Is the fervor for getting into 'top schools' fueled by insecurity and inequality?

[Anonymous]

OP here - yeah sorry about that, I should've been more specific and in the middle of the thread I did post that I did not mean applicants had esteem issues or were insecure in the psychological/emotional sense (nor did I mean to level that assertion to their parents).

I mean specifically only meant insecurity from an economic sense.

My hypothesis is that if income/wealth inequality was a lot lower, the middle class was growing, and there wasn't secular stagnation with real headwinds of technological substitution and globalization, that parents and students would not be as stressed over getting into 'top schools'.

Top schools are not a guarantee, but are a very good tool to use to get into the UPMC or higher.

As avenues to get into the UPMC (or higher) shrink, the value of getting a slot at a top school therefore rises.

That was what I meant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I vote for insecurity. Kids afraid to look less than perfect in the eyes of their peers, raised by parents afraid of their kids looking less than perfect in the eyes of their peers, along with social media causing 100% insecure kids who are afraid that, if it doesn't look good on Facebook, Twitter, etc., it is not worth doing/having/being seen there. I see no reason SES would have anything to do with it.

When it comes to placing blame, don't forget it's the execs I. The companies, law firms, etc, that create unreasonable job competitiveness that trickles down from the boardroom to the classroom.

This attitude did not start with the kids and not even their parents. The do or die comes from much higher up. Those that have the gold make the rules.

You are wrong. I have had very senior jobs at 2 corporations and a big law. I have decent degrees, but no ivy degrees. I did really well. Most of the people around me, including the hiring team, didn't look specifically for ivies. I currently hire a lot of people and definitely don't look for it. I think it's a fantasy that doesn't exist in real life. In my current role, I work with almost all of the heads of the large national companies (very few local large companies) and can't think of a single one who either went ivy (at least for undergrad - some did HBS), or care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is very elitist for some to say people who want to go to top schools are insecure. People have always gone to the IVYs. Only now that the masses discovered the advantage of going to a top school, it is suddenly the insecure thing to do.

Yes, Sergei Brin went to UMD and Larry Page went to Michigan State and they both went to public school. But the last how many presidents went to either Yale or Harvard? I say, do whatever it is that suits your family and your kdis. But don't judge others for what they want.

Exactly, if you want to be President or a Supreme Court Justice, you should probably go to an ivy league school. Anything else, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a dumb, shitty thread.

Why? I thought it was right on time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's absolutely fueled by insecurity and inequality. I push my kids because I want them to have choices in life. I feel trapped a lot of the time by my unimpressive educational pedigree. I have plenty of experience and talent, but I often get passed over in favor of people with the HYP connections and resume. I want better for my kids.

Maybe you are in one of the few fields where the pedigree of the degree matters, but if you are 10+ years out of school, your degree should not be holding you back. You should have a work history and accomplishments that outshine the name of the school where you got your degree. At 20 years out of school, I don't know how anyone with true talent being held back. No one at that point usually even asks.

Heck, with 2 of the most successful people I know, 1 is a high school drop out and the other has an associates degree from a community college. Talent, drive, ambition, a willingness to take chances, outgoing personalities paid off big in both of their cases.

Your comment makes me feel better, but I am in politics, and while I have been hired for plenty of jobs due to my talent, there have been other positions that I did not get because someone else with better connections also applied, and the connections won out over the resume. It's not so much the HYP degree that matters ... it's being plugged in to that world, and having the connections that go along with it. I want my kids to have access to those circles if they so desire it.

Good point. Furthermore, I think career tracks are becoming more pyramid-like/tracked, just like schooling is - In that to get the 'right' experiences 0-5 years out of school is immensely helped from the access conferred by going to the right schools and it is those aforementioned work experiences that then set you up for your 5-10 year out of school jobs, which then leads to other jobs so on and so forth.

This is 100% true in finance, consulting, law, and some other areas of gov.

So yes, PP is right, 10-years out you should not be held back by your degree(s) but you are held back by the experiences you get from 0-10, which are ever more calcified by things like where firms go to OCI, etc.

As a lawyer and former investment banker, your business school degree is more helpful than your undergrad. Now that law jobs are so competitive, it's important to go to a top school. However, if you aren't planning on going to a big firm, don't waste your money.