Take a knee during Pledge of Allegiance in VA Elementary school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

Actually the opposite. They are honoring the ideal our military fights for, like freedom of speech.

Everybody that served(s) in the military in my family supports the peaceful protest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is so sad to me. Some people truly do not give a shit about our country.

+1 im also amazed at the lack of understanding of our most basic Constitutional rights. Or the inequities that run throughout our society. Or the fact that our military fights for rights, not a flag or a song.

+1 it is sad that people are not educated about the injustices on lesser represented communities. If people gave a shit about our country they would stop these injustices.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

Also, we stand out of pride for ourselves. Not kneeling or bowimg to some monarch or supreme leader. We stand as equals with our heads held high, not cowing on the ground as someone worth less than others.

The absence of equality is exactly what these protests are about. And freedom of speech, explicitly including political protest, is one of the most bedrock of our ideals. It's literally the very first item in the Bill of Rights. I find the protesters a lot more patriotic than those who suggest we should mindlessly swallow jingoistic slogans and behaviors and direct vitriol at those who are working to make the country better, to better reflect our ideals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the stupidest "protest" trend I have ever seen. I have zero problems with someone not saying the pledge. But they must truly be idiots if they think kneeling, a sign of deference and respect, connotes civil disobedience. I would just think a person kneeling was extra-patriotic. GIANT FAIL.

I know, right? I see "kneel", I think "genuflect to our dear leader".

The only person in this whole mess who has shown any courage or conviction is the Pittsburgh Steelers Army Ranger who came out on his own and was the lone player on his team on the field for the national anthem. The rest are sheeple and cowards.

He's one of a very few veterans in the NFL. Serving in the military tends to be a good indicator of love of country. The people disrespecting the Flag & Country are able to do so thanks to the sacrifice of a few.

I think the players should be allowed to disrespect the Flag/Country on their time, it's their right, on their own time. But in a league where you can be fined $15,000 for mismatched socks or wearing the wrong brand of shoes they should certainly be fined/fired for doing it in uniform.

...and personally I have the right to burn their jerseys too....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

Also, we stand out of pride for ourselves. Not kneeling or bowimg to some monarch or supreme leader. We stand as equals with our heads held high, not cowing on the ground as someone worth less than others.

The absence of equality is exactly what these protests are about. And freedom of speech, explicitly including political protest, is one of the most bedrock of our ideals. It's literally the very first item in the Bill of Rights. I find the protesters a lot more patriotic than those who suggest we should mindlessly swallow jingoistic slogans and behaviors and direct vitriol at those who are working to make the country better, to better reflect our ideals.

^^ P.S. my family is full of veterans, going back to the Revolutionary War. All support a clear-eyed view of the country and the right to peaceful protest over empty flag-waving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

Also, we stand out of pride for ourselves. Not kneeling or bowimg to some monarch or supreme leader. We stand as equals with our heads held high, not cowing on the ground as someone worth less than others.

The protest arose because we are not living up to the ideals represented by the flag, those same ideals "we aspire to and fight for." The protest is meaningful precisely because of the potency of the flag imagery. It is not insulting the ideals but demanding that we work harder to achieve them.

I agree that the protest is not about Trump, or it wasn't originally. Maybe after this weekend it is, since he insists on inflaming passions and dividing people to feed red meat to his base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the stupidest "protest" trend I have ever seen. I have zero problems with someone not saying the pledge. But they must truly be idiots if they think kneeling, a sign of deference and respect, connotes civil disobedience. I would just think a person kneeling was extra-patriotic. GIANT FAIL.

I know, right? I see "kneel", I think "genuflect to our dear leader".

The only person in this whole mess who has shown any courage or conviction is the Pittsburgh Steelers Army Ranger who came out on his own and was the lone player on his team on the field for the national anthem. The rest are sheeple and cowards.

He's one of a very few veterans in the NFL. Serving in the military tends to be a good indicator of love of country. The people disrespecting the Flag & Country are able to do so thanks to the sacrifice of a few.

I think the players should be allowed to disrespect the Flag/Country on their time, it's their right, on their own time. But in a league where you can be fined $15,000 for mismatched socks or wearing the wrong brand of shoes they should certainly be fined/fired for doing it in uniform.

...and personally I have the right to burn their jerseys too....

I just bought an Alejandro Villanueva jersey I'll wear with pride. True hero.

[Anonymous]

Do kids in all NoVA schools recite the pledge of allegiance every morning? Does the school system decide? Each school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you be supportive if the teacher took a knee?

No.

While I agree it is not appropriate for a public employee to take the knee in the course of doing his or her job (or really to discuss personal political opinions in the course of performing their public job duties), I would hope the first poster here was not trying to create an equivalence between a student's right to protest and a teacher's role as a public employee (versus as a private citizen).

I would whole-heartedly endorse either acting as a private citizen to express their concerns in a lawful way.

For students, that could involve taking the knee or staying seated during the pledge. For a teacher, that could involve staying seated at a game that they attended as a private cititzen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

The protest arose because we are not living up to the ideals represented by the flag, those same ideals "we aspire to and fight for." The protest is meaningful precisely because of the potency of the flag imagery. It is not insulting the ideals but demanding that we work harder to achieve them.

I agree that the protest is not about Trump, or it wasn't originally. Maybe after this weekend it is, since he insists on inflaming passions and dividing people to feed red meat to his base.

My father and brother were Veterans, and my brother died for his country. I believe the flag is an important symbol of American freedom, liberty, and those who have defended those ideals. I also believe it is legitimate to point out that those ideals are not being honored for many.

NPR did a story that many people who disagree with the football players' protests don't believe there is inequality in America. I think this is really the crux of the problem and why NFL players began the protest to begin with: to emphasize that our nation has not fulfilled those ideals for all Americans and to urge us all to strive for that better America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you be supportive if the teacher took a knee?

No.

While I agree it is not appropriate for a public employee to take the knee in the course of doing his or her job (or really to discuss personal political opinions in the course of performing their public job duties), I would hope the first poster here was not trying to create an equivalence between a student's right to protest and a teacher's role as a public employee (versus as a private citizen).

I would whole-heartedly endorse either acting as a private citizen to express their concerns in a lawful way.

For students, that could involve taking the knee or staying seated during the pledge. For a teacher, that could involve staying seated at a game that they attended as a private cititzen.

LOL I believe PP did see both roles as entirely equivalent.

[Anonymous]

I am reading this thread with some dismay. I'm surprised at the posters who don't believe there is still racism in America and in the world.

Take Lebron James--he's making more money than most of us will ever make, he's considered a superior athlete and a talented individual admired by many. His house is probably in a "very secure" neighborhood. Yet, even he had someone spraypaint the N-word on his front gate.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/31/sport/lebron-james-racist-graffiti-incident/index.html

I'm not sure that white Americans can picture what it's like to have words spraypainted on their homes? I'm a white woman--I can't picture coming home to "c*nt" spraypainted on my home? These things do not generally happen to most white Americans, even poor ones, let alone wealthy ones.

I think there are many many other instances of these kinds of insults. Can white Americans picture being afraid of being shot by police officers who might stop you for a speeding ticket? Can white Americans picture being unwelcome because your neighbors are convinced their house will depreciate in value because you B.O.U.G.H.T. a home at market value?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

Also, we stand out of pride for ourselves. Not kneeling or bowimg to some monarch or supreme leader. We stand as equals with our heads held high, not cowing on the ground as someone worth less than others.

They bleed on the battlefield so that citizens can speak out, and for you to be able to disagree with them. Cause see, if the right of these people to kneel is removed, So is your right to speak out against it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am reading this thread with some dismay. I'm surprised at the posters who don't believe there is still racism in America and in the world.

Take Lebron James--he's making more money than most of us will ever make, he's considered a superior athlete and a talented individual admired by many. His house is probably in a "very secure" neighborhood. Yet, even he had someone spraypaint the N-word on his front gate.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/31/sport/lebron-james-racist-graffiti-incident/index.html

I'm not sure that white Americans can picture what it's like to have words spraypainted on their homes? I'm a white woman--I can't picture coming home to "c*nt" spraypainted on my home? These things do not generally happen to most white Americans, even poor ones, let alone wealthy ones.

I think there are many many other instances of these kinds of insults. Can white Americans picture being afraid of being shot by police officers who might stop you for a speeding ticket? Can white Americans picture being unwelcome because your neighbors are convinced their house will depreciate in value because you B.O.U.G.H.T. a home at market value?

Where did you grow up? Pleasantville?

I am not denying racism. I am saying that the lives of people on DCUM are not as idyllic as yours seems to be.

Although I disagree with NFL players kneeling, I am ready to defend their right to do so. However, I don't think elementary school is necessarily the right place to start that conversation, and I certainly do not think elementary school teachers should protest while teaching.

[Anonymous]

They have the right to kneel--but I have the right to disapprove and accuse them of being ungrateful.