Palisades: Safeway is closing

[Anonymous]

Don't worry. They'll put up a cool 7 story mixed use building with a Five Guys and second CVS on the ground floor. A neighborhood can never have too many. CVS carries a good supply of convenience foods.


Yes this type of development is everywhere now. Cheap construction, everything looks the same. Has been going on in Moco for years. Soon downtown Bethesda will be indistinguishable from Rockville town center, Gaithersburg Rio center and Germantown and Hyattsville "Arts" district (PG) - there will be a CVS, Five guys, Chipotle, Uncle julios, tara thai, ben & jerry's and buffalo wild wings on every corner. You "urban planners" out there are doing a terrible job IMO (not worth much), sorry! All these investment groups that own the properties only care about one thing $$$$$ and unfortunately only big chains have deep enough pockets to cover a lease.

Urban planner work 20-50 years out and do get into designing buildings etc. Urban planner work on developing the over all plan and hand it off to architects, design boards, etc.

[Anonymous]

Giant is a dump. I love the one in downtown silver spring where the restrooms are in the back next to all the meat and chicken and smells like SHIT constantly. The entire back of the store smells like someone took a big SHIT on the floor and left it there. Don't even get me started on the 4 corners Safeway. These places could close for good and they would be doing us all a favor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Don't worry. They'll put up a cool 7 story mixed use building with a Five Guys and second CVS on the ground floor. A neighborhood can never have too many. CVS carries a good supply of convenience foods.


Yes this type of development is everywhere now. Cheap construction, everything looks the same. Has been going on in Moco for years. Soon downtown Bethesda will be indistinguishable from Rockville town center, Gaithersburg Rio center and Germantown and Hyattsville "Arts" district (PG) - there will be a CVS, Five guys, Chipotle, Uncle julios, tara thai, ben & jerry's and buffalo wild wings on every corner. You "urban planners" out there are doing a terrible job IMO (not worth much), sorry! All these investment groups that own the properties only care about one thing $$$$$ and unfortunately only big chains have deep enough pockets to cover a lease.

Urban planner work 20-50 years out and do get into designing buildings etc. Urban planner work on developing the over all plan and hand it off to architects, design boards, etc.

sorry, their overall plan sucks then at least in MD.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Mary Cheh and David Catania to the rescue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mike-debonis/wp/2014/10/06/safeways-palisades-plans-at-issue-in-tuesday-d-c-council-vote/

They are introducing a bill on Tuesday to prohibit covenants forbidding grocery stores.

This is great, I hope it passes. Screw Safeway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Mary Cheh and David Catania to the rescue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mike-debonis/wp/2014/10/06/safeways-palisades-plans-at-issue-in-tuesday-d-c-council-vote/

They are introducing a bill on Tuesday to prohibit covenants forbidding grocery stores.

This is great, I hope it passes. Screw Safeway.

Yes, PLEASE let it pass. What a shitty thing to do to a neighborhood. Why in the hell these are legal to begin with - creating restrictions on whomever buys the property from you - is incomprehensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Don't worry. They'll put up a cool 7 story mixed use building with a Five Guys and second CVS on the ground floor. A neighborhood can never have too many. CVS carries a good supply of convenience foods.


Yes this type of development is everywhere now. Cheap construction, everything looks the same. Has been going on in Moco for years. Soon downtown Bethesda will be indistinguishable from Rockville town center, Gaithersburg Rio center and Germantown and Hyattsville "Arts" district (PG) - there will be a CVS, Five guys, Chipotle, Uncle julios, tara thai, ben & jerry's and buffalo wild wings on every corner. You "urban planners" out there are doing a terrible job IMO (not worth much), sorry! All these investment groups that own the properties only care about one thing $$$$$ and unfortunately only big chains have deep enough pockets to cover a lease.

Urban planner work 20-50 years out and do get into designing buildings etc. Urban planner work on developing the over all plan and hand it off to architects, design boards, etc.

Right, but urban planners have no ability to assess needs 50years out and they aren't developers. They take no risk and they have no business designing buildings.

Buy a building, take some risk and lease it out to a tenant with no credit then tell me how that works out when they don't pay the bills.

If city government was the least bit interested (which they aren't), in neighborhood aesthetic, they would backstop leases for smaller, no credit tenants and try to build small business.


As long as the city isn't interested in it, there is no reason to blame the developers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Don't worry. They'll put up a cool 7 story mixed use building with a Five Guys and second CVS on the ground floor. A neighborhood can never have too many. CVS carries a good supply of convenience foods.


Yes this type of development is everywhere now. Cheap construction, everything looks the same. Has been going on in Moco for years. Soon downtown Bethesda will be indistinguishable from Rockville town center, Gaithersburg Rio center and Germantown and Hyattsville "Arts" district (PG) - there will be a CVS, Five guys, Chipotle, Uncle julios, tara thai, ben & jerry's and buffalo wild wings on every corner. You "urban planners" out there are doing a terrible job IMO (not worth much), sorry! All these investment groups that own the properties only care about one thing $$$$$ and unfortunately only big chains have deep enough pockets to cover a lease.

Urban planner work 20-50 years out and do get into designing buildings etc. Urban planner work on developing the over all plan and hand it off to architects, design boards, etc.

Right, but urban planners have no ability to assess needs 50years out and they aren't developers. They take no risk and they have no business designing buildings.

Buy a building, take some risk and lease it out to a tenant with no credit then tell me how that works out when they don't pay the bills.

If city government was the least bit interested (which they aren't), in neighborhood aesthetic, they would backstop leases for smaller, no credit tenants and try to build small business.


As long as the city isn't interested in it, there is no reason to blame the developers.

You've touched on a dark side of the "mixed-use, smart-growth" projects that we've seen recently in Washington and the surrounding area. One reason that they start to seem indistiguishable from one another is that their financial investors all want the same things: deep-pocketed parties with strong credit ratings to sign long term leases. This basically means large retailers like CVS, national banks and restaurant chains. Independently owned businesses are just considered more risky and are not as desirable when the initial backers try to flip the project. So when a building is razed for a new mixed use project, the local, independent restaurants and shops move out and typically move on, to be replaced when the development is completed by the same old corporate retailer, financial services and restaurant groups.

[Anonymous]

It has nothing to do with the project being flipped.

If you owned a rental condo and you had two choices for a tenant, which one would you choose.

1. Tenant #1 has never rented before, is new to the area, has no verifiable source of income other than some cash in his bank account, as well as his new job and the rent is right at his max budget. He also wants your help paying for some new carpet and hardwood that he wants. The other people in the building like him because he plays the guitar and makes a mean beef stew on the weekends.

2. Tenant #3 has a long rental history, has been at the same job for 10 years and makes 100 times what it costs to rent the place. He will also pay you some money to help you finish off the place the way he likes it. the other tenants could care less about this guy - he isn't that exciting


Keep in mind, you have a mortgage on the property and any rent you get is intended to cover the mortgage. You have one or two month's extra saved up just in case, but that's it.

You are now a developer. Choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has nothing to do with the project being flipped.

If you owned a rental condo and you had two choices for a tenant, which one would you choose.

1. Tenant #1 has never rented before, is new to the area, has no verifiable source of income other than some cash in his bank account, as well as his new job and the rent is right at his max budget. He also wants your help paying for some new carpet and hardwood that he wants. The other people in the building like him because he plays the guitar and makes a mean beef stew on the weekends.

2. Tenant #3 has a long rental history, has been at the same job for 10 years and makes 100 times what it costs to rent the place. He will also pay you some money to help you finish off the place the way he likes it. the other tenants could care less about this guy - he isn't that exciting


Keep in mind, you have a mortgage on the property and any rent you get is intended to cover the mortgage. You have one or two month's extra saved up just in case, but that's it.

You are now a developer. Choose.

The investors and the developer make perfectly rational choices. The fact is, though, that they can result in uninteresting and sometimes downright shitty results, for the community when local independent businesses have to move away. A reminder, if one were needed, that "smart growth" doesn't always yield smart results.

[Anonymous]

Does this mean no more Starbucks as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does this mean no more Starbucks as well?

No.

Everybody wants a Starbucks. Chain stores are fine when they suit them.

[Anonymous]

Palisades could certainly use a Pottery Barn, a Five Guys and a Cheesecake Factory.

[Anonymous]

I take umbrage at the Chipotle jabs. I like me some Chipotle. Every neighborhood should have one. Now Panera -- that signals urban decay to me. That and a Payless shoe store next to a check cashing joint.

[Anonymous]

Don't besmirch Panera. Very kid friendly, with organic (albeit Horizon) milk.

CEO is progressive and community-oriented. If you've never read about [a href="http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/12/25/panera-cares-cafe-boston-let-you-pay-full-price-more-than-that-less-you-can-afford-food/LjPmcufA44iwMNdX2kywhI/story.html"]Panera Cares stores[/a], do so now. (Hint: they allow all patrons to pay what they want. This is to lessen the stigma for poor people who cannot afford to pay the suggested price.)

Article linked: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/12/25/panera-cares-cafe-boston-let-you-pay-full-price-more-than-that-less-you-can-afford-food/LjPmcufA44iwMNdX2kywhI/story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've touched on a dark side of the "mixed-use, smart-growth" projects that we've seen recently in Washington and the surrounding area. One reason that they start to seem indistiguishable from one another is that their financial investors all want the same things: deep-pocketed parties with strong credit ratings to sign long term leases. This basically means large retailers like CVS, national banks and restaurant chains. Independently owned businesses are just considered more risky and are not as desirable when the initial backers try to flip the project. So when a building is razed for a new mixed use project, the local, independent restaurants and shops move out and typically move on, to be replaced when the development is completed by the same old corporate retailer, financial services and restaurant groups.

Have you been to Mosaic district? Very interesting mix of retailers - if not many indies, heavily local chains,some fairly quirky. Ditto for Bethesda Row. They will get more indies as the projects age.

Note that the issue of indie retailers moving OUT is only an issue when the project is built where a strip of old retail had existed (and was viable.) Many new mixed use developments are built on old parking lots, industrial sites, etc - or on old shopping centers that had nothing but a supermarket, or had a couple of businesses that were barely hanging on (in some places car title lenders and stuff like that)