Is the fervor for getting into 'top schools' fueled by insecurity and inequality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the intense desire to get into top schools a reflection of society's insecurity and growing SES inequality?

I can't help but sense this is a large part of it.

I think it's the rat race. Your environment compells you to do better or as well as your perceived peers. Move away from DC insanity, and realize what it means to live LOL

+1 Living here (or NY or Boston) we get this insular idea of what it means to succeed and fail. Go further afield - even if only 2-3 hours away, and you start to realize this place is whack-a-doo and it's not to our benefit. We have more stress, less together time, less "me-time", less time in general, and we are "stuck" because of career/family etc. doing it. Far better to encourage our offspring to not get "stuck" - try a gap year, try other places, just don't do it because everyone else wants to do it, or just because you can.

My spouse and I both went to elite schools. Our kids are not academic superstars, just bright, well-rounded kids, and we ended up exploring many different schools with them during their college searches.

There's a great big world out there, with much to offer. Maybe we screwed up, and didn't help them maximize their GPAs and future opportunities. Or maybe we're the outliers, and they're now giving us the opportunity to offer them a less stressful future surrounded by more normal, grounded people than you typically find in this area.

After you've had the first few conversations with the "oh [long silence]....why did they decide to go THERE" types, it gets remarkably easy, and I find myself feeling better about their choices, and our own parenting, every day. But it is a bit of 10-Step program if you've been in this bubble for a long time.

Does your success allow them more freedom in this regard? I.E. the Steinbrenner kids went to average schools, but it doesn't matter because they were always going to get a 2 billion+ asset (The Yankees) handed to them to run as their job.

Not saying you have 2 billion to give your kids but does the social and economic capital that you and your spouse have amassed let your children 'be themselves' because the security blanket of your network and/or other opportunities you might be able to help provide act as a backstop incase your child(ren) regress in SES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the intense desire to get into top schools a reflection of society's insecurity and growing SES inequality?

I can't help but sense this is a large part of it.

I think it's the rat race. Your environment compells you to do better or as well as your perceived peers. Move away from DC insanity, and realize what it means to live LOL

+1 Living here (or NY or Boston) we get this insular idea of what it means to succeed and fail. Go further afield - even if only 2-3 hours away, and you start to realize this place is whack-a-doo and it's not to our benefit. We have more stress, less together time, less "me-time", less time in general, and we are "stuck" because of career/family etc. doing it. Far better to encourage our offspring to not get "stuck" - try a gap year, try other places, just don't do it because everyone else wants to do it, or just because you can.

My spouse and I both went to elite schools. Our kids are not academic superstars, just bright, well-rounded kids, and we ended up exploring many different schools with them during their college searches.

There's a great big world out there, with much to offer. Maybe we screwed up, and didn't help them maximize their GPAs and future opportunities. Or maybe we're the outliers, and they're now giving us the opportunity to offer them a less stressful future surrounded by more normal, grounded people than you typically find in this area.

After you've had the first few conversations with the "oh [long silence]....why did they decide to go THERE" types, it gets remarkably easy, and I find myself feeling better about their choices, and our own parenting, every day. But it is a bit of 10-Step program if you've been in this bubble for a long time.

+1000
We feel the same way and avoid the "why did they decide to go THERE"- types like the plague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope, not always. In DC's case it was fueled by the fact that this USNWR top 5 school was one of the very few to offer a combination of the desired majors.

But in your case, it's clearly about the ranking, LOL!

Umm, the question concerned "top schools" so my response concerned a "top school." Are you the comprehension-challenged poster that others above are also dealing with?

A person who was not obsessed with the ranking wouldn't have referenced USNWR or picked a number. And this isn't a context where that kind of precision gives you credibility -- it just reveals how you look at higher education.

Got it. You're the poster who's calling other posters "insecure". You're probably also the obsessive poster who comes on here all the time to boast about how you won't hire Ivy kids for your fabulous widget factory (right, we're so impressed). You are to be avoided. Bye!

Not either of those posters.

[Anonymous]

You sound very insecure and preachy OP. What? Community college for you or home-schooled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the intense desire to get into top schools a reflection of society's insecurity and growing SES inequality?

I can't help but sense this is a large part of it.

I think it's the rat race. Your environment compells you to do better or as well as your perceived peers. Move away from DC insanity, and realize what it means to live LOL

+1 Living here (or NY or Boston) we get this insular idea of what it means to succeed and fail. Go further afield - even if only 2-3 hours away, and you start to realize this place is whack-a-doo and it's not to our benefit. We have more stress, less together time, less "me-time", less time in general, and we are "stuck" because of career/family etc. doing it. Far better to encourage our offspring to not get "stuck" - try a gap year, try other places, just don't do it because everyone else wants to do it, or just because you can.

My spouse and I both went to elite schools. Our kids are not academic superstars, just bright, well-rounded kids, and we ended up exploring many different schools with them during their college searches.

There's a great big world out there, with much to offer. Maybe we screwed up, and didn't help them maximize their GPAs and future opportunities. Or maybe we're the outliers, and they're now giving us the opportunity to offer them a less stressful future surrounded by more normal, grounded people than you typically find in this area.

After you've had the first few conversations with the "oh [long silence]....why did they decide to go THERE" types, it gets remarkably easy, and I find myself feeling better about their choices, and our own parenting, every day. But it is a bit of 10-Step program if you've been in this bubble for a long time.

Does your success allow them more freedom in this regard? I.E. the Steinbrenner kids went to average schools, but it doesn't matter because they were always going to get a 2 billion+ asset (The Yankees) handed to them to run as their job.

Not saying you have 2 billion to give your kids but does the social and economic capital that you and your spouse have amassed let your children 'be themselves' because the security blanket of your network and/or other opportunities you might be able to help provide act as a backstop incase your child(ren) regress in SES?

I think that part of the stress is that most upper middle class parents think that the backstop they can provide their children is the best possible educational credentials. Most of these parents are salary-dependent themselves, so there may not be significant wealth left over for the next generation once the breadwinner(s) cease to earn. Depending on number of kids, longevity, medical care expenses, and other factors, there's only so long they can afford to support their adult children. So the kids have to become self-supporting and education is the seen as the means to that end in situations where there's no business that can be passed on. Meanwhile, the kids have grown up used to a particular income level and lifestyle, so their baseline expectation for what constitutes success/independence is often higher than what their (upwardly mobile) parents' was at the same age. Which may explain why we see so many grandparents funding private school tuitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is very elitist for some to say people who want to go to top schools are insecure. People have always gone to the IVYs. Only now that the masses discovered the advantage of going to a top school, it is suddenly the insecure thing to do.

Yes, Sergei Brin went to UMD and Larry Page went to Michigan State and they both went to public school. But the last how many presidents went to either Yale or Harvard? I say, do whatever it is that suits your family and your kdis. But don't judge others for what they want.

I don't think "elitist" means what you think it means, LOL.

Sure it does. Lol back at you.

So you think people who didn't go to top schools are considered the "elites?" Huh.

Read this again. "I think it is very elitist for some to say people who want to go to top schools are insecure." It is elitist to think only a selected few who should be applying to top schools and calling everyone else insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound very insecure and preachy OP. What? Community college for you or home-schooled?

I thought s/he sounded thoughtful and sociologically-inclined. Why this? why here? why now? is an interesting set of questions. And the kind of questions well-educated people are encouraged to ask. Instead of, say, just resorting to name calling and making personal attacks when they disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is growing inequality. People fear that if their kids don't make it to the top then they will be left out and unable to buy a decent home, find a spouse, and generally have a good life.

I went to MIT, Hopkins. Can't afford to buy. Loans limit my buying power too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope, not always. In DC's case it was fueled by the fact that this USNWR top 5 school was one of the very few to offer a combination of the desired majors.

But in your case, it's clearly about the ranking, LOL!

Umm, the question concerned "top schools" so my response concerned a "top school." Are you the comprehension-challenged poster that others above are also dealing with?

A person who was not obsessed with the ranking wouldn't have referenced USNWR or picked a number. And this isn't a context where that kind of precision gives you credibility -- it just reveals how you look at higher education.

Got it. You're the poster who's calling other posters "insecure". You're probably also the obsessive poster who comes on here all the time to boast about how you won't hire Ivy kids for your fabulous widget factory (right, we're so impressed). You are to be avoided. Bye!

Not either of those posters.

Well then, you're in good company with several other jerks on this thread. What's with the deliberate failure to understand that a thread title referring to "top colleges" would require a response that involves "top colleges"? Your reading comprehension isn't really that abysmal, is it? You're not really so jealous that you'd turn this into an interwebs fight, would you? Or maybe you simply have nothing of value to do with your days?

I took a few weeks off from DCUM and, boy, was it nice to get away from you and your ilk! Seems like it's time for another mini-vacay away from DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is growing inequality. People fear that if their kids don't make it to the top then they will be left out and unable to buy a decent home, find a spouse, and generally have a good life.

I went to MIT, Hopkins. Can't afford to buy. Loans limit my buying power too.

Well silly, you went to MIT. That's why

http://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-princeton-and-yale-2011-1

BTW, I think MIT is awesome and you must be ultra-smart. I have met dull hyp types, I have never met a dull MIT grad.

[Anonymous]

Some people are just competitive. Some are probably insecure, but others probably just like winning and hate losing. I don't understand those kind of people just as I don't understand the mindset of Olympic athletes, but I'm not going to begrudge anyone their right to pursue happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound very insecure and preachy OP. What? Community college for you or home-schooled?

OP here - no; I frequently post on the merits of top schools and the power of recruiting/oci into choice sectors for undergrads. Far from it.

I'm just curious if there is a correlation between the strong desire to go to one and broader inequality and economic insecurity/stagnation that we see in our society.

Not sure where you got 'preachy' from

[Anonymous]

Of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound very insecure and preachy OP. What? Community college for you or home-schooled?

OP here - no; I frequently post on the merits of top schools and the power of recruiting/oci into choice sectors for undergrads. Far from it.

I'm just curious if there is a correlation between the strong desire to go to one and broader inequality and economic insecurity/stagnation that we see in our society.

Not sure where you got 'preachy' from

Hi OP, your last post is more clearly. I think lots of us thought you meant to calling these applicants insecure. I think there is definitely something to the idea that the broad sense of economic inequality and insecurity and the increasing competition in college admission.

[Anonymous]

I meant more clear.