Does this make me classist or (shudder!) racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My principal says, "Ax" instead of "Ask." It used to make me cringe but when I think about it, I have to applaud her. I don't know her childhood background but she went to Harvard. It's not like anyone can say anything to her.

I call BS.

About what? My AA principal went to Harvard yet pronounced it "Ax" as in "Ax your parents to sign your report card and return the envelope to school." She said that just this week on the announcements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp you are trying to elicit a response from but yes, I would be unhappy with the cheerleader twit too. Proper grammar for a teacher is a must. I don't care what they look like but they should be competent as well as possess the other qualities, kindness, love of children, etc. It's not racist to expect a teacher, of whatever ethnicity, to be well spoken. As a teacher they should be held to a higher standard. If I heard a teacher say "I might could" like a very well educated southern member of my family, I would cringe just as I do when my family member says it--and, by the way, she fits the bill of the southern school teacher hypothetical. No one's grammar is perfect but there is no reason that we should not all strive to and expect hat our teachers will speak correctly. I repeat this is not a race thing---so ridiculous!

Most of the Asian and Indian teachers speak incorrectly from time to time... but nobody cares... so it is a race thing.... you are the one that is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Where, public school? All the teachers, Indian, Asian, AA, white, whatever, thank goodness, speak correctly at my kid's school. Ah, silly thread. Have a great day full of painfully grammatically incorrect conversations--although you probably won't be able to pick up on it so won't be bad for you just those of us with an ear for it. Ha!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard rich, white folks use conversate, orientate, irregardless, could care less, etc etc.

AX is just a dialect. May not be awesome, but no worse than "warsh" (Baltimore), Birfday" (my upper PA in laws say this), or whatever. Really. You KNOW your kid is not going to come home saying "ax," so the only reason it bothers you is because...actually, I don't know why.

False equivalence. Ax is not a dialect or an accent. It is a mispronunciation of word, which reveals either a lack of education or some kind of learning disability. The white people who use the words you listed above are revealing a lack of education. Not sure how that aided your argument. All you're really saying is that there are also uneducated whites (or whites who are uneducated on the use of those words).

I grew up in the 1980s in a public school system that was 100% white. There were kids in my school who said ax instead of ask (if white kids in my lily-white town use it, how could it be a black dialect?). Those kids, more often than not, landed in the remedial program, and were certainly not the high performers when high school came around.

The true racists on this board are the apologists chalking up the use of ax as a black dialect, as if no one should expect blacks to be educated enough to know the difference. Sorry folks, but holding the black teacher to a lower standard is racist.

I disagree. Have you ever heard of African American Vernacular English? We studied it quite thoroughly in a linguistics class that I took in college. I don't think it's false equivalency at all. I do think it's important for children to understand that language is an inherent part of our identity, and that we use language as a tool, and often times it is necessary to use more "standard" or "formal" language. The key is teaching children when and where the more formal version is appropriate.

Well, if this is AA English, then that may partially explain the disparities in job interview callbacks as noted in recent studies. Not everything can be blamed on discrimination.

[Anonymous]

May interest some here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_KKLkmIrDk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where, public school? All the teachers, Indian, Asian, AA, white, whatever, thank goodness, speak correctly at my kid's school. Ah, silly thread. Have a great day full of painfully grammatically incorrect conversations--although you probably won't be able to pick up on it so won't be bad for you just those of us with an ear for it. Ha!

No, if you really have Asian and Indian people teaching... Not Americans that seem to be Asian or indian, they mispronounce words... and you subconsciously ignore it because you assume they are smart based on their race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard rich, white folks use conversate, orientate, irregardless, could care less, etc etc.

AX is just a dialect. May not be awesome, but no worse than "warsh" (Baltimore), Birfday" (my upper PA in laws say this), or whatever. Really. You KNOW your kid is not going to come home saying "ax," so the only reason it bothers you is because...actually, I don't know why.

You idiot. "orientate" "irregardless" and "could care less" are all 100% grammatically correct.

Oriented. Regardless (the other only RECENTLY accepted due to rampant use). Could care less isn't what you use when you are saying that you CouldN'T care less.

Do you want to try writing that out again, in English this time?

Different poster. She/he is speaking English. I think you just find it sucks to be wrong.

And ANYBODY who has bothered to study linguistics, and not their own biases, knows that ax/ask is a dialect. And I posted this in the last thread--unless you say Feb-roo-ary, you are saying it wrong. And words like often can be pronounced multiple ways. It is language, not a learning disability as another ignorant poster said.

Check again - I said that all those examples are "grammatically correct". Whether the common usage is "could" or "couldn't" is not relevant to BOTH being GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT. So where am I wrong again? Oh yes, that would be no where.

They are NOT "grammatically correct." You are wrong about that.

Actually they are all "grammatically correct". Do you know what grammar means? I genuinely think you are confusing the rules of grammar with definitions and rules of "usage". It doesn't matter if the saying is wrong, or worded incorrectly, if it remains grammatically correct.

Digging in deeper, aren't you? The first post about "orientate, could care less," etc were about usage. You decided to call someone an idiot because even though two of those aren't really words and one is bad usage, you inexplicably decided to chime in by calling them "grammatically correct."

HOW that relates to ax, pronunciation, and usage is still unclear, but sure, yeah, made up words and bad phrasing are grammatically correct. Doesn't mean you should use them.

Do you even have a point with all this nonsense, or did you find yourself saying yesterday, "Irregardless of how people choose to orientate themselves, I could care less" and now feel like you need to defend it?

WTH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where, public school? All the teachers, Indian, Asian, AA, white, whatever, thank goodness, speak correctly at my kid's school. Ah, silly thread. Have a great day full of painfully grammatically incorrect conversations--although you probably won't be able to pick up on it so won't be bad for you just those of us with an ear for it. Ha!

No, if you really have Asian and Indian people teaching... Not Americans that seem to be Asian or indian, they mispronounce words... and you subconsciously ignore it because you assume they are smart based on their race.

Wow you are so racist and condescending. Thank you for interpreting my Actual interactions of which you have not taken part or experienced. And if someone mispronounced a word or uses improper grammar because they are from different country that is completely different then a native born speaker doing so. Carry on with your hypocritical pseudo intellectual politically correct life and please continue to entirely miss the point. Geesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My principal says, "Ax" instead of "Ask." It used to make me cringe but when I think about it, I have to applaud her. I don't know her childhood background but she went to Harvard. It's not like anyone can say anything to her.

I call BS.

About what? My AA principal went to Harvard yet pronounced it "Ax" as in "Ax your parents to sign your report card and return the envelope to school." She said that just this week on the announcements.

Then Harvard should have withheld her diploma. "Ax" is what a dipshit says.

President Obama doesn't say "ax." Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Neil deGrasse Tyson and the incomparable James Earl Jones don't say "ax."

[Anonymous]

If you have to ask the question, the answer is "yes."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have to ask the question, the answer is "yes."

Bullshit. For whatever you are paying in private school tuition, you should expect that they will not hire stupid people who can't speak English correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Then Harvard should have withheld her diploma. "Ax" is what a dipshit says.

President Obama doesn't say "ax." Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Neil deGrasse Tyson and the incomparable James Earl Jones don't say "ax."

I wonder if you've heard of code-switching? Here are Key and Peele to demonstrate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzprLDmdRlc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard rich, white folks use conversate, orientate, irregardless, could care less, etc etc.

AX is just a dialect. May not be awesome, but no worse than "warsh" (Baltimore), Birfday" (my upper PA in laws say this), or whatever. Really. You KNOW your kid is not going to come home saying "ax," so the only reason it bothers you is because...actually, I don't know why.

You idiot. "orientate" "irregardless" and "could care less" are all 100% grammatically correct.

Oriented. Regardless (the other only RECENTLY accepted due to rampant use). Could care less isn't what you use when you are saying that you CouldN'T care less.

Do you want to try writing that out again, in English this time?

Different poster. She/he is speaking English. I think you just find it sucks to be wrong.

And ANYBODY who has bothered to study linguistics, and not their own biases, knows that ax/ask is a dialect. And I posted this in the last thread--unless you say Feb-roo-ary, you are saying it wrong. And words like often can be pronounced multiple ways. It is language, not a learning disability as another ignorant poster said.

Check again - I said that all those examples are "grammatically correct". Whether the common usage is "could" or "couldn't" is not relevant to BOTH being GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT. So where am I wrong again? Oh yes, that would be no where.

They are NOT "grammatically correct." You are wrong about that.

Actually they are all "grammatically correct". Do you know what grammar means? I genuinely think you are confusing the rules of grammar with definitions and rules of "usage". It doesn't matter if the saying is wrong, or worded incorrectly, if it remains grammatically correct.

Digging in deeper, aren't you? The first post about "orientate, could care less," etc were about usage. You decided to call someone an idiot because even though two of those aren't really words and one is bad usage, you inexplicably decided to chime in by calling them "grammatically correct."

HOW that relates to ax, pronunciation, and usage is still unclear, but sure, yeah, made up words and bad phrasing are grammatically correct. Doesn't mean you should use them.

Do you even have a point with all this nonsense, or did you find yourself saying yesterday, "Irregardless of how people choose to orientate themselves, I could care less" and now feel like you need to defend it?

WTH.

No, "made up words" are not grammatically correct. You're wrong there. There were not any actual "made up words" in the words I read or highlighted in my responses. Perhaps you need to consult a dictionary.

[Anonymous]

My mother was a perfect grammarian. I expect everyone to speak English correctly if they are teaching in a school. I don't care what race they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a perfect grammarian. I expect everyone to speak English correctly if they are teaching in a school. I don't care what race they are.

Which version of English do you expect everyone to speak correctly? Standard US English? RP? Singlish? Strine?

(Not to mention that "aks" vs. "ask" is not a question of grammar, but rather of pronunciation.)