how to address the under enrollment at Brookland Middle School

[Anonymous]

Yes. Deal has one of the biggest achievement gaps in the city - race, econ disadvantaged, special needs and at risk.

And it isn't because the white kids are any farther ahead of their peers in the rest of the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Deal has one of the biggest achievement gaps in the city - race, econ disadvantaged, special needs and at risk.

And it isn't because the white kids are any farther ahead of their peers in the rest of the city.

So achievement gaps will exist no matter how diverse the school? Then why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc. it won't make the AA, econ disadvantaged, Sp Needs and at risk perform any better by being with White kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Deal has one of the biggest achievement gaps in the city - race, econ disadvantaged, special needs and at risk.

And it isn't because the white kids are any farther ahead of their peers in the rest of the city.

So achievement gaps will exist no matter how diverse the school? Then why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc. it won't make the AA, econ disadvantaged, Sp Needs and at risk perform any better by being with White kids.

Some schools do better than others although all have achievement gaps to some degree. But Deal has gaps as wide as 40/50 points, Basis (because we are comparing MS) is 20 to 30.

The better question is why. It's why median growth percentile matters -- how kids improve on tests year to year. You can dig into the proficiency data as learndc.org -- click on Next Generation Assessments. MGP can be found elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

The key phrase is 20 years. I would imagine OP has a child who is already born, and will need a MS option she's confident in sooner than that.

I'm the OP, and have a K child. I don't think it would take 20 years to fill up the building. I think if they offer an IB program, there would be increased demand next year. Look at the incredible demand for charters that offer desirable programming. Many of them have no track record, and terrible facilities. And yet the people flock to them. This isn't that hard.

a lot of charters are self selecting-higher income SES families who can travel distances in the morning and afternoon to the school.

No. They're buying buildings that are available since they can't have access to the failing DCPS schools they surpass. It just so happens that because they have to pay market prices for large buildings (instead of being given access to the ones the law requires them to be given - like failing schools), they're less metro convenient.

You might not have noticed this, but houses, condos, businesses, retail outlets, restaurants, and just about everything else you want to visit costs more when it is metro accessible. So when you force a school to compete with a business or a development to get a building, it might not be able to afford one right on top of a metro station.

In other news, water is expected to be wet.

People forget that if a neighborhood grows or get redeveloped like Noma, Shaw, Charters are not required to take every kids that comes to them. DCPS has to and thus this is the only reason why they keep so many of their building supply. If DCPS gave up their buildings more easily to charters and the neighborhood had a growth in kids "Like some are currently" Charters can and often say "NO" to the child and they have to enroll in the DCPS school "No matter how over or under enrolled they are". I think people forget that Charters are just "Charters" meaning their not required to take everyone that applies and here's the kicker "Each charter unlike DCPS has an individual charter for their school or charter group only".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Deal has one of the biggest achievement gaps in the city - race, econ disadvantaged, special needs and at risk.

And it isn't because the white kids are any farther ahead of their peers in the rest of the city.

So achievement gaps will exist no matter how diverse the school? Then why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc. it won't make the AA, econ disadvantaged, Sp Needs and at risk perform any better by being with White kids.

OP here. To answer your question, "why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc."? First, there's an assumption that you're making that the goal is to "attract higher SES kids." Maybe others have that assumption, but I was thinking about higher achieving kids regardless of how wealthy their parents are. I think the reasons that DCPS should be trying to attract them are (1) DCPS should be trying to give the best education it can to all students, (2) by creating programs that are favored by relatively high achieving kids from relatively affluent backgrounds, you also create programs attractive to high achieving kids from relatively un-affluent backgrounds, (3) you create a culture where the emphasis is no longer limited to just focusing on raising the performance of the worst students, and (4) you attract more kids to under enrolled schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

Stuart Hobson used to be a natural feeder to Dunbar...their best and brightest went to Dunbar... They didn't become part of Eastern outlook until about 5-7 years ago when this so-called progress began. Laughable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

The key phrase is 20 years. I would imagine OP has a child who is already born, and will need a MS option she's confident in sooner than that.

I'm the OP, and have a K child. I don't think it would take 20 years to fill up the building. I think if they offer an IB program, there would be increased demand next year. Look at the incredible demand for charters that offer desirable programming. Many of them have no track record, and terrible facilities. And yet the people flock to them. This isn't that hard.

a lot of charters are self selecting-higher income SES families who can travel distances in the morning and afternoon to the school.

No. They're buying buildings that are available since they can't have access to the failing DCPS schools they surpass. It just so happens that because they have to pay market prices for large buildings (instead of being given access to the ones the law requires them to be given - like failing schools), they're less metro convenient.

You might not have noticed this, but houses, condos, businesses, retail outlets, restaurants, and just about everything else you want to visit costs more when it is metro accessible. So when you force a school to compete with a business or a development to get a building, it might not be able to afford one right on top of a metro station.

In other news, water is expected to be wet.

People forget that if a neighborhood grows or get redeveloped like Noma, Shaw, Charters are not required to take every kids that comes to them. DCPS has to and thus this is the only reason why they keep so many of their building supply. If DCPS gave up their buildings more easily to charters and the neighborhood had a growth in kids "Like some are currently" Charters can and often say "NO" to the child and they have to enroll in the DCPS school "No matter how over or under enrolled they are". I think people forget that Charters are just "Charters" meaning their not required to take everyone that applies and here's the kicker "Each charter unlike DCPS has an individual charter for their school or charter group only".[/quote]

This is NOT true. The DC charter law requires charters to take all kids and the data do not support your assertion.

Two large charter operators are being watched regarding their suspension rates, as they should be. But the data doesn't support your assertion that they can or do refuse to enroll or counsel out kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Deal has one of the biggest achievement gaps in the city - race, econ disadvantaged, special needs and at risk.

And it isn't because the white kids are any farther ahead of their peers in the rest of the city.

So achievement gaps will exist no matter how diverse the school? Then why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc. it won't make the AA, econ disadvantaged, Sp Needs and at risk perform any better by being with White kids.

OP here. To answer your question, "why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc."? First, there's an assumption that you're making that the goal is to "attract higher SES kids." Maybe others have that assumption, but I was thinking about higher achieving kids regardless of how wealthy their parents are. I think the reasons that DCPS should be trying to attract them are (1) DCPS should be trying to give the best education it can to all students, (2) by creating programs that are favored by relatively high achieving kids from relatively affluent backgrounds, you also create programs attractive to high achieving kids from relatively un-affluent backgrounds, (3) you create a culture where the emphasis is no longer limited to just focusing on raising the performance of the worst students, and (4) you attract more kids to under enrolled schools.

Think that's hard to do when over half of kids in DCPS cannot read or do math at grade level. Not sure how DCPS create a "culture where the emphasis is no longer limited to ... performance of the worst students" when they are the majority... and DCPS's actions seem to say the same thing: No G&T, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Deal has one of the biggest achievement gaps in the city - race, econ disadvantaged, special needs and at risk.

And it isn't because the white kids are any farther ahead of their peers in the rest of the city.

So achievement gaps will exist no matter how diverse the school? Then why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc. it won't make the AA, econ disadvantaged, Sp Needs and at risk perform any better by being with White kids.

OP here. To answer your question, "why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc."? First, there's an assumption that you're making that the goal is to "attract higher SES kids." Maybe others have that assumption, but I was thinking about higher achieving kids regardless of how wealthy their parents are. I think the reasons that DCPS should be trying to attract them are (1) DCPS should be trying to give the best education it can to all students, (2) by creating programs that are favored by relatively high achieving kids from relatively affluent backgrounds, you also create programs attractive to high achieving kids from relatively un-affluent backgrounds, (3) you create a culture where the emphasis is no longer limited to just focusing on raising the performance of the worst students, and (4) you attract more kids to under enrolled schools.

That is an assumption, not a given. High-achieving students of different SES levels may find different things attractive in a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

The key phrase is 20 years. I would imagine OP has a child who is already born, and will need a MS option she's confident in sooner than that.

I'm the OP, and have a K child. I don't think it would take 20 years to fill up the building. I think if they offer an IB program, there would be increased demand next year. Look at the incredible demand for charters that offer desirable programming. Many of them have no track record, and terrible facilities. And yet the people flock to them. This isn't that hard.

a lot of charters are self selecting-higher income SES families who can travel distances in the morning and afternoon to the school.

No. They're buying buildings that are available since they can't have access to the failing DCPS schools they surpass. It just so happens that because they have to pay market prices for large buildings (instead of being given access to the ones the law requires them to be given - like failing schools), they're less metro convenient.

You might not have noticed this, but houses, condos, businesses, retail outlets, restaurants, and just about everything else you want to visit costs more when it is metro accessible. So when you force a school to compete with a business or a development to get a building, it might not be able to afford one right on top of a metro station.

In other news, water is expected to be wet.

People forget that if a neighborhood grows or get redeveloped like Noma, Shaw, Charters are not required to take every kids that comes to them. DCPS has to and thus this is the only reason why they keep so many of their building supply. If DCPS gave up their buildings more easily to charters and the neighborhood had a growth in kids "Like some are currently" Charters can and often say "NO" to the child and they have to enroll in the DCPS school "No matter how over or under enrolled they are". I think people forget that Charters are just "Charters" meaning their not required to take everyone that applies and here's the kicker "Each charter unlike DCPS has an individual charter for their school or charter group only".[/quote]

This is NOT true. The DC charter law requires charters to take all kids and the data do not support your assertion.

Two large charter operators are being watched regarding their suspension rates, as they should be. But the data doesn't support your assertion that they can or do refuse to enroll or counsel out kids.

Whoever the person who wrote this quote This is NOT true. The DC charter law requires charters to take all kids and the data do not support your assertion.
Two large charter operators are being watched regarding their suspension rates, as they should be. But the data doesn't support your assertion that they can or do refuse to enroll or counsel out kids.

Please read below.


Charter Enrollment Rules

https://beta.code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/38-1802.06.html


DCPS Enrollment Rules

https://dcps.dc.gov/page/boundary-school-enrollment


Case closed as DCPS has to take any kid in their school boundary "though they can opt out to attend another school". Charters simply do not and it's written in the law. However the floor is yours.

[Anonymous]

No.

Charters are open to all. They run lotteries to allocate spaces to fill the capacity they are approved for. A school that is only authorized by the city to serve 35 kindergarten students can't be made to take 43 kindergarteners.

You are making it sounds as if it's a college or university that can pick and choose who it wants to admit. They cannot and do not erect that sort of barriers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No.

Charters are open to all. They run lotteries to allocate spaces to fill the capacity they are approved for. A school that is only authorized by the city to serve 35 kindergarten students can't be made to take 43 kindergarteners.

You are making it sounds as if it's a college or university that can pick and choose who it wants to admit. They cannot and do not erect that sort of barriers.

For charters yes that's correct they can not go past a number. However, I work at a DCPS school that for the past 4 years since I been here we always average between 20 to 40 new students every year in various parts of the year. That's what i'm saying this is the reason why DCPS are not letting the buildings go like they could because of what you just said "Charters are open to all. They run lotteries to allocate spaces to fill the capacity they are approved for. A school that is only authorized by the city to serve 35 kindergarten students can't be made to take 43 kindergarteners". That would never happen in DCPS as if any DCPS non admission school did this they would get sued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Deal has one of the biggest achievement gaps in the city - race, econ disadvantaged, special needs and at risk.

And it isn't because the white kids are any farther ahead of their peers in the rest of the city.

So achievement gaps will exist no matter how diverse the school? Then why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc. it won't make the AA, econ disadvantaged, Sp Needs and at risk perform any better by being with White kids.

OP here. To answer your question, "why bother trying to attract higher SES kids into Brookland, Eastern, etc."? First, there's an assumption that you're making that the goal is to "attract higher SES kids." Maybe others have that assumption, but I was thinking about higher achieving kids regardless of how wealthy their parents are. I think the reasons that DCPS should be trying to attract them are (1) DCPS should be trying to give the best education it can to all students, (2) by creating programs that are favored by relatively high achieving kids from relatively affluent backgrounds, you also create programs attractive to high achieving kids from relatively un-affluent backgrounds, (3) you create a culture where the emphasis is no longer limited to just focusing on raising the performance of the worst students, and (4) you attract more kids to under enrolled schools.

That is an assumption, not a given. High-achieving students of different SES levels may find different things attractive in a school.

Yes, it is an assumption. Which is all we have until we give it a try, and I think we should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB isn't the magic bullet OP.

Eliot Hine MS is already offering IB and it hasn't changed its trajectory at all.

https://dcps.dc.gov/ib

IB alone is not enough. It is not really IB unless most kids pass the test, ultimately.

DCPS will make no progress unless it puts in enough improvement simultaneously in middle and feeders to get high income families over the hump.

It's not actually terribly difficult to "pass" the International Baccalaureate with a points total that clears the bar (24 or 25 points of a possibly 45). A C student who's diligent can pull it off. What you want to see with IBD is an average pass points total in the 30s. There are 8 or 9 public suburban examples within 15 miles of the US Capitol. In DC, we have two pretty hopeless public IBD programs, one at Eastern, the other at Banneker. Most of the students "pass," but with shameful IB points totals, in the mid 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right. Brookland offered 25 6th grade seats to OOB (non-feeder) students.

The same number as Hardy offered for 6th FWIW.

If I'm reading the data correctly, Bookland offered 25 OOB seats and only 16 matched.

And total enrollment is listed as 315 (for 2015-2016 so this data is somewhat stale). The building is huge.

Holy crap. Only 315? Our tiny, overcrowded ES has over 400.