how to address the under enrollment at Brookland Middle School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the goal is to increase the enrollment of high-SES kids, DCPS would have to do specific things. Some of those things might make the school less attractive to low-SES kids, who are the vast majority of middle schoolers in DC.

So what do people want--a small school that is good for rich families whose kids are at or above grade level, or a big school? I know what posters on DCUM want. But that's not necessarily what DCPS does, or should, want.

What you're saying makes sense, but isn't reflected in what's actually happening. DCPS is trying to do things to be attractive to low SES kids, and almost no one is interested.

Was this a typo or an unintentional truth?

DCPS isn't trying to do things to be attractive to high SES families, so it's no surprise that almost none are interested.

It's doing a half-assed job of trying to do things to be attractive to lower SES families (Look! More square footage and newer walls - send us your kids and pretend nothing else has changed!).

What's surprising is that anyone is surprised that almost no-one is interested.

I'm the OP. Neither. I meant that DCPS is pursuing programs that it thinks will be attractive to low SES families and they aren't working to attract the low SES families, and they aren't attractive to anyone else. I gather that you agree with that statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:that original thread abut brookland from 2014 is eye opening. DCPS went on the record to state they "heard from parents the importance of test in classes and languages"--and none of that happened. the take away "we heard you parents, now shut up, so we can do what we want and fail as we always do"

Even with its low enrollment, Brookland offers Chinese AND Spanish (more options than SH or Hardy FWIW) so it seems DCPS did implement that piece.

Why not make another run at it with the new chancellor, using the input gathered in 2014.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

The key phrase is 20 years. I would imagine OP has a child who is already born, and will need a MS option she's confident in sooner than that.

I'm the OP, and have a K child. I don't think it would take 20 years to fill up the building. I think if they offer an IB program, there would be increased demand next year. Look at the incredible demand for charters that offer desirable programming. Many of them have no track record, and terrible facilities. And yet the people flock to them. This isn't that hard.

a lot of charters are self selecting-higher income SES families who can travel distances in the morning and afternoon to the school.

No. They're buying buildings that are available since they can't have access to the failing DCPS schools they surpass. It just so happens that because they have to pay market prices for large buildings (instead of being given access to the ones the law requires them to be given - like failing schools), they're less metro convenient.

You might not have noticed this, but houses, condos, businesses, retail outlets, restaurants, and just about everything else you want to visit costs more when it is metro accessible. So when you force a school to compete with a business or a development to get a building, it might not be able to afford one right on top of a metro station.

In other news, water is expected to be wet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the goal is to increase the enrollment of high-SES kids, DCPS would have to do specific things. Some of those things might make the school less attractive to low-SES kids, who are the vast majority of middle schoolers in DC.

So what do people want--a small school that is good for rich families whose kids are at or above grade level, or a big school? I know what posters on DCUM want. But that's not necessarily what DCPS does, or should, want.

What you're saying makes sense, but isn't reflected in what's actually happening. DCPS is trying to do things to be attractive to low SES kids, and almost no one is interested.

Was this a typo or an unintentional truth?

DCPS isn't trying to do things to be attractive to high SES families, so it's no surprise that almost none are interested.

It's doing a half-assed job of trying to do things to be attractive to lower SES families (Look! More square footage and newer walls - send us your kids and pretend nothing else has changed!).

What's surprising is that anyone is surprised that almost no-one is interested.

I'm the OP. Neither. I meant that DCPS is pursuing programs that it thinks will be attractive to low SES families and they aren't working to attract the low SES families, and they aren't attractive to anyone else. I gather that you agree with that statement.

Yes, I think everyone can agree on that. Well, not the Mayor's office or the Chancellor's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An abundance of high demand charters in close proximity to Brookland Middle School and almost zero interest of local mid-high SES parents to enroll their kids into DCPS elementary schools isn't the formula for success here.

Over before it started on this path.

True. So DCPS should just throw up its hands and give up?

The only solution that I can see is that the system would need to provide an incentive for those who are in the charters to cycle into BM.

That would mostly apply to kids who live in the BM inbound area, because very little (read no) chance of kids coming over to charter elementaries cycling into BM.

If Brookland area charters don't feed into BM, there could certainly be moderate improvements. Not holding my breath though..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An abundance of high demand charters in close proximity to Brookland Middle School and almost zero interest of local mid-high SES parents to enroll their kids into DCPS elementary schools isn't the formula for success here.

Over before it started on this path.

True. So DCPS should just throw up its hands and give up?

The only solution that I can see is that the system would need to provide an incentive for those who are in the charters to cycle into BM.

That would mostly apply to kids who live in the BM inbound area, because very little (read no) chance of kids coming over to charter elementaries cycling into BM.

If Brookland area charters don't feed into BM, there could certainly be moderate improvements. Not holding my breath though..

What on earth "incentive" could it be? And how could it overcome the disadvantages that come with a high poverty population? Also, nobody is interested in giving up DCI high school rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An abundance of high demand charters in close proximity to Brookland Middle School and almost zero interest of local mid-high SES parents to enroll their kids into DCPS elementary schools isn't the formula for success here.

Over before it started on this path.

True. So DCPS should just throw up its hands and give up?

The only solution that I can see is that the system would need to provide an incentive for those who are in the charters to cycle into BM.

That would mostly apply to kids who live in the BM inbound area, because very little (read no) chance of kids coming over to charter elementaries cycling into BM.

If Brookland area charters don't feed into BM, there could certainly be moderate improvements. Not holding my breath though..

What on earth "incentive" could it be? And how could it overcome the disadvantages that come with a high poverty population? Also, nobody is interested in giving up DCI high school rights.

A $5K/year voucher for college tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An abundance of high demand charters in close proximity to Brookland Middle School and almost zero interest of local mid-high SES parents to enroll their kids into DCPS elementary schools isn't the formula for success here.

Over before it started on this path.

True. So DCPS should just throw up its hands and give up?

The only solution that I can see is that the system would need to provide an incentive for those who are in the charters to cycle into BM.

That would mostly apply to kids who live in the BM inbound area, because very little (read no) chance of kids coming over to charter elementaries cycling into BM.

If Brookland area charters don't feed into BM, there could certainly be moderate improvements. Not holding my breath though..

What on earth "incentive" could it be? And how could it overcome the disadvantages that come with a high poverty population? Also, nobody is interested in giving up DCI high school rights.

A $5K/year voucher for college tuition.

Hahahahah!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An abundance of high demand charters in close proximity to Brookland Middle School and almost zero interest of local mid-high SES parents to enroll their kids into DCPS elementary schools isn't the formula for success here.

Over before it started on this path.

True. So DCPS should just throw up its hands and give up?

The only solution that I can see is that the system would need to provide an incentive for those who are in the charters to cycle into BM.

That would mostly apply to kids who live in the BM inbound area, because very little (read no) chance of kids coming over to charter elementaries cycling into BM.

If Brookland area charters don't feed into BM, there could certainly be moderate improvements. Not holding my breath though..

What on earth "incentive" could it be? And how could it overcome the disadvantages that come with a high poverty population? Also, nobody is interested in giving up DCI high school rights.

A $5K/year voucher for college tuition.

Hahahahah!

Only usable and UDC and CCDC!

[Anonymous]

The key to increasing enrollment at Brookland Middle School is to make the feeder schools (Noyes, Bunker Hill, Burroughs) schools that neighborhood parents are willing to send their kids to. Right now, that's not the case. Once parents are comfortable with the elementary schools, there's a chance of luring them to BMS. Right now so many kids in the neighborhood are in charters that have a middle school or are OOB in other DCPS schools that it's no surprise that they can't get any traction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The key to increasing enrollment at Brookland Middle School is to make the feeder schools (Noyes, Bunker Hill, Burroughs) schools that neighborhood parents are willing to send their kids to. Right now, that's not the case. Once parents are comfortable with the elementary schools, there's a chance of luring them to BMS. Right now so many kids in the neighborhood are in charters that have a middle school or are OOB in other DCPS schools that it's no surprise that they can't get any traction.

Some neighborhood parents aren't willing to send ther kids to these ES, but many are. The IB % are actually pretty high.

Noyes is 66% IB
Bunker Hill is 63% IB
Burroughs is 44% IB

Brookland MS is 63% IB

It's a very stratified neighborhood, and that makes DCPS' job harder. But they are serving a lot of Brookland kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The key to increasing enrollment at Brookland Middle School is to make the feeder schools (Noyes, Bunker Hill, Burroughs) schools that neighborhood parents are willing to send their kids to. Right now, that's not the case. Once parents are comfortable with the elementary schools, there's a chance of luring them to BMS. Right now so many kids in the neighborhood are in charters that have a middle school or are OOB in other DCPS schools that it's no surprise that they can't get any traction.

Some neighborhood parents aren't willing to send ther kids to these ES, but many are. The IB % are actually pretty high.

Noyes is 66% IB
Bunker Hill is 63% IB
Burroughs is 44% IB

Brookland MS is 63% IB

It's a very stratified neighborhood, and that makes DCPS' job harder. But they are serving a lot of Brookland kids.

You won't get far with DCPS making the case that Brookland isn't serving enough IB kids. It actually looks good on that score, although it is underenrolled.

By way of comparison - IB% at Middle Schools

Stuart Hobson 23%
Hardy 20%
Deal 63%
Eliot Hines 22%
Jefferson 33%
Hart 74%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

The key phrase is 20 years. I would imagine OP has a child who is already born, and will need a MS option she's confident in sooner than that.

I'm the OP, and have a K child. I don't think it would take 20 years to fill up the building. I think if they offer an IB program, there would be increased demand next year. Look at the incredible demand for charters that offer desirable programming. Many of them have no track record, and terrible facilities. And yet the people flock to them. This isn't that hard.

a lot of charters are self selecting-higher income SES families who can travel distances in the morning and afternoon to the school.

No. They're buying buildings that are available since they can't have access to the failing DCPS schools they surpass. It just so happens that because they have to pay market prices for large buildings (instead of being given access to the ones the law requires them to be given - like failing schools), they're less metro convenient.

You might not have noticed this, but houses, condos, businesses, retail outlets, restaurants, and just about everything else you want to visit costs more when it is metro accessible. So when you force a school to compete with a business or a development to get a building, it might not be able to afford one right on top of a metro station.

In other news, water is expected to be wet.

The property marketplace, selected locations, and lottery process most definitely makes for a situation wherein certain high demand charters become exclusive to mid-to-high SES families.

No sense in denying this. It certainly pays out to the lottery winners.

Proximity to mid-to-high SES families and more and more mid-to-high SES families will just increase this trend.

We can wring our hands about DCPS, but the reality is that only a small minority of mid-to-high SES families are investing in DCPS in transitioning neighborhoods.

If the system mandated charters to enroll a certain percent economically disadvantaged, it could be done. That isn't the system in place. Not saying it should be, but the lottery system snowballs mid-to-high SES for in demand charters - no matter where they are located.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

The key phrase is 20 years. I would imagine OP has a child who is already born, and will need a MS option she's confident in sooner than that.

I'm the OP, and have a K child. I don't think it would take 20 years to fill up the building. I think if they offer an IB program, there would be increased demand next year. Look at the incredible demand for charters that offer desirable programming. Many of them have no track record, and terrible facilities. And yet the people flock to them. This isn't that hard.

a lot of charters are self selecting-higher income SES families who can travel distances in the morning and afternoon to the school.

No. They're buying buildings that are available since they can't have access to the failing DCPS schools they surpass. It just so happens that because they have to pay market prices for large buildings (instead of being given access to the ones the law requires them to be given - like failing schools), they're less metro convenient.

You might not have noticed this, but houses, condos, businesses, retail outlets, restaurants, and just about everything else you want to visit costs more when it is metro accessible. So when you force a school to compete with a business or a development to get a building, it might not be able to afford one right on top of a metro station.

In other news, water is expected to be wet.

The property marketplace, selected locations, and lottery process most definitely makes for a situation wherein certain high demand charters become exclusive to mid-to-high SES families.

No sense in denying this. It certainly pays out to the lottery winners.

Proximity to mid-to-high SES families and more and more mid-to-high SES families will just increase this trend.

We can wring our hands about DCPS, but the reality is that only a small minority of mid-to-high SES families are investing in DCPS in transitioning neighborhoods.

If the system mandated charters to enroll a certain percent economically disadvantaged, it could be done. That isn't the system in place. Not saying it should be, but the lottery system snowballs mid-to-high SES for in demand charters - no matter where they are located.

Have you seen the PARCC scores for the economically disadvantaged or AA kids at some of the charters that DCUM obsesses over? Not good. So having the system mandate that these charters take a certain percent economically disadvantage is not going to solve the problem of low academic achievement and meeting grade level expectations. HRCS does not equal serving these populations well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't fix under enrollment at Brookland so long as it feeds to Dunbar.

It's a sysiphean task.

It is a huge task but it can work. Stuart-Hobson feeds to Eastern but parents have made a lot of progress there in the last 20 years.

The key phrase is 20 years. I would imagine OP has a child who is already born, and will need a MS option she's confident in sooner than that.

I'm the OP, and have a K child. I don't think it would take 20 years to fill up the building. I think if they offer an IB program, there would be increased demand next year. Look at the incredible demand for charters that offer desirable programming. Many of them have no track record, and terrible facilities. And yet the people flock to them. This isn't that hard.

a lot of charters are self selecting-higher income SES families who can travel distances in the morning and afternoon to the school.

No. They're buying buildings that are available since they can't have access to the failing DCPS schools they surpass. It just so happens that because they have to pay market prices for large buildings (instead of being given access to the ones the law requires them to be given - like failing schools), they're less metro convenient.

You might not have noticed this, but houses, condos, businesses, retail outlets, restaurants, and just about everything else you want to visit costs more when it is metro accessible. So when you force a school to compete with a business or a development to get a building, it might not be able to afford one right on top of a metro station.

In other news, water is expected to be wet.

The property marketplace, selected locations, and lottery process most definitely makes for a situation wherein certain high demand charters become exclusive to mid-to-high SES families.

No sense in denying this. It certainly pays out to the lottery winners.

Proximity to mid-to-high SES families and more and more mid-to-high SES families will just increase this trend.

We can wring our hands about DCPS, but the reality is that only a small minority of mid-to-high SES families are investing in DCPS in transitioning neighborhoods.

If the system mandated charters to enroll a certain percent economically disadvantaged, it could be done. That isn't the system in place. Not saying it should be, but the lottery system snowballs mid-to-high SES for in demand charters - no matter where they are located.

Have you seen the PARCC scores for the economically disadvantaged or AA kids at some of the charters that DCUM obsesses over? Not good. So having the system mandate that these charters take a certain percent economically disadvantage is not going to solve the problem of low academic achievement and meeting grade level expectations. HRCS does not equal serving these populations well.

Have you seen the scores for this population at Deal and for Special Pops, it's shocking.