why do people prefer AP schools to IB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've been looking in Loudoun and it seems like all the schools there have AP, not IB.

It does suggest that IB was kind of a "fad" in the 1990s since so many of the schools in Loudoun were built more recently. Perhaps they looked at IB in Fairfax and decided it wasn't a great idea?

1. IB is much more expensive for the school system than AP. More staffing is required, more admin costs, etc.
2. IB was brought into the schools and specifically targeted mostly lower scoring schools. Robinson and Woodson were also given IB (not sure what the story was on that) but Woodson managed to get out of it.
3. Robinson is an extremely large school and, from what I understand, also offers AP classes.
4. IB was put into schools like South Lakes, Stuart, etc, in the hopes of attracted more affluent pupil placement to those schools. It may have worked at Marshall, but did not work anywhere else that I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've been looking in Loudoun and it seems like all the schools there have AP, not IB.

It does suggest that IB was kind of a "fad" in the 1990s since so many of the schools in Loudoun were built more recently. Perhaps they looked at IB in Fairfax and decided it wasn't a great idea?

1. IB is much more expensive for the school system than AP. More staffing is required, more admin costs, etc.
2. IB was brought into the schools and specifically targeted mostly lower scoring schools. Robinson and Woodson were also given IB (not sure what the story was on that) but Woodson managed to get out of it.
3. Robinson is an extremely large school and, from what I understand, also offers AP classes.
4. IB was put into schools like South Lakes, Stuart, etc, in the hopes of attracted more affluent pupil placement to those schools. It may have worked at Marshall, but did not work anywhere else that I can tell.

So I guess Loudoun decided it wasn't worth the expense? Loudoun has the highest household incomes in the country. If they thought IB was a good idea, they could certainly afford it.

[Anonymous]

So I guess Loudoun decided it wasn't worth the expense? Loudoun has the highest household incomes in the country. If they thought IB was a good idea, they could certainly afford it.

Most families seem to prefer AP. Also, please consider this: we have a mobile society. Far more American schools offer AP than IB. What happens when a teen who has been in an AP program transfers to an IB school?

And, while Loudoun might be quite wealthy, I'm sure they consider value for expense. Hands down, AP wins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So I guess Loudoun decided it wasn't worth the expense? Loudoun has the highest household incomes in the country. If they thought IB was a good idea, they could certainly afford it.

Most families seem to prefer AP. Also, please consider this: we have a mobile society. Far more American schools offer AP than IB. What happens when a teen who has been in an AP program transfers to an IB school?

And, while Loudoun might be quite wealthy, I'm sure they consider value for expense. Hands down, AP wins.

PP, the bigger issue in Loudoun is that it's kind of a cluster in terms of schools and resources. With the massive population growth, the county spends a substantial sum on building schools (most of which are smaller than FCPS) in order to meet the demands of population growth. The county actually spends less on direct instruction and academic programs because it doesn't have the means to continue to build schools to meet the population growth and do expensive programs. IB is an example. The AAP program is another. Loudoun just doesn't have the resources to cover everything.

Another wrinkle and bigger reason why it's a cluster is that its population also isn't supportive of bonds or tax increases specifically for the schools. The county's politicians definitely seem in the pocket of developers, so the money that exists go to building schools (which is needed but not necessarily handled on the most efficient scale--see, small schools).

Fairfax has more resources because it's essentially built out save for a handful of elementary schools and expanding capacity here or there (or building the new high school in Herndon). It's sort of apples to oranges.

Back on topic. One thing I've found interesting is that in IB schools like Robinson is that its students who sign up for the diploma have high pass rates (in the 80's percentile I think) and that nearly 25 percent of the class is signed up for the diploma. That's quite large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So I guess Loudoun decided it wasn't worth the expense? Loudoun has the highest household incomes in the country. If they thought IB was a good idea, they could certainly afford it.

Most families seem to prefer AP. Also, please consider this: we have a mobile society. Far more American schools offer AP than IB. What happens when a teen who has been in an AP program transfers to an IB school?

And, while Loudoun might be quite wealthy, I'm sure they consider value for expense. Hands down, AP wins.

PP, the bigger issue in Loudoun is that it's kind of a cluster in terms of schools and resources. With the massive population growth, the county spends a substantial sum on building schools (most of which are smaller than FCPS) in order to meet the demands of population growth. The county actually spends less on direct instruction and academic programs because it doesn't have the means to continue to build schools to meet the population growth and do expensive programs. IB is an example. The AAP program is another. Loudoun just doesn't have the resources to cover everything.

Another wrinkle and bigger reason why it's a cluster is that its population also isn't supportive of bonds or tax increases specifically for the schools. The county's politicians definitely seem in the pocket of developers, so the money that exists go to building schools (which is needed but not necessarily handled on the most efficient scale--see, small schools).

Fairfax has more resources because it's essentially built out save for a handful of elementary schools and expanding capacity here or there (or building the new high school in Herndon). It's sort of apples to oranges.

Back on topic. One thing I've found interesting is that in IB schools like Robinson is that its students who sign up for the diploma have high pass rates (in the 80's percentile I think) and that nearly 25 percent of the class is signed up for the diploma. That's quite large.

I disagree. They have the resources, but choose to operate more efficiently and not waste money on IB. They only need to look across the border to see what a waste of money it's been in Fairfax.

If 20% of the seniors at Robinson get IB diplomas, that's 80% of the students at a high-SES school graduating with inferior credentials. What a shame. It's no wonder there are so many pupil placements to Lake Braddock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So I guess Loudoun decided it wasn't worth the expense? Loudoun has the highest household incomes in the country. If they thought IB was a good idea, they could certainly afford it.

Most families seem to prefer AP. Also, please consider this: we have a mobile society. Far more American schools offer AP than IB. What happens when a teen who has been in an AP program transfers to an IB school?

And, while Loudoun might be quite wealthy, I'm sure they consider value for expense. Hands down, AP wins.

+1. We're military and we bought in Lake Braddock rather than Robinson for this reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So I guess Loudoun decided it wasn't worth the expense? Loudoun has the highest household incomes in the country. If they thought IB was a good idea, they could certainly afford it.

Most families seem to prefer AP. Also, please consider this: we have a mobile society. Far more American schools offer AP than IB. What happens when a teen who has been in an AP program transfers to an IB school?

And, while Loudoun might be quite wealthy, I'm sure they consider value for expense. Hands down, AP wins.

PP, the bigger issue in Loudoun is that it's kind of a cluster in terms of schools and resources. With the massive population growth, the county spends a substantial sum on building schools (most of which are smaller than FCPS) in order to meet the demands of population growth. The county actually spends less on direct instruction and academic programs because it doesn't have the means to continue to build schools to meet the population growth and do expensive programs. IB is an example. The AAP program is another. Loudoun just doesn't have the resources to cover everything.

Another wrinkle and bigger reason why it's a cluster is that its population also isn't supportive of bonds or tax increases specifically for the schools. The county's politicians definitely seem in the pocket of developers, so the money that exists go to building schools (which is needed but not necessarily handled on the most efficient scale--see, small schools).

Fairfax has more resources because it's essentially built out save for a handful of elementary schools and expanding capacity here or there (or building the new high school in Herndon). It's sort of apples to oranges.

Back on topic. One thing I've found interesting is that in IB schools like Robinson is that its students who sign up for the diploma have high pass rates (in the 80's percentile I think) and that nearly 25 percent of the class is signed up for the diploma. That's quite large.

I disagree. They have the resources, but choose to operate more efficiently and not waste money on IB. They only need to look across the border to see what a waste of money it's been in Fairfax.

If 20% of the seniors at Robinson get IB diplomas, that's 80% of the students at a high-SES school graduating with inferior credentials. What a shame. It's no wonder there are so many pupil placements to Lake Braddock.

PP, 80 percent of studies in Woodson aren't walking out the door with a full plate of AP courses. It's probably about the same as Robinson.

Considering how challenging the diploma is and how low the completion rate versus attempt rate, it's impressive.

You clearly haven't spent a lot of time in LCPS. It's capacity issues and resource issues are a well-known thing. I have a friend who can't send her kid to the neighborhood K because it's full. Her DD is bused across Ashburn to a school with capacity. Here's the kicker, when her son starts K in two years, there's no guarantee that he will get to go to the neighborhood school OR the random school her DD was assigned. If the random school is full and the neighborhood school is full, LCPS reassigns the student to the closest one with space. Craziness.

Anyway, these programs are advanced studies programs. You shouldn't expect 100 percent participation. It's like saying 100 percent of students who are well off should be in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So I guess Loudoun decided it wasn't worth the expense? Loudoun has the highest household incomes in the country. If they thought IB was a good idea, they could certainly afford it.

Most families seem to prefer AP. Also, please consider this: we have a mobile society. Far more American schools offer AP than IB. What happens when a teen who has been in an AP program transfers to an IB school?

And, while Loudoun might be quite wealthy, I'm sure they consider value for expense. Hands down, AP wins.

PP, the bigger issue in Loudoun is that it's kind of a cluster in terms of schools and resources. With the massive population growth, the county spends a substantial sum on building schools (most of which are smaller than FCPS) in order to meet the demands of population growth. The county actually spends less on direct instruction and academic programs because it doesn't have the means to continue to build schools to meet the population growth and do expensive programs. IB is an example. The AAP program is another. Loudoun just doesn't have the resources to cover everything.

Another wrinkle and bigger reason why it's a cluster is that its population also isn't supportive of bonds or tax increases specifically for the schools. The county's politicians definitely seem in the pocket of developers, so the money that exists go to building schools (which is needed but not necessarily handled on the most efficient scale--see, small schools).

Fairfax has more resources because it's essentially built out save for a handful of elementary schools and expanding capacity here or there (or building the new high school in Herndon). It's sort of apples to oranges.

Back on topic. One thing I've found interesting is that in IB schools like Robinson is that its students who sign up for the diploma have high pass rates (in the 80's percentile I think) and that nearly 25 percent of the class is signed up for the diploma. That's quite large.

I disagree. They have the resources, but choose to operate more efficiently and not waste money on IB. They only need to look across the border to see what a waste of money it's been in Fairfax.

If 20% of the seniors at Robinson get IB diplomas, that's 80% of the students at a high-SES school graduating with inferior credentials. What a shame. It's no wonder there are so many pupil placements to Lake Braddock.

PP, 80 percent of studies in Woodson aren't walking out the door with a full plate of AP courses. It's probably about the same as Robinson.

Considering how challenging the diploma is and how low the completion rate versus attempt rate, it's impressive.

You clearly haven't spent a lot of time in LCPS. It's capacity issues and resource issues are a well-known thing. I have a friend who can't send her kid to the neighborhood K because it's full. Her DD is bused across Ashburn to a school with capacity. Here's the kicker, when her son starts K in two years, there's no guarantee that he will get to go to the neighborhood school OR the random school her DD was assigned. If the random school is full and the neighborhood school is full, LCPS reassigns the student to the closest one with space. Craziness.

Anyway, these programs are advanced studies programs. You shouldn't expect 100 percent participation. It's like saying 100 percent of students who are well off should be in AAP.

A higher percentage of Woodson students graduate haven taken a substantial number of AP courses; none are slapped with a label like "non-IB diploma candidate" at an IB school. AP wins.

Loudoun residents collectively decide how much they want to spend on schools and how they want that money spent. Clearly, they have decided, through their elected officials, that IB isn't something they want, whereas they are spending a substantial amount of money to expand AOS, which will continue to offer AP courses.

[Anonymous]

We're in Fairfax now and wish FCPS spent money on new facilities like LCPS. We really need a new high school in the western part of the county. I don't understand why they spend extra money on IB programs when people go out of their way to avoid those schools.

[Anonymous]

PP - you don't get out much and practice your critical thinking skills. Your assumptions and conclusions are ignorant and ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're in Fairfax now and wish FCPS spent money on new facilities like LCPS. We really need a new high school in the western part of the county. I don't understand why they spend extra money on IB programs when people go out of their way to avoid those schools.

What does IB cost? How do you find out when people go out of their way to avoid those schools?

[Anonymous]

Has anyone done a cost analysis of the #of AP classes taken FCPS wide per dollar, vs #of IB classes per dollar spent?
The # of students taking IB classes/dollar vs #of students taking AP classes/dollar?

I suspect the results would be impressive in favor of AP.

And, if this has been done, does anyone have the results?
And, if it has not been done, that is pretty poor stewardship of our funds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in Fairfax now and wish FCPS spent money on new facilities like LCPS. We really need a new high school in the western part of the county. I don't understand why they spend extra money on IB programs when people go out of their way to avoid those schools.

What does IB cost? How do you find out when people go out of their way to avoid those schools?

I know we were promised a new AP high in the Oak Hill/Floris area years ago. Then the county moved a bunch of neighborhoods to South Lakes instead against their will to prop up that school because people did NOT want IB and were avoiding it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone done a cost analysis of the #of AP classes taken FCPS wide per dollar, vs #of IB classes per dollar spent?
The # of students taking IB classes/dollar vs #of students taking AP classes/dollar?

I suspect the results would be impressive in favor of AP.

And, if this has been done, does anyone have the results?
And, if it has not been done, that is pretty poor stewardship of our funds.

+1000,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone done a cost analysis of the #of AP classes taken FCPS wide per dollar, vs #of IB classes per dollar spent?
The # of students taking IB classes/dollar vs #of students taking AP classes/dollar?

I suspect the results would be impressive in favor of AP.

And, if this has been done, does anyone have the results?
And, if it has not been done, that is pretty poor stewardship of our funds.

+1000