Are we allowed to say "Islamic terrorists"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see is good Muslims not only denouncing terrorist acts in the name of Allah but also denouncing or at least clarifying/revising the scripture verses terrorist use to justify their violence. Denouncing the motive is more meaningful than denouncing the violent act.

You know, I could understand that some of the language puts us in a complex grey area that ends up validating the insane perspectives of the Taliban, particularly in its subjugation of its own citizens. But there is NOTHING in the Quran that even remotely justifies what happened in Paris. I think we should be very careful about giving into the idea that ISIS has textual support for its policies. It doesn't. They rely on people's ignorance and fear to gain strength. We need to combat with knowledge and strategy that disarms them completely.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thats like saying the The Army of God represent all Christian Religions and all Christians believe and support their terrorism. How can you be so ignorant?

The stupid and evil things Christians do and believe are one of the reasons I am no longer a Christian. I hope that good people that are still Muslim do the same.

I don't let the stupid and evil things that humans do dictate how I feel about god. It has very little to do with religion, there are bad people every where. Abandoning your religion won't change that. How do you cope with the crimes committed by atheists?

Don't see much crime comitted in the name of Atheism. I see tons of stupid evil stuff in the Old Testament and the Quran, and people doing horrible things based on the things in there. No purported superior being would be in any way associated with the crap in there.

The three Muslims killed in North Carolina were shot by an atheist who had previously harassed them about their religion. BTW, the atheist who post on DCUM are quickly moving to the top of the most obnoxious posters list. You guys are the best advertisement for religion that I have ever seen, and I say that as someone who is not religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see is good Muslims not only denouncing terrorist acts in the name of Allah but also denouncing or at least clarifying/revising the scripture verses terrorist use to justify their violence. Denouncing the motive is more meaningful than denouncing the violent act.

You know, I could understand that some of the language puts us in a complex grey area that ends up validating the insane perspectives of the Taliban, particularly in its subjugation of its own citizens. But there is NOTHING in the Quran that even remotely justifies what happened in Paris. I think we should be very careful about giving into the idea that ISIS has textual support for its policies. It doesn't. They rely on people's ignorance and fear to gain strength. We need to combat with knowledge and strategy that disarms them completely.

I would assume the below scripture could easily be used by ISIS to justify their slaying of the oppressive French. And also for justifying any attacks on the US.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191
002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see is good Muslims not only denouncing terrorist acts in the name of Allah but also denouncing or at least clarifying/revising the scripture verses terrorist use to justify their violence. Denouncing the motive is more meaningful than denouncing the violent act.

You know, I could understand that some of the language puts us in a complex grey area that ends up validating the insane perspectives of the Taliban, particularly in its subjugation of its own citizens. But there is NOTHING in the Quran that even remotely justifies what happened in Paris. I think we should be very careful about giving into the idea that ISIS has textual support for its policies. It doesn't. They rely on people's ignorance and fear to gain strength. We need to combat with knowledge and strategy that disarms them completely.

I would assume the below scripture could easily be used by ISIS to justify their slaying of the oppressive French. And also for justifying any attacks on the US.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191
002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

The verse very clearly says that you can fight people who have forced you to leave your homes. That doesn't justify hurting French civilians at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see is good Muslims not only denouncing terrorist acts in the name of Allah but also denouncing or at least clarifying/revising the scripture verses terrorist use to justify their violence. Denouncing the motive is more meaningful than denouncing the violent act.

They do, the western media doesn't cover it. Al Azhar denounced it, as did the Arab League, and leaders of many Muslim majority countries. See Al Jazeera for better coverage.

[Anonymous]

Relevant.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thats like saying the The Army of God represent all Christian Religions and all Christians believe and support their terrorism. How can you be so ignorant?

The stupid and evil things Christians do and believe are one of the reasons I am no longer a Christian. I hope that good people that are still Muslim do the same.

I don't let the stupid and evil things that humans do dictate how I feel about god. It has very little to do with religion, there are bad people every where. Abandoning your religion won't change that. How do you cope with the crimes committed by atheists?

Don't see much crime comitted in the name of Atheism. I see tons of stupid evil stuff in the Old Testament and the Quran, and people doing horrible things based on the things in there. No purported superior being would be in any way associated with the crap in there.

The three Muslims killed in North Carolina were shot by an atheist who had previously harassed them about their religion. BTW, the atheist who post on DCUM are quickly moving to the top of the most obnoxious posters list. You guys are the best advertisement for religion that I have ever seen, and I say that as someone who is not religious.

Yeah, but did he do it in name of atheism... As in, he used his atheism to justify the killing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see is good Muslims not only denouncing terrorist acts in the name of Allah but also denouncing or at least clarifying/revising the scripture verses terrorist use to justify their violence. Denouncing the motive is more meaningful than denouncing the violent act.

You know, I could understand that some of the language puts us in a complex grey area that ends up validating the insane perspectives of the Taliban, particularly in its subjugation of its own citizens. But there is NOTHING in the Quran that even remotely justifies what happened in Paris. I think we should be very careful about giving into the idea that ISIS has textual support for its policies. It doesn't. They rely on people's ignorance and fear to gain strength. We need to combat with knowledge and strategy that disarms them completely.

I would assume the below scripture could easily be used by ISIS to justify their slaying of the oppressive French. And also for justifying any attacks on the US.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191
002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

The verse very clearly says that you can fight people who have forced you to leave your homes. That doesn't justify hurting French civilians at all.

France is actively fighting in Syria and Iraq. While the French citizens attacked last night were not the actual soldiers involved in those countries, they are "oppressing" ISIS.

[Anonymous]

France used to colonize Syria, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thats like saying the The Army of God represent all Christian Religions and all Christians believe and support their terrorism. How can you be so ignorant?

Are they killing in the name of the bible and christisnity? Then they are Christian terrorists. And no that's not reflective of all Christians. Just like ISIS isn't reflective of all Muslims. But a fact is a fact - ISIS kills in the name of Islam. It's their reason for being. It's their freaking name. They are Islamic terrorists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see is good Muslims not only denouncing terrorist acts in the name of Allah but also denouncing or at least clarifying/revising the scripture verses terrorist use to justify their violence. Denouncing the motive is more meaningful than denouncing the violent act.

You know, I could understand that some of the language puts us in a complex grey area that ends up validating the insane perspectives of the Taliban, particularly in its subjugation of its own citizens. But there is NOTHING in the Quran that even remotely justifies what happened in Paris. I think we should be very careful about giving into the idea that ISIS has textual support for its policies. It doesn't. They rely on people's ignorance and fear to gain strength. We need to combat with knowledge and strategy that disarms them completely.

I would assume the below scripture could easily be used by ISIS to justify their slaying of the oppressive French. And also for justifying any attacks on the US.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191
002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

The verse very clearly says that you can fight people who have forced you to leave your homes. That doesn't justify hurting French civilians at all.

ISIS is being forced to leave their homes. Although I don't see anything in the verse that specifically mentions homes or civilians. Here is what I mean by clarifying/revising versus. Why not promote modernizing the verse to clearly state it's intended purpose/message. Which I admit I have no idea what the verse's intended message is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have nothing constructive to say really, but I want to add that the anti-muslim sentiments based on the actions of a few make me sad and angry. I guess I wish that the quiet majority of which I have to believe I am a part was able to be louder than the very vocal fear- and hate-mongering few (I'm looking particularly at you, Fox News).

I hear ya.

But...when people say horrible things about Catholics and try to paint the entire church in a bad light thanks to the actions of a rather small group (hello pedophile priests and the evil asshats who covered it up), I take it on the chin and take it in stride. I don't whine about it because the critics have legit rocks to throw at the church. I never try to explain it or justify it. And perhaps most importantly, I wouldn't stay in a parish that condoned such horrific acts. I've also spoken out on the subject through letters to the archdiocese and face to face with several priests.

I know this isn't a perfect analogy, but I think it's fair to say that folks should understand why others might form some sort of opinion about them based on their affiliations---any affiliation: religion, political, country club, etc. And its on you to either own it or disprove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have nothing constructive to say really, but I want to add that the anti-muslim sentiments based on the actions of a few make me sad and angry. I guess I wish that the quiet majority of which I have to believe I am a part was able to be louder than the very vocal fear- and hate-mongering few (I'm looking particularly at you, Fox News).

I hear ya.

But...when people say horrible things about Catholics and try to paint the entire church in a bad light thanks to the actions of a rather small group (hello pedophile priests and the evil asshats who covered it up), I take it on the chin and take it in stride. I don't whine about it because the critics have legit rocks to throw at the church. I never try to explain it or justify it. And perhaps most importantly, I wouldn't stay in a parish that condoned such horrific acts. I've also spoken out on the subject through letters to the archdiocese and face to face with several priests.

I know this isn't a perfect analogy, but I think it's fair to say that folks should understand why others might form some sort of opinion about them based on their affiliations---any affiliation: religion, political, country club, etc. And its on you to either own it or disprove it.

I forgot to mention that I was super close to leaving the church all together until the new pope came along. Sometimes it makes sense to abandon a sinking ship...or get some like minded people together to build a raft and launch a mutiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thats like saying the The Army of God represent all Christian Religions and all Christians believe and support their terrorism. How can you be so ignorant?

Are they killing in the name of the bible and christisnity? Then they are Christian terrorists. And no that's not reflective of all Christians. Just like ISIS isn't reflective of all Muslims. But a fact is a fact - ISIS kills in the name of Islam. It's their reason for being. It's their freaking name. They are Islamic terrorists.

omg u are stupid. Their reason for being is Wahhabism (Saudi Arabia).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thats like saying the The Army of God represent all Christian Religions and all Christians believe and support their terrorism. How can you be so ignorant?

The stupid and evil things Christians do and believe are one of the reasons I am no longer a Christian. I hope that good people that are still Muslim do the same.

I don't let the stupid and evil things that humans do dictate how I feel about god. It has very little to do with religion, there are bad people every where. Abandoning your religion won't change that. How do you cope with the crimes committed by atheists?

Don't see much crime comitted in the name of Atheism. I see tons of stupid evil stuff in the Old Testament and the Quran, and people doing horrible things based on the things in there. No purported superior being would be in any way associated with the crap in there.

The three Muslims killed in North Carolina were shot by an atheist who had previously harassed them about their religion. BTW, the atheist who post on DCUM are quickly moving to the top of the most obnoxious posters list. You guys are the best advertisement for religion that I have ever seen, and I say that as someone who is not religious.

Yeah, but did he do it in name of atheism... As in, he used his atheism to justify the killing?

I just read an article on the incident. He wasn't shy about his atheism and posted negative comments about Christianity. So he was a wack job, no doubt. While they claimed it was over a parking dispute, I'm sure his anti-religious views added fuel to the incident.

However, having said that, I don't think you can compare religious extremists - such as ISIS - to atheists who go on murder sprees. There is momentum in these extremist religious "movements" that you simply can't replicate in the world of atheism. When you have a spiritual leader who promises you an afterlife should you be a truly devout adherent, you psychologically have an edge.

This isn't the case for atheists. There's no momentum to gather together to fight for a cause - again, however distorted that cause may be. There's no true need for group think. There's no need to believe in "safety in numbers."

Even Jim Jones, whom another PP noted, while an atheist, called people together in the name of the People's Temple where folks were "committed" to something along the lines of the Social Gospel. So these movements or cults or extremist groups revolve around a belief system led by some higher power.

Atheists don't have that. They don't believe that by doing good, they earn a spot in heaven, for example. So they're simply lone wackadoos. I don't think you'll see them band together in a violent way in the name of nothing to push their godless agenda.