more para-educators in those schools.

Here is some reading for you: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/i...dyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

Tutoring can help kids who are behind. Kids who are ahead have different needs. Not all black, Hispanic, and poor kids are behind.

If you are referring to the METIS report, here's what it says on pg 79 - your link doesn't work.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

- Work to address barriers to equitable access in the elementary center program by revising Board Policy IOA to broaden the definition of giftedness to focus on identifying students who are highly able from all backgrounds and implementing modifications to the identification process that have been developed in other districts and at the secondary and postsecondary levels, as discussed in the section on middle and high school magnets below.

"Broaden the definition of giftedness" IMO just means "lower the entrance bar". I'd like to know what how MCPS has defined "broaden the definition of giftedness".

No one cares if there are more URM in HGC as long as the standards are the same for everyone. Setting the standards artificially low to "broaden the definition of giftedness" does a disservice to all students.

How was the previous standards eliminating URM from HGC other than the lower income parents may not have been aware of the program? In such a case, it would've better just to test ALL kids, and let parents opt out of the testing if they choose. Why do they need to "broaden the definition of giftedness" to increase URM participation? The answer is obvious. It is because many of them don't score well on standardized tests. I'm not saying that should be the ONLY thing they look at. Clearly, there are some kids who don't do well on such tests but are really smart. Then the other factor should be how they do in class, and if you are not participating and showing in your work that you are "gifted" then how else do you determine that a child is "gifted"? They really should look at both.

And I have no dog in this fight. I had one DC go through HGC and another who didn't make it, which is fine. I don't need them to lower the standards just so that my DC could've gotten in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

What special programs bright kids who are URM don't have access to but white and Asian kids do? Do you mean they are underrepresented in the HGCs? How do you suppose we increase their representation then? Group specific norms as that notorious choice report recommended?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with this PP. That's what MCPS seems to be doing. And, I also agree that it would be more beneficial to the URM population to offer more resources such as smaller class sizes, and additional support versus pushing those students into the HGCs or pushing them into Compacted Math (as is being done at some schools, where every student ends up in CM).

You know what's beneficial to bright kids who are Hispanic/poor/black? Having the same access to MCPS special programs as bright kids who aren't.

What special programs bright kids who are URM don't have access to but white and Asian kids do? Do you mean they are underrepresented in the HGCs? How do you suppose we increase their representation then? Group specific norms as that notorious choice report recommended?

Well, we can try the new processes that MCPS is trying to reduce barriers to entry, and see how that works out.

http://www.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/ALXLAU4F2C1A/$file/Choice%20Study%20Update.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And I have no dog in this fight. I had one DC go through HGC and another who didn't make it, which is fine. I don't need them to lower the standards just so that my DC could've gotten in.

There is no evidence that anybody is lowering standards.

[Anonymous]

Being unmotivated in a non-gifted curriculum is essentially the definition of being gifted. So all of you suggesting that an unmotivated child shouldn't get into an HGC are essentially suggesting that the HGCs should be for high-achieving kids rather than gifted kids. Why don't we just go ahead an rename them "Centers for Highly Motivated for Not Gifted Kids" then? Oh, you don't like that name because you want to think your kids are gifted when they're really not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being unmotivated in a non-gifted curriculum is essentially the definition of being gifted. So all of you suggesting that an unmotivated child shouldn't get into an HGC are essentially suggesting that the HGCs should be for high-achieving kids rather than gifted kids. Why don't we just go ahead an rename them "Centers for Highly Motivated for Not Gifted Kids" then? Oh, you don't like that name because you want to think your kids are gifted when they're really not?

+1, lol--and that is why Fairfax has AAP (Advanced Academic [i]Programs)