On the chopping block: AAP Centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:right, let's all move - that seems like the sane solution.

I'm not the person you accuse of being a belly-acher, but we CANNOT move right now. I'm so glad that you can actually weather losing money, but a lot of us cannot. We bought several years ago and our income has gone down rather than up and the areas we would want to move to are more expensive than the one we currently live in (which actually is one of the cheapest SFH communities in the county).

I hate this "well, MY school isn't like that" nonsense. It definitely is an "I've got mine, screw everyone else" mentality. I have a GenEd child with an LD in one of the 2 schools that were mentioned above as a toxic environment for non-AAP children. While her teachers have been fantastic, the separation between the base GenEd and the AAP students is so blatant. Why should ANY child in our system be made to feel lesser? Just because YOUR child doesn't feel that way, it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

+100
As long as the AAP kids are happy, screw the Gen Ed students. My God, what would happen if there were no centers? The horror.

Aap parent here. What the hell do you want me to do? Tell me specifically.

No one's asking you to do anything. Many of us would like FCPS to discontinue centers and send all kids back to their base schools. It's very simple.

I disagree. When a GE parent rails against all AAP parents as looking out for our own and "screw the Gen Ed students" you are implying we aren't doing enough in the name of equality. "If there were no centers? The horror." That snipe wasn't directed at the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about taunting or bullying. It's just a pervasive feeling that the GenEd kids are an afterthought. That they are lesser. That they aren't worthy.

Exactly. I've never seen outright bullying - but exactly what PP said. It's a constant superiority complex on the part of the AAP kids (and parents) that is very obvious. Even some of the staff acts like AAP kids can do no wrong. It's ridiculous.

Please share the name of the school.

It's already been mentioned and I'm not going to name it again.

As pp said, there is LA or Colvin Run. Did we miss it? Is it another center? Certainly if it is schoolwide then your anonymous post isn't going to bring unwanted attention to the problem.

Except it's not. What happens when your center school loses more than 50% of the kids in 4 grades? FCPS is way too overcrowded to let those schools sit that under enrolled. FCPS would have to make up the difference from somewhere. And that means more boundary readjustments and rezoning, which always upsets someone (usually lots of someone's) and creates split feeder schools, which also upsets people. And, once you pull out the AAP center, get ready for your school's average SOL scores to drop, which makes your school's Great Schools number drop, which hurts your real estate values. Louise Archer GE parents may hate having the AAP kids at the school, but they don't complain about their Great Schools 9. Be careful what you ask for...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about taunting or bullying. It's just a pervasive feeling that the GenEd kids are an afterthought. That they are lesser. That they aren't worthy.

Exactly. I've never seen outright bullying - but exactly what PP said. It's a constant superiority complex on the part of the AAP kids (and parents) that is very obvious. Even some of the staff acts like AAP kids can do no wrong. It's ridiculous.

Please share the name of the school.

It's already been mentioned and I'm not going to name it again.

As pp said, there is LA or Colvin Run. Did we miss it? Is it another center? Certainly if it is schoolwide then your anonymous post isn't going to bring unwanted attention to the problem.

Except it's not. What happens when your center school loses more than 50% of the kids in 4 grades? FCPS is way too overcrowded to let those schools sit that under enrolled. FCPS would have to make up the difference from somewhere. And that means more boundary readjustments and rezoning, which always upsets someone (usually lots of someone's) and creates split feeder schools, which also upsets people. And, once you pull out the AAP center, get ready for your school's average SOL scores to drop, which makes your school's Great Schools number drop, which hurts your real estate values. Louise Archer GE parents may hate having the AAP kids at the school, but they don't complain about their Great Schools 9. Be careful what you ask for...

I'm pretty sure LA would do just fine on the SOLs without the center students. SES is the biggest driver of test scores. Vienna's median household income is between 105K--151K. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but it is.

[Anonymous]

^^^ that is, it's not as simple as saying just move AAP kids back to their base schools.

[Anonymous]

Redistricting is a given if you remove the centers, especially at the schools that are majority AAP. So is loss of specials teachers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about taunting or bullying. It's just a pervasive feeling that the GenEd kids are an afterthought. That they are lesser. That they aren't worthy.

Exactly. I've never seen outright bullying - but exactly what PP said. It's a constant superiority complex on the part of the AAP kids (and parents) that is very obvious. Even some of the staff acts like AAP kids can do no wrong. It's ridiculous.

Please share the name of the school.

It's already been mentioned and I'm not going to name it again.

As pp said, there is LA or Colvin Run. Did we miss it? Is it another center? Certainly if it is schoolwide then your anonymous post isn't going to bring unwanted attention to the problem.

Except it's not. What happens when your center school loses more than 50% of the kids in 4 grades? FCPS is way too overcrowded to let those schools sit that under enrolled. FCPS would have to make up the difference from somewhere. And that means more boundary readjustments and rezoning, which always upsets someone (usually lots of someone's) and creates split feeder schools, which also upsets people. And, once you pull out the AAP center, get ready for your school's average SOL scores to drop, which makes your school's Great Schools number drop, which hurts your real estate values. Louise Archer GE parents may hate having the AAP kids at the school, but they don't complain about their Great Schools 9. Be careful what you ask for...

I'm pretty sure LA would do just fine on the SOLs without the center students. SES is the biggest driver of test scores. Vienna's median household income is between 105K--151K. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but it is.

SES helps, and LA is in no danger of becoming Dogwood Elementary. But all those AAP kids taking 5th Grade math and the 4th grade SOLs don't hurt either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Redistricting is a given if you remove the centers, especially at the schools that are majority AAP. So is loss of specials teachers, etc.

+1

Lots of redistricting. They'd have to bring in a huge number of neighboring students to make up the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about taunting or bullying. It's just a pervasive feeling that the GenEd kids are an afterthought. That they are lesser. That they aren't worthy.

Exactly. I've never seen outright bullying - but exactly what PP said. It's a constant superiority complex on the part of the AAP kids (and parents) that is very obvious. Even some of the staff acts like AAP kids can do no wrong. It's ridiculous.

Please share the name of the school.

It's already been mentioned and I'm not going to name it again.

As pp said, there is LA or Colvin Run. Did we miss it? Is it another center? Certainly if it is schoolwide then your anonymous post isn't going to bring unwanted attention to the problem.

Except it's not. What happens when your center school loses more than 50% of the kids in 4 grades? FCPS is way too overcrowded to let those schools sit that under enrolled. FCPS would have to make up the difference from somewhere. And that means more boundary readjustments and rezoning, which always upsets someone (usually lots of someone's) and creates split feeder schools, which also upsets people. And, once you pull out the AAP center, get ready for your school's average SOL scores to drop, which makes your school's Great Schools number drop, which hurts your real estate values. Louise Archer GE parents may hate having the AAP kids at the school, but they don't complain about their Great Schools 9. Be careful what you ask for...

I'm pretty sure LA would do just fine on the SOLs without the center students. SES is the biggest driver of test scores. Vienna's median household income is between 105K--151K. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but it is.

SES helps, and LA is in no danger of becoming Dogwood Elementary. But all those AAP kids taking 5th Grade math and the 4th grade SOLs don't hurt either.

+1. DS just graduated from a local level IV program in a high SES school. There was 1 AAP classroom, and 4 Gen Ed. At awards day/ graduation, they gave out the Presidential Medals. The higher one requires a pass advanced on all ES SOLs and no grade lower than a 3. In DSs class, they awarded about 15-- 12 of them to the AAP class and 3-4 to the other 4 classes combined. You don't get into AAP by being bad at taking standardized tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redistricting is a given if you remove the centers, especially at the schools that are majority AAP. So is loss of specials teachers, etc.

+1

Lots of redistricting. They'd have to bring in a huge number of neighboring students to make up the difference.

No they wouldn't. Making center schools Local Level IVs would reduce overcrowding in a lot of places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redistricting is a given if you remove the centers, especially at the schools that are majority AAP. So is loss of specials teachers, etc.

+1

Lots of redistricting. They'd have to bring in a huge number of neighboring students to make up the difference.

No they wouldn't. Making center schools Local Level IVs would reduce overcrowding in a lot of places.

If your school is 60% AAP and you remove all the center kids, your school and surrounding schools will end up with redistricting to fill the empty spaces.

LLIV will not make a difference to the redistricting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts, I don't see a lot of AAP parents who are saying mean things about Gen Ed kids-- but boy is it clear that there are a lot of Gen Ed parents who are very vocal about not wanting AAP kids in their school. If you think your kids don't pick up on that attitude, you're wrong. Also, I've had kids in 3 FCPS schools at various levels, some AAP Centers and some LLIV a centers, and I have yet to run across a PTA a that isn't grateful for every parent volunteer-- AAP or Gen Ed. If you want a say in how your school is run, show up and volunteer, instead of griping on DCUM.

It's not a matter of not wanting AAP kids in our schools - but in many centers, AAP kids become the majority and the dynamic between them and the Gen Ed kids isn't healthy. It's not right for Gen Ed kids to be looked at as if they're somehow "less than" simply because they are not as well-represented as their AAP counterparts. AAP kids should never be a majority, at any school; they should be the exception to the rule.

In many Centers, AAP students are not the majority.

Yes, but in many they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts, I don't see a lot of AAP parents who are saying mean things about Gen Ed kids-- but boy is it clear that there are a lot of Gen Ed parents who are very vocal about not wanting AAP kids in their school. If you think your kids don't pick up on that attitude, you're wrong. Also, I've had kids in 3 FCPS schools at various levels, some AAP Centers and some LLIV a centers, and I have yet to run across a PTA a that isn't grateful for every parent volunteer-- AAP or Gen Ed. If you want a say in how your school is run, show up and volunteer, instead of griping on DCUM.

It's not a matter of not wanting AAP kids in our schools - but in many centers, AAP kids become the majority and the dynamic between them and the Gen Ed kids isn't healthy. It's not right for Gen Ed kids to be looked at as if they're somehow "less than" simply because they are not as well-represented as their AAP counterparts. AAP kids should never be a majority, at any school; they should be the exception to the rule.

In many Centers, AAP students are not the majority.

Yes, but in many they are.

Then take your chances on whoever redistricts in to replace them when you kick them to the curb. You deserve what you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not all about taunting or bullying. It's just a pervasive feeling that the GenEd kids are an afterthought. That they are lesser. That they aren't worthy.

That self esteem issue comes from home and what kind of attitudes parents put on their kids.

Oh, please. My kids are given love, support, and encouragement in everything they do. We as parents have no control over the bloated population of AAP kids at their school and the resulting air of superiority that runs rampant to segregated AAP classes outnumbering General Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. It's about time. It's a tremendous waste of money and resources.

"Base kid" is a common taunt at our center school.

The AAP students are so segregated and operate in their own rarefied air beginning as young as third grade.

Very much an "us v. them" mentality fueled by hyper-competitive parents.

Enough!

The ugly reality is that FCPS is back to ersatz segregation, with the "elites" getting preferential treatment and in some center schools, "base kids" are the minority.

Interesting to note that some of the FCPS center schools HAD to become centers to avoid permanent closure.

I'm sorry this was your and your child's experience at your one center school, but in six years of AAP center schools (ES and MS) this was nothing like the experience our kid, our family or the many other families we knew well through school ever had.

DCUM is full of people saying their center schools are hotbeds of "hyper-competitive parents." I knew only one family like that in six years (and the school at one point told those parents to cool their jets and wouldn't allow their kid to do some stuff the parents insisted was the kid's "right"--yes, administrators CAN say no to parents who are pushy).

And there are lots of depictions on DCUM of AAP kids as arrogant little jerks taunting other kids. Never saw it and I was in both our center schools -- a lot. There certainly may be some centers like that, but if that was the case at YOUR child's school, did you or other parents (of AAP students or general ed students) ever do anything about it? Come up with some ways for the kids to mix more? Point out to anyone in authority that teasing was taking place and needed to be addressed? Volunteer to make the school as a whole a more cooperative, positive environment?

Not the PP, but first of all - were your kids in AAP? If so, then of course you never saw this behavior. AAP parents and kids experience a wholly different atmosphere at center schools than Gen Ed kids and parents.

And as far as the parents "doing anything about it"? Beyond bringing up these situations repeatedly at PTA meetings and private conferences with administration, what, exactly are the parents supposed to do? I'm a very active volunteer at our school and see this kind of behavior happen often. This is an administrative issue. More specifically, this is an FCPS issue. Parents can complain, suggest, cajole, request - you name it. Ultimately, the responsibility falls on FCPS to rectify the imbalance they've created with center schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many parents of students at base schools do not realize that removing that gifted level of learner, lends for many opportunities for the next level of learner. The sense of being at the top of the class, moving up to leadership roles in the classroom and school. This builds confidence. Many if not most of the AAP kids are competitive by nature, academically ahead and quick learners, they also made up the majority if not the entire highest level reading/math groups etc. opportunities will be lost for base kids...

You've just illustrated the entire issue around Gen Ed kids who attend center schools. What happens to the "base kids" who attend centers? Imagine what it's like for them to be thrust into an environment where AAP kids "rule the roost," so to speak - mainly because of sheer numbers. How is it that the Gen Ed child is supposed to excel in a school like this?