WES v Norwood

[Anonymous]

Cite. Sheesh, if you're going to beat up on lawyers at least use correct spelling.

[Anonymous]

Who is beatin up liars, I mean laawers?

[Anonymous]

Correction. I apologize for the typos or spelling.

[Anonymous]

All said, I have not heard anything positive about Sidwell's elementary school math. From what I have heard (teachers), it is no different than Norwood. But that is still no excuse for either of them.

[Anonymous]

Most of the big earners in the DC area do not use math or science to make their money. Hence, few of these schools are going to see the pressure to improve.
If we were out in Seattle WA, or Silicon Valley, the parents would be a bit more demanding, expecting improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've got a child who went to Norwood who was very strong in Math. They do accelerate kids but do it within their ability math groupings. It isn't until 7th grade that you might formally notice it with another name to the class (ie Algebra 1). When my child was in 4th grade, he was not using a 4th grade text but a higher level textbook. It doesn't do anybody any good, except the parents for bragging rights, to call a 4th grade group a fifth grade group. My child knew he was really strong at math and got challenged appropriately. He had a solid foundation (or so we were told by his high school teacher) which I think those who just think of math as a ladder don't get.

Where did your child go on to HS? If you do not want to be specific, could you at least describe the school?
Also, was he well prepared?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone with very deep training and expertise in math and science I do not see math as a ladder.
I glad to hear your child was appropriately challenged in Math all the way through at Norwood. That was not the case with our children. We took action.
They are challenged now. And they have a great fit just like your child.
No one here cares what you want to call your challenge...algebra1,2,3,4,5, Grade 4, 5, 8 or infinity.
The key is appropriate challenge along with problem solving skills.
It sounds like your child found a great fit with Norwood.
That's great. That's what education is all about, but don't presume that because Norwood was a great fit for your child in Math that it therefore is a great fit in Math for all children

Where did you find a better fit?

[Anonymous]

Highly gifted center in public elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Highly gifted center in public elementary school.

We're back to the circle ... how is the acceleration in the public school? We went through the gifted center in public (CSES), with a child in the top math group. In 4th, it was great - taught by the 5th grade teacher. In 5th, although in past years they've brought someone in for these kids, it is always by negotiation what they will do. The easiest is to ship them to the middle school for math, which is what my child did. There, the teacher was pretty mediocre, and it felt as though they were doing the same thing again. (This is IM, which someone referred to before.) So one year was great, another was like a holding pen until they got to MS. At Takoma Park, the kids advance very quickly from there; at other publics, the same quality cohort as at the magnet is just not there. So the ES magnet you may get a great year or two - and we would not trade it - but it may look quite different, and stack up differently against the private (getting back to the point of the thread) depending on where the child goes from there: local public MS, TPMS magnet, or private.

[Anonymous]

The elementary school (ES) gifted center we belong to will send qualified students to the local middle school for algebra 1. They provide instruction through IM in the ES center and do not send kids out to middle school for Math 6, 7, or IM. The majority of the kids in the center are working in one of these Math streams. In order to provide Algebra instruction in elementary school I understand, in MCPS, this must be taught be someone with the appropriate certificate in Algebra. Therefore, if there are teachers with the appropriate certification and sufficient warm bodies at an elementatry school there's probably no reason why this can't happen at the elementary site. But, one has to factor economies of scale and supply/demand issues. When the occasional ES kid leaves the ES center for the local Middle School to take Algebra and/or Honors Geometry -- these courses will go on their high school transcript. Thus, it's recommended that kids and their parents understand these implications (e.g., effect on high school grade point averages). For the few truly advanced and gifted elementary kids this is no burden or issue. My child is in the Math 7 stream now and from what we have experienced all the teachers appear to have fine reputations in Math instruction.

A select few middle school students with unique talents op for dual enrollment in local community college or high school (+/- credit) and stay in current grade level for logistical reasons. These arrangements are usually negotiated on a case by case basis. Some of these bright kids then take subject SAT exams or AP exams (there is no requirement to have been in an honors or AP class to take the exam) and use their high scores of 4 and 5 to place out of these courses and/or prerequisite required courses in high school ...or for their college admission transcripts. This gives them much more flexibility to pursue activities of their interest, expand their academic horizons into other fields, or really dig deeper into a particular area of interest.

Of course, most kids don't fit this bill. But, if one has a child that may, it's not a bad idea to know what the short and intermediate term options are to help guide decision making.

[Anonymous]

We're back to the circle ... how is the acceleration in the public school? We went through the gifted center in public (CSES), with a child in the top math group. In 4th, it was great - taught by the 5th grade teacher. In 5th, although in past years they've brought someone in for these kids, it is always by negotiation what they will do. The easiest is to ship them to the middle school for math, which is what my child did. There, the teacher was pretty mediocre, and it felt as though they were doing the same thing again. (This is IM, which someone referred to before.) So one year was great, another was like a holding pen until they got to MS. At Takoma Park, the kids advance very quickly from there; at other publics, the same quality cohort as at the magnet is just not there. So the ES magnet you may get a great year or two - and we would not trade it - but it may look quite different, and stack up differently against the private (getting back to the point of the thread) depending on where the child goes from there: local public MS, TPMS magnet, or private.

You are right in that the natural sequence from CSES would be TPMS magnet for the same quality peer group and instruction. There is no private in the area that matches the quality of the product that leaves the TPMS magnet for high school. These are the cream of the county crop that largely matriculate on the basis of an admission test (much like the publics in New York). Some students elect to return to their fine neighborhood middle schools however the experience is not as uniform and the student and parent need to take a more pro active role in tailoring a stimulating curriculum. This is where dual enrollment options, in community college or high school, or online options AoPS, EPGY, MIT (free), Yale (free) may come in for particular subjects (usually math and science). Still others opt to head for the private sector with their academic talents (after elementary or middle school magnets) to adorn the elite pedigree and social network.

[Anonymous]

We're back to the circle ... how is the acceleration in the public school? We went through the gifted center in public (CSES), with a child in the top math group. In 4th, it was great - taught by the 5th grade teacher. In 5th, although in past years they've brought someone in for these kids, it is always by negotiation what they will do. The easiest is to ship them to the middle school for math, which is what my child did. There, the teacher was pretty mediocre, and it felt as though they were doing the same thing again. (This is IM, which someone referred to before.) So one year was great, another was like a holding pen until they got to MS. At Takoma Park, the kids advance very quickly from there; at other publics, the same quality cohort as at the magnet is just not there. So the ES magnet you may get a great year or two - and we would not trade it - but it may look quite different, and stack up differently against the private (getting back to the point of the thread) depending on where the child goes from there: local public MS, TPMS magnet, or private.

This is useful information for us in that we are right behind you. From your experience it appears it would be important to vet the Algebra teachers at CJMS and/or Wootton ahead of time before entering into negotiations with the school for final placement if one's child will be bused out.

[Anonymous]

The trends are going away from advancing kids in math before 9th grade. The emphasis is going to be on a deeper knowlege of basic math for gifted students rather than new subject matter.

[Anonymous]

It's not aboout advancing or retarding, it's about getting a deeper kowledge of Math fundamentals. It's not about what grade you are in? I teach a few 7 th graders with much deeper knowledge about math than most 12 th graders. It's not about age or grade. It's how you go about teaching Math fundamentals early. The root cause of the problem is not too much advancing or to little retardation. Before the advancing craze our 12th graders were still lousy in Math. So red shirt all you want. That's not the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not aboout advancing or retarding, it's about getting a deeper kowledge of Math fundamentals. It's not about what grade you are in? I teach a few 7 th graders with much deeper knowledge about math than most 12 th graders. It's not about age or grade. It's how you go about teaching Math fundamentals early. The root cause of the problem is not too much advancing or to little retardation. Before the advancing craze our 12th graders were still lousy in Math. So red shirt all you want. That's not the answer.

Could you please clarify what you are saying?