Does this make me classist or (shudder!) racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a perfect grammarian. I expect everyone to speak English correctly if they are teaching in a school. I don't care what race they are.

And the British think we speak English as though raised on a pig farm. Your mom was a perfect grammarian here. Outside of the our borders, maybe not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp you are trying to elicit a response from but yes, I would be unhappy with the cheerleader twit too. Proper grammar for a teacher is a must. I don't care what they look like but they should be competent as well as possess the other qualities, kindness, love of children, etc. It's not racist to expect a teacher, of whatever ethnicity, to be well spoken. As a teacher they should be held to a higher standard. If I heard a teacher say "I might could" like a very well educated southern member of my family, I would cringe just as I do when my family member says it--and, by the way, she fits the bill of the southern school teacher hypothetical. No one's grammar is perfect but there is no reason that we should not all strive to and expect hat our teachers will speak correctly. I repeat this is not a race thing---so ridiculous!

Just curious. Is all of your family well educated? If your family member that uses "I might could" suddenly changed things up after going off to school, would her friends/family think that she was trying to separate herself from them? Usually the local dialect/regional accents are not learned in a vacuum. If most of your friends and family speak one way, it is noticiable if you start speaking differently ...in a way that sets you apart from everyone else. I'm from Long Island so if I everyone is saying waaater and I ask for water with every syllable crisply enunciated it might appear that I am trying to erase any accent and possibly ashamed of my background. I think there is some insecurity both ways that the family members/friends that use axe, fixin to, I might could, feel like you are trying to distance yourself from them/look down on them and there may be some truth to that. You have to reconcile changing how you speak to improve how you are perceived by others (meaning you recognize others could think you are less educated or unintelligent speaking the way you grew up) with being able to see someone can be intelligent and well educated and still use "I might could" and still being proud of your friends and family.

So to the OP, I think it is a class thing if you feel the same way about the other examples like fixin to, dropped r's from Boston etc.

[Anonymous]

My mother speaks 3 languages fluently and other 3 conversationally. She has two masters degrees. Her accent makes it so she sometimes says "ax"

Judge away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp you are trying to elicit a response from but yes, I would be unhappy with the cheerleader twit too. Proper grammar for a teacher is a must. I don't care what they look like but they should be competent as well as possess the other qualities, kindness, love of children, etc. It's not racist to expect a teacher, of whatever ethnicity, to be well spoken. As a teacher they should be held to a higher standard. If I heard a teacher say "I might could" like a very well educated southern member of my family, I would cringe just as I do when my family member says it--and, by the way, she fits the bill of the southern school teacher hypothetical. No one's grammar is perfect but there is no reason that we should not all strive to and expect hat our teachers will speak correctly. I repeat this is not a race thing---so ridiculous!

Most of the Asian and Indian teachers speak incorrectly from time to time... but nobody cares... so it is a race thing.... you are the one that is ridiculous.

Most of the people complaining here are white Americans who don't really have much experience with people who speak other languages or people of other races. They may be educated, but they are ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp you are trying to elicit a response from but yes, I would be unhappy with the cheerleader twit too. Proper grammar for a teacher is a must. I don't care what they look like but they should be competent as well as possess the other qualities, kindness, love of children, etc. It's not racist to expect a teacher, of whatever ethnicity, to be well spoken. As a teacher they should be held to a higher standard. If I heard a teacher say "I might could" like a very well educated southern member of my family, I would cringe just as I do when my family member says it--and, by the way, she fits the bill of the southern school teacher hypothetical. No one's grammar is perfect but there is no reason that we should not all strive to and expect hat our teachers will speak correctly. I repeat this is not a race thing---so ridiculous!

Most of the Asian and Indian teachers speak incorrectly from time to time... but nobody cares... so it is a race thing.... you are the one that is ridiculous.

Most of the people complaining here are white Americans who don't really have much experience with people who speak other languages or people of other races. They may be educated, but they are ignorant.

Here's a good site for the diversity of English grammar just in North America: http://microsyntax.sites.yale.edu/phenomena

Including multiple modals, like "I might could do that.": http://microsyntax.sites.yale.edu/multiple-modals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it makes you racist and little ignorant. Do you care that a teacher from Boston does not pronounce their r's? No. Because when white people don't pronounce things correctly it is cute when black people do it, you think they are uneducated.

NP here. I have no problem whatsoever with aks, but I am seriously put off with Boston (and Brooklyn) accents which butcher the english language. What does this make me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it makes you racist and little ignorant. Do you care that a teacher from Boston does not pronounce their r's? No. Because when white people don't pronounce things correctly it is cute when black people do it, you think they are uneducated.

NP here. I have no problem whatsoever with aks, but I am seriously put off with Boston (and Brooklyn) accents which butcher the english language. What does this make me?

It makes you narrow minded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a perfect grammarian. I expect everyone to speak English correctly if they are teaching in a school. I don't care what race they are.

And the British think we speak English as though raised on a pig farm. Your mom was a perfect grammarian here. Outside of the our borders, maybe not.

I am English and I don't think that. I am aware that American English is sometimes, slightly different to British English. In terms of spellings, verb forms ("gotten" is strictly US not UK) and usage. For instance in the US you might say "he wrote me" but in the UK you would either say " He wrote to me" or "He wrote me a letter", never just "He wrote me".

Doesn't make you pig farmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ya know, we've been unimpressed by some of the teachers at my DC's big-3 lower and middle school. Lots of typos in tests and homework assignments, occasional grammar issues, and a general lack of teaching experience! Makes me wonder why we're paying so much when teachers are like that, often just recently graduated from university. One teacher who really has issues is working on a graduate degree in another city so has to take time to go there/back for classes and do homework, etc., AND be a full time teacher at my DC's "big-3" school. Hard to believe.

So -- no, being concerned about "aks" doesn't make you racist. Just let if go though.

+1. I agree that, at my DC's school, it is surprising how young and inexperienced the teachers are. When I read the assignments they give, I am surprised at how sloppy they are with their own grammar.

I would be disappointed if a teacher pronounced "ask" as "aks." There may be a history to that pronunciation, but anyone who speaks like that is putting himself or herself at a disadvantage.

The tuition is a burden for us and so I think we perhaps are more cranky about problems at the school than would someone who has grandparent funding, earns more, or gets financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it makes you racist and little ignorant. Do you care that a teacher from Boston does not pronounce their r's? No. Because when white people don't pronounce things correctly it is cute when black people do it, you think they are uneducated.

NP here. I have no problem whatsoever with aks, but I am seriously put off with Boston (and Brooklyn) accents which butcher the english language. What does this make me?

It makes you narrow minded.

Any regional dialect tends to make a person sound uneducated. That may not be a fair assessment, but it's a generalization people make about how we speak.

A boss once told me to add 10 points to the IQ of anyone from West Texas, and to subtract 10 points from the IQ of anyone from England.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the South, and quite a few people say "I'm fixing to do this and that." I figured it's local, y'all. Same as in New England, where "I says" used to drive me nuts. We are speaking of academic environment, where Standard American English, i.e. the dialect of Grosse Pointe, MI, is expected to be used and taught. You want to hear it? Turn on CNN. Throughout the world, regardless of a specific language, a heavy regional accent is a sign of poor education. Love it, hate it, it is what it is.

I speak English with a noticeable foreign accent and go out of my way to compensate with correct grammar and usage (to the best of my knowledge). I don't want my child to be taught a regional accent. The school is meant to perpetuate a standard. What happens outside of school is another matter entirely.

Wait, what? Who said that Standard American English = how people in Grosse Pointe talk? Why Grosse Pointe?

Also, I'm guessing that you haven't listened to the BBC lately. Regional accents galore.

I'm guessing you have not studied languages. Frankly, I don't know who comes up with standards and why, but they exist, and educated people choose to follow them.

British English is not an accent; it is a separate variety of English with its own regional accents. There is a school of thought that considers British and American English two different languages (although it is not a popular view).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then Harvard should have withheld her diploma. "Ax" is what a dipshit says.

President Obama doesn't say "ax." Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Neil deGrasse Tyson and the incomparable James Earl Jones don't say "ax."

I wonder if you've heard of code-switching? Here are Key and Peele to demonstrate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzprLDmdRlc

Well, if code-switching is going on, then the "axe your parents" teachers can just well switch it off at school. Save it for the boozy night out with friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the South, and quite a few people say "I'm fixing to do this and that." I figured it's local, y'all. Same as in New England, where "I says" used to drive me nuts. We are speaking of academic environment, where Standard American English, i.e. the dialect of Grosse Pointe, MI, is expected to be used and taught. You want to hear it? Turn on CNN. Throughout the world, regardless of a specific language, a heavy regional accent is a sign of poor education. Love it, hate it, it is what it is.

I speak English with a noticeable foreign accent and go out of my way to compensate with correct grammar and usage (to the best of my knowledge). I don't want my child to be taught a regional accent. The school is meant to perpetuate a standard. What happens outside of school is another matter entirely.

Wait, what? Who said that Standard American English = how people in Grosse Pointe talk? Why Grosse Pointe?

Also, I'm guessing that you haven't listened to the BBC lately. Regional accents galore.

I'm guessing you have not studied languages. Frankly, I don't know who comes up with standards and why, but they exist, and educated people choose to follow them.

British English is not an accent; it is a separate variety of English with its own regional accents. There is a school of thought that considers British and American English two different languages (although it is not a popular view).

This confirms that, in fact, you haven't listened to the BBC lately. There are a lot of regional English (as in, from England) accents on the BBC. The days when everybody on the BBC spoke in Received Pronunciation are long gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it makes you racist and little ignorant. Do you care that a teacher from Boston does not pronounce their r's? No. Because when white people don't pronounce things correctly it is cute when black people do it, you think they are uneducated.

NP here. I have no problem whatsoever with aks, but I am seriously put off with Boston (and Brooklyn) accents which butcher the english language. What does this make me?

It makes you narrow minded.

Any regional dialect tends to make a person sound uneducated. That may not be a fair assessment, but it's a generalization people make about how we speak.

A boss once told me to add 10 points to the IQ of anyone from West Texas, and to subtract 10 points from the IQ of anyone from England.

No, SOME regional dialects tend to make a person sound uneducated -- specifically, the dialects from the lower-status parts of a society/country. And OTHER regional dialects tend to make a person sound educated. You say so yourself, in your post.

And, strictly speaking, it's not that they make the person sound uneducated, it's that we perceive the person as sounding uneducated. This is something we do, and therefore it's something that we can try to stop doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it makes you racist and little ignorant. Do you care that a teacher from Boston does not pronounce their r's? No. Because when white people don't pronounce things correctly it is cute when black people do it, you think they are uneducated.

Not OP, but Yes, I think aks sound uneducated. And no, I don't think that white people mispronouncing or making grammatical errors is cute. I don't think any educated person would think it is cute. Where did you get that from?