DD is half Asian, half white. Is one better to declare for college applications?

[Anonymous]

How admissions works is Harvard compares the Asian American applicant against other Asian American applicants, not to the rest of the application pool. Harvard will have an informal quota for the % of the incoming class reserved for Asian Americans. They do the same with African Americans and Hispanics, as well as international students. In short, African American applicants are not competing against Asian American applicants for the same spots. The one pool of applicants that is not designated as a separate group are white applicants, who all go into the "regular" pile unless they have a legacy or sports hook. But the applicants within that pile are still competing against each other for the remaining slots.

The uncomfortable truth is that the average SAT scores for Asian American applicants at schools like Harvard is higher than the average SATs for white students, and substantially higher than for African American students. This is a fact. A simple, undeniable fact. While SATs are not everything, it still strongly suggests that Asian American applicants are held to higher standards than any other applicant groups at Harvard. It's not a deliberate tactic on Harvard's attempt, it's a reflection that Harvard has informally decided that X% of the incoming class will be Asian American, there are Y numbers of Asian American applicants, so by default, the standards are higher. Likewise, Harvard has decided that X% of the class will be African American, there are Y numbers of African American applicants, and because the pool of African American applicants is much smaller the competition for admissions is less competitive and standards as measured by SAT scores are lower (relatively speaking, of course).

Harvard et al have decided that they prioritize and value a certain demographic makeup in their student body over true meritocracy, and this is the way it's practiced. But it does underscore a certain hypocrisy of the modern liberal mindset that in order to achieve the ideal student population they have to substantially discriminate against a minority group and meritocracy is, in reality, not a priority but something that only receives lip service in contrary to the general liberal ideas most of the school and its administrators espouse.

As a private institution Harvard can do what it wants to do but I'd respect them more if they were honest about these discriminations.

[Anonymous]

if colleges dropped their racist quotas, the true makeup of every top school would mimic tj. I am a minority and hope Trump bans race based information and applications for college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not choose Asian as they are held to the highest standards. Can you choose mixed without providing further details or simply not answer?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This makes me so incredibly sad. I'm mixed race/AA and have yet to "enjoy" any of the school or employment advantages that people think minorities get (but don't deserve). Instead, I worked my rear off to show guidance counselors that I was college material, to impress professors who looked right past my raised hand, and to prove to hiring committes that I was the best fit. And you folks are seriously worried about how to hide your kids are half-Asian...
I have seen it all.

Can you explain your post better because it comes off pretty terrible.

I am a Vietnamese-American woman. My dad was killed by the Communists in Vietnam and my mom came here as a refugee. She raised her kids as a single mom and we grew up poor. I also worked my rear off to get into college and pay for college. And yet, my kids are at a disadvantage when they apply to college. Does that seem fair to you?

I went to a grad school that had a support program for 'Minority' students. However, the only 'minorities' included in this program were Latino and AA students. Asians were not considered. The minority students were allowed to atten a fully paid program before school started to get them acclimated to the school. They were given scholarships to attend. My best friend attended this and reaped the benefits. She is Cuban and grew up wealthy, attending a private Catholic school.

The system is ridiculous. It's completely fair that parents want to take advantage of any opportunity. And it is well-known that Asians are held to higher standards when it comes to college admissions. Why would you feel that your AA kids deserve more than my Vietnamese kids? Sorry, but I just don't see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a laugh! Posters have no problem checking the AA box for admission but would not literally trade places with the very people that you are claiming to check off. How sick. How Trumpian.

What does that even mean? Trade places with who? How do you 'trade places'?

How is this any different than Obama being half white and being labeled the first Black president?

If a kid is half White and half Asian, he can choose either for the application. It's not lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This makes me so incredibly sad. I'm mixed race/AA and have yet to "enjoy" any of the school or employment advantages that people think minorities get (but don't deserve). Instead, I worked my rear off to show guidance counselors that I was college material, to impress professors who looked right past my raised hand, and to prove to hiring committes that I was the best fit. And you folks are seriously worried about how to hide your kids are half-Asian...
I have seen it all.

Not saying it's not tough to be AA, but stats do show that the system is stacked against asians for colleges. You can't deny that AA (and whites) don't have to score as high as Asians to get into top schools.

But grades and test scores are only one part of the application process. Putting too much time and effort into grades and scores can have the effect of taking away time for other experiences that help a kid to grow and develop as a person.

Tell that to the Trump administration and those who complain about how a black student doesn't have to score as high as a white student to get in. This argument of "holistic" approaches only seems to be used when talking about white vs asian, but some white people don't want to apply the same holistic approach to black/hispanic.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This makes me so incredibly sad. I'm mixed race/AA and have yet to "enjoy" any of the school or employment advantages that people think minorities get (but don't deserve). Instead, I worked my rear off to show guidance counselors that I was college material, to impress professors who looked right past my raised hand, and to prove to hiring committes that I was the best fit. And you folks are seriously worried about how to hide your kids are half-Asian...
I have seen it all.

Not saying it's not tough to be AA, but stats do show that the system is stacked against asians for colleges. You can't deny that AA (and whites) don't have to score as high as Asians to get into top schools.

But grades and test scores are only one part of the application process. Putting too much time and effort into grades and scores can have the effect of taking away time for other experiences that help a kid to grow and develop as a person.

You know the best way to be prepared for the SAT is being a reader of good books. Sounds like a habit that would serve well for a lifetime of growth and development. And learning to dig deep and truly understand your academic topics doesn't strike me as shabby either. Nor do these activities preclude one from having the time for music, sports, art and friends. Your statement sounds defensive.

Sorry, it looks like there's a misunderstanding of the quote above. The point is that any study that only looks at grades and test scores is a study that is only looking at part of the total equation. An applicant to a top college needs to present with a combination of academic and non-academic qualifications. A study that only looks at academics is missing an important part of the application.

There are schools that look at only grades and test scores, but they tend to be the second tier schools, which are most likely not the ones being discussed here. The top colleges are looking for students who are highly accomplished in both academic and non-academic pursuits. A kid who is relying solely on grades and test scores, no matter how high those numbers are, will end up missing out if she is not also highly accomplished in a non-academic interest or two. Top colleges are looking for kids who can do a lot of different things really well at the same time and who will participate in and contribute to the life of the community on campus.

Yes, and the biggest people complaining about this are white applicants. They feel that only test scores and grades should be looked at to keep black and Latino applicants out of colleges, but they think that too much value is placed on Asian candidates test scores and grades that keep them out of colleges. It's an amazing hypocrisy that white students feel aggrieved at both ends for opposite reasons. Basically they want preferential treatment only where it benefits them.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How admissions works is Harvard compares the Asian American applicant against other Asian American applicants, not to the rest of the application pool. Harvard will have an informal quota for the % of the incoming class reserved for Asian Americans. They do the same with African Americans and Hispanics, as well as international students. In short, African American applicants are not competing against Asian American applicants for the same spots. The one pool of applicants that is not designated as a separate group are white applicants, who all go into the "regular" pile unless they have a legacy or sports hook. But the applicants within that pile are still competing against each other for the remaining slots.

The uncomfortable truth is that the average SAT scores for Asian American applicants at schools like Harvard is higher than the average SATs for white students, and substantially higher than for African American students. This is a fact. A simple, undeniable fact. While SATs are not everything, it still strongly suggests that Asian American applicants are held to higher standards than any other applicant groups at Harvard. It's not a deliberate tactic on Harvard's attempt, it's a reflection that Harvard has informally decided that X% of the incoming class will be Asian American, there are Y numbers of Asian American applicants, so by default, the standards are higher. Likewise, Harvard has decided that X% of the class will be African American, there are Y numbers of African American applicants, and because the pool of African American applicants is much smaller the competition for admissions is less competitive and standards as measured by SAT scores are lower (relatively speaking, of course).

Harvard et al have decided that they prioritize and value a certain demographic makeup in their student body over true meritocracy, and this is the way it's practiced. But it does underscore a certain hypocrisy of the modern liberal mindset that in order to achieve the ideal student population they have to substantially discriminate against a minority group and meritocracy is, in reality, not a priority but something that only receives lip service in contrary to the general liberal ideas most of the school and its administrators espouse.

As a private institution Harvard can do what it wants to do but I'd respect them more if they were honest about these discriminations.

Irony, trying to be inclusive and have a segment of asians, blacks, hispanics, and whites to have a well-rounded student body is discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Yet another reason why it's important to do a holistic approach than just look at scores. Many of the scores are inflated.

"Those enrolled in private and suburban public high schools are being awarded higher grades—critical in the competition for college admission—than their urban public school counterparts with no less talent or potential, new research shows. . . . These findings are troubling, but not surprising, said Richard Weissbourd, the director of the Human Development and Psychology program at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. 'To be attractive to parents,” private schools in particular, Weissbourd said, “need to be able to tout how many of their students went to selective colleges. So they’re incentivized to give better grades.' The same concern about college admission drives parents of students in suburban schools to pressure principals and teachers, he said. 'It becomes very high maintenance for schools to deal with aggressive parents. So that can also push grades up.'"

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/suburban-grade-inflation/536595/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yet another reason why it's important to do a holistic approach than just look at scores. Many of the scores are inflated.

"Those enrolled in private and suburban public high schools are being awarded higher grades—critical in the competition for college admission—than their urban public school counterparts with no less talent or potential, new research shows. . . . These findings are troubling, but not surprising, said Richard Weissbourd, the director of the Human Development and Psychology program at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. 'To be attractive to parents,” private schools in particular, Weissbourd said, “need to be able to tout how many of their students went to selective colleges. So they’re incentivized to give better grades.' The same concern about college admission drives parents of students in suburban schools to pressure principals and teachers, he said. 'It becomes very high maintenance for schools to deal with aggressive parents. So that can also push grades up.'"

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/suburban-grade-inflation/536595/

Those who benefit the most from the above findings are white students since they make up most of the private school student populations. In addition, white parents in suburban public schools are the ones pressuring teachers for higher grades not other groups. So white students benefit most from the "grade inflation" and Asian students have to show even higher gpas compared to white students.

[Anonymous]

Those who are unhappy with present admissions criteria at top colleges: would you advocate for a change to a process that looks solely at test scores and grades/class rank? Are you asking schools to drop the practice of considering outside activities, essays, recommendations, interviews?

I'd like to hear suggestions to change the policies to be more acceptable to those who find present practices unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Look at all the above but drop comparing candidates within racial and legacy buckets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who are unhappy with present admissions criteria at top colleges: would you advocate for a change to a process that looks solely at test scores and grades/class rank? Are you asking schools to drop the practice of considering outside activities, essays, recommendations, interviews?

I'd like to hear suggestions to change the policies to be more acceptable to those who find present practices unacceptable.

Look at all the above but drop comparing candidates within racial and legacy.

Thanks for responding. How would we check to know it's being done in the preferred way?

Interested in suggestions from others, also.

[Anonymous]

Imagine being half Jewish, half Asian. Hated by bigots everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who are unhappy with present admissions criteria at top colleges: would you advocate for a change to a process that looks solely at test scores and grades/class rank? Are you asking schools to drop the practice of considering outside activities, essays, recommendations, interviews?

I'd like to hear suggestions to change the policies to be more acceptable to those who find present practices unacceptable.

Look at all the above but drop comparing candidates within racial and legacy.

Thanks for responding. How would we check to know it's being done in the preferred way?

Interested in suggestions from others, also.

Make it a matter of law/policy as they did in California to be eligible for government funding. Every research school cares about that.